Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: CoolZidane on July 02, 2005, 02:47:31 PM

Title: Getting Help on Charas
Post by: CoolZidane on July 02, 2005, 02:47:31 PM
Am I the only one who notices it is hard to get help on Charas?

I see quite a few game threads with hardly any posts on it, most of which are of people who are just complimenting the story or giving story advice. However, when help is asked, the thread becomes a dead zone.

Meanwhile, the fangame threads commonly excel to multiple pages in a matter of days. While this is probably because the resources are easier to get, it makes the creators of original plots lose motivation due to the lack of help.

So many games with good, exciting, and original plots are never finished because everyone is too busy gathering everything for a game based on something we've seen before.

Who agrees?

(If this is in the wrong place, please move it)
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Post by: blackskullwarlock on July 02, 2005, 02:54:45 PM
Agree.

It's hard to get help since most of the spriters on Charas have game of their own and since they can sprite their own characters, their games proceed faster than others thus draining any time to help the others. Some people just request a ridiculous amount of stuff and are almost going mad after one day that no one replyed. In those cases, the spriters usually just ignore them for requesting way too much.

I do take requests from time to time, just not directly from the forums + I limit the requests to friends-only. I must be one of the few that works that way, to be honest.

People might get help if they were requesting fewer stuff in a less n00bish manner. Nothing worst than requesting a huge list and adding gun smileys and the likes.
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Post by: Drace on July 02, 2005, 03:20:26 PM
Yes, it's hard to get help. That's one of the reason I quit RPGmaking.
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Post by: Dragonium on July 02, 2005, 03:26:26 PM
I agree too. I'm sick of asking a question in my thread, and then it being ignored because everyone cares about a fangame.

It's not just the fangames either. I'll name no names, but just because a member is more popular than another, doesn't mean you should praise everything the first does, and critique everything done by the second.

Example:

I see various graphics made by a certain spriter (Who I won't name). They are good, yes, and everyone says "Wow, that's amazing, you rock!", and stuff like that. However, when another member, who is less popular does work of the same standard, we get "Well, it's good, but it's not great. Do more work on it".

I mean, what is this, a popularity contest? No. So why can't we just throw away our differences, and all help each other with our games?
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Post by: blackskullwarlock on July 02, 2005, 03:34:08 PM
Dragonium, you might not say names but I obviously know who you are talking about and I don't think it's really cool to say such things...

And have you ever considered that some artist are better than others? That some really deserve compliments and other really need to work harder?
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Post by: Almeidaboo on July 02, 2005, 04:18:40 PM
Itps not time to care about the names thing...the problem is really boring. Doesnīt affect me since I hardly request anything, what makes me angrier is that idea that a game that uses RPT sucks. That brings the whole problem...
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Post by: InsaneJP on July 02, 2005, 04:48:48 PM
hey i agree with you guys....i see alot of people....like dragonium and even Leon 1990 requesting things and people just ignore it...ive had my share of requests ignored and i know how it feels....when i have time to help people i help them out as long as i have time....cuz like you guys also sed...people do have their own games to make to
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Post by: Dragonium on July 02, 2005, 04:59:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by blackskullwarlock
And have you ever considered that some artist are better than others? That some really deserve compliments and other really need to work harder?


I'd like to say that I was not talking about myself. It's not sour grapes at all. So I hardly think it's fair to make assumptions.

And what about when a member sees someone else's work, and in admiration tries to do their own, works as hard as they can and does their very best, only for some more experienced member to shatter their aspirations by saying "You obviously didn't try at all, go back and work harder"? Seriously, would you like that to happen to you?

I know that some artists are better than others, but imagine a spriter producing a good piece of work without really putting much effort into it, and a newbie to spriting trying their very best and making something not quite as good. Who there deserves more praise?

(By the way, I'm speaking generally, not personally)

And Insane, you're right. The way people respond to requests at the moment is way out of whack.
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Post by: Ace of Spades on July 02, 2005, 05:03:10 PM
If I can, I always try to help with a request, but I'm hardly good at anything, and I have my game to work on. I used to do map requests, but I stopped because I saw that many people were making a game, I made a map for that game, and then a few months later, they scrap that game. So I just got sick of doing map requests for the public, now if I do fulfil a request, it's for one of my friends. It's times like these that make me feel happy I got all of my requests done a while ago. But I do know what you're talking about, and it does suck for other members. I think that's one of the main things that goes through a request fulfiller's head though, nowadays. "In my mind, do I feel that this person will finish their game?" I know that's how I felt after awhile doing map requests.
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Post by: blackskullwarlock on July 02, 2005, 05:07:04 PM
That's the way things are. Some are talented, some are not. Sometimes your best is not enough and all you've got to do is keep trying. If you post your first sprite on the forum to get opinions and people end up saying it sucks, that's not our problem. They shouldn't have post in the first place if they can't take critics.

As far as requests are concerned, time and will to work are two things most spriters are lacking since most, if not all, have their own game. If you can't get your requests done and complain about how long it takes, might as well start learning how to sprite because you probably have the time to learn by the time your request gets done, assume it does.
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Post by: InsaneJP on July 02, 2005, 05:09:38 PM
yea theres alot of people that still DO help people but now they can only do it on their free time and sometimes.....(like the character creators....and i kno this personally about myself)....people cant keep up with all the requests too....if everyone did every request you would have people like me Xjericho Ghostclown Saikar and many other....doing everything for everyones game...then no one would learn to do anything for themselves
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Post by: Drace on July 02, 2005, 05:38:56 PM
I would help people if I could actually do anything good or find the time for it.
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on July 02, 2005, 05:42:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by blackskullwarlock
That's the way things are. Some are talented, some are not. Sometimes your best is not enough and all you've got to do is keep trying. If you post your first sprite on the forum to get opinions and people end up saying it sucks, that's not our problem. They shouldn't have post in the first place if they can't take critics.

Exactly. That's always bugged me when people think its a work of genius, get told it sucks, and then proceed to scream and yell. But If I'm even going to attempt to do anything fro someone they have to not get on my nerves. There are a lot of people (none here) the really bug the hell outta me, so I just won't do their request.
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Post by: Rune_of_Punishment on July 02, 2005, 06:18:11 PM
Dude, I wish my game thread would get flamed all to hell. I mean, my game sucks. It's like, of poor quality. Why do I get praised when others don't?
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on July 02, 2005, 06:24:13 PM
It's because you're respected. In my opinion though if someone respects you they should be honest instead of buttering it up.
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Post by: Robotam on July 02, 2005, 07:00:06 PM
Geez.. I so doesn't agree to any of this.. It's not about being popular or not. It's about knowing them and having they as your friends, I have never got help from someone I haven't talked to. The people who helps me is either my friends or huge fans.
But the huge fans would probably do anything to help anyone.

No one is made to help you, they have their own bussiness and their own choices. If you don't get help here then go to another place or try to get to know the guy before bombing him/her with requests.

..But yeah, there is something I agree about.. that if the admins or moderators would make a crappy charset some people would surely say it's good anyway, but that's the way it's always been and will always be.... sadly.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 02, 2005, 08:01:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Robotam
Geez.. I so doesn't agree to any of this.. It's not about being popular or not. It's about knowing them and having they as your friends, I have never got help from someone I haven't talked to. The people who helps me is either my friends or huge fans.
But the huge fans would probably do anything to help anyone.

No one is made to help you, they have their own bussiness and their own choices. If you don't get help here then go to another place or try to get to know the guy before bombing him/her with requests.

..But yeah, there is something I agree about.. that if the admins or moderators would make a crappy charset some people would surely say it's good anyway, but that's the way it's always been and will always be.... sadly.


Amen. I mostly do requests from people who know how to ask them.
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Post by: Tomi on July 02, 2005, 08:44:58 PM
 
Quote

Originally posted by Ace of Spades
If I can, I always try to help with a request, but I'm hardly good at anything, and I have my game to work on. I used to do map requests, but I stopped because I saw that many people were making a game, I made a map for that game, and then a few months later, they scrap that game. So I just got sick of doing map requests for the public, now if I do fulfil a request, it's for one of my friends. It's times like these that make me feel happy I got all of my requests done a while ago. But I do know what you're talking about, and it does suck for other members. I think that's one of the main things that goes through a request fulfiller's head though, nowadays. "In my mind, do I feel that this person will finish their game?" I know that's how I felt after awhile doing map requests.

Thats how I feel a lot of the time.  Sometimes I'll do poses for someone because I'm bored and/or I want to practice.  Plus, I have only posted one, maybe two, requests on charas and have done everything else myself.  And that makes me think that maybe, just maybe someone who is requesting is being lazy and wants everyone to make their game for them. (I know most the time that is not the case, but still)
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Post by: Lighting Half Dozen on July 02, 2005, 08:56:25 PM
I Agree, I've had This many awsomre ideas for games: }---------------------------------------------------------------{

But everytime i just never get enough help. There should be like a sub charas the focuses on projects only.
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Post by: WarxePB on July 02, 2005, 09:10:38 PM
If I could say one thing to all the people who request help on the Requests board, I would say "Don't rely on other people too much. Learn to help yourself."
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Post by: Dragonium on July 02, 2005, 09:19:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Tomi

Thats how I feel a lot of the time.  Sometimes I'll do poses for someone because I'm bored and/or I want to practice.  Plus, I have only posted one, maybe two, requests on charas and have done everything else myself.  And that makes me think that maybe, just maybe someone who is requesting is being lazy and wants everyone to make their game for them. (I know most the time that is not the case, but still)


True, true. It's okay if a person makes a request or two, because sometimes, a certain pose or charset, no matter how simple it might seem, just becomes impossible. In those circumstances, you can either request, or go without, and the former's usually the better option.

But people who spam up the request thread with 20 requests at once, that's when we have to say "NO".
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Post by: WarxePB on July 02, 2005, 09:24:11 PM
"I can't do it myself" is no excuse, unless you've honestly tried and failed. You all complain that no one wants to help you; have you actually tried it yourself? Even a crappy 5-color sprite is better than anything you get on the request board because you did it yourself.
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Post by: BlackIceAdept on July 02, 2005, 09:32:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
If I could say one thing to all the people who request help on the Requests board, I would say "Don't rely on other people too much. Learn to help yourself."


I agree I'm sick of requesting I'm just uses whats already made now and tweaking it a little... other than that its not that hard to customize a few resources...
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 02, 2005, 09:34:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
Even a crappy 5-color sprite is better than anything you get on the request board because you did it yourself.


And that my friends, is a spriter's proclamation.
Amen.
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Post by: CoolZidane on July 02, 2005, 09:35:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
"I can't do it myself" is no excuse, unless you've honestly tried and failed. You all complain that no one wants to help you; have you actually tried it yourself? Even a crappy 5-color sprite is better than anything you get on the request board because you did it yourself.


Yes. I have tried repeatedly to make sprites. The problem is that I fail to make anything other than a mess of pixels.

Look at it this way: People aren't able to do everything themselves. Some people make excellent battlecharsets, but completely suck when it comes to facesets. Some people make good facesets, yet music is a challenge to them.

It's like actors in a movie. You need more than one to make it work. And not just more than one, you need people with varying areas of expertise. Just like you need people who are good with graphics, story, or music, you need people who can play comedic, serious, and casual. Each one needs to be there for it to work.
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Post by: WarxePB on July 02, 2005, 09:43:03 PM
Quote
CoolZidane
Yes. I have tried repeatedly to make sprites. The problem is that I fail to make anything other than a mess of pixels.


Did you even read what I said? Anything you make yourself is infinitely better than something you request. Even if your graphics suck, people will still respect you for trying. Even if your music is off-tune, people will still respect you for taking the time to compose it rather than requesting it. And those who say otherwise don't deserve to be saying anything, because they cannot recognize effort.

EDIT: CoolZidane, I've never actually seen any of your spriting work. If you can show me that you're a hopeless spriter that can't do anything at all, then I might ease up on you.
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Post by: CoolZidane on July 02, 2005, 09:51:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
quote:
CoolZidane
Yes. I have tried repeatedly to make sprites. The problem is that I fail to make anything other than a mess of pixels.


Did you even read what I said? Anything you make yourself is infinitely better than something you request. Even if your graphics suck, people will still respect you for trying. Even if your music is off-tune, people will still respect you for taking the time to compose it rather than requesting it. And those who say otherwise don't deserve to be saying anything, because they cannot recognize effort.


So you're saying you would be perfectly fine if I made a game where the main character was shapeless mass of pixels and the battlecharsets were nothing because that's the best I can do?
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 02, 2005, 09:54:39 PM
People need motivation to help others, beleive it or not.
If anyone else helps someone in need there's motivation for that help being handed.
Sometimes requests made have so little motivation involved people tend to ignore them.

Graphics aren't everything.
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Post by: WarxePB on July 02, 2005, 10:04:25 PM
Quote
CoolZidane
So you're saying you would be perfectly fine if I made a game where the main character was shapeless mass of pixels and the battlecharsets were nothing because that's the best I can do?


Why do you care so much about graphics anyways? Do you think that excellent graphics will make up for every other shortcoming?


And to answer your question, if the plot was good, I would have no problem playing it.
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Post by: blackskullwarlock on July 02, 2005, 10:22:44 PM
People tend to go berserk when they see the slightest RTP char or tileset. That explains the huge requests for custom graphics.
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Post by: WarxePB on July 02, 2005, 10:31:15 PM
If people don't lke the graphics, then they can choose not to play the game. But a game shouldn't be judged on its graphics alone; that's my point.
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Post by: blackskullwarlock on July 02, 2005, 10:33:48 PM
I agree with what you say but that's how things are. RTP = Big evil demon. I honestly have nothing against it so long as it is used properly.
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Post by: Ace of Spades on July 02, 2005, 10:55:19 PM
One thing that people need to understand is that they want someone else to do something for THEM. If someone doesn't want to do something for YOU, that doesn't mean you whine about it. I've had my own experience with this, and finally slapped myself in the face and said "Hey! You're asking someone else for help, so if they want to help you, it's their decision." Here's an example of what requesting is compared to.

Kid: Dad, can I get this toy?
Dad: No.
Kid: But Dad, I really really want this toy...
Dad: Sorry son, but not today.
Kid: BUT DAD I REALLY REALLY WANT THIS TOY!! REALLY REALLY BADLY!!!
Dad: Don't raise your voice to me...
Kid: BUT I REALLY WANT THIS TOY!!! DAD!!!! DAD!!!! I WANT THIS TOY!!!!!!!!!!
Dad: Alright, not only are you not getting the toy, but you're grounded.
Kid: *cries and whines a lot*

The way this is related to requests, is the kid is asking his dad for something, just as someone who requests, is asking someone else for something. Now, obviously the requester doesn't get grounded, but instead, gets a "mark" on his name, and request fulfillers will know how he acts, and won't do his request, or future requests, which is similar in a way to, "you're not getting the toy AND you're grounded."
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Post by: Tomi on July 02, 2005, 11:04:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ace of Spades
One thing that people need to understand is that they want someone else to do something for THEM. If someone doesn't want to do something for YOU, that doesn't mean you whine about it. I've had my own experience with this, and finally slapped myself in the face and said "Hey! You're asking someone else for help, so if they want to help you, it's their decision." Here's an example of what requesting is compared to.

Kid: Dad, can I get this toy?
Dad: No.
Kid: But Dad, I really really want this toy...
Dad: Sorry son, but not today.
Kid: BUT DAD I REALLY REALLY WANT THIS TOY!! REALLY REALLY BADLY!!!
Dad: Don't raise your voice to me...
Kid: BUT I REALLY WANT THIS TOY!!! DAD!!!! DAD!!!! I WANT THIS TOY!!!!!!!!!!
Dad: Alright, not only are you not getting the toy, but you're grounded.
Kid: *cries and whines a lot*

The way this is related to requests, is the kid is asking his dad for something, just as someone who requests, is asking someone else for something. Now, obviously the requester doesn't get grounded, but instead, gets a "mark" on his name, and request fulfillers will know how he acts, and won't do his request, or future requests, which is similar in a way to, "you're not getting the toy AND you're grounded."


Great analogy Ace.  I've also had people who I had never heard of or met before ask me to do a request that was really hard.  Its like randomly walking up to someone and asking for enough money to buy a PSP.


 
Quote
Originally posted by CoolZidane
So you're saying you would be perfectly fine if I made a game where the main character was shapeless mass of pixels and the battlecharsets were nothing because that's the best I can do?

Thats why Alex made the generators. :D
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Post by: coasterkrazy on July 02, 2005, 11:12:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
If people don't lke the graphics, then they can choose not to play the game. But a game shouldn't be judged on its graphics alone; that's my point.


I completely agree with that. Graphics don't make or break a game. It's important to look at the game as a whole, mainly asking yourself, "Is this game enjoyable?" That is what truly determines the quality of a game.

As for asking for help, I agree that when you ask for help, not to complain because no one is giving it to you. It isn't just because you asked, someone will come to service you. Ace made a great analogy.

And to answer CoolZidane's question, I would play any game compelling to play, even if there were no graphics at all. Why do you think people enjoy text-based games?
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Post by: Ace of Spades on July 02, 2005, 11:21:07 PM
Graphics don't really matter to me. I mean, look at the original Mario. Crappy graphics, but amazing game.
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Post by: blackskullwarlock on July 03, 2005, 12:50:17 AM
Graphics might not matter to you but they sure as hell matters to the rest of the world! Most of my friends hate very good games because of bad graphics...including the classics like Donkey Kong and Mario Bros.
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Post by: GhostClown on July 03, 2005, 12:50:48 AM
Maybe if you guy's start practicing instead of requesting, you'll be able to sprite for your own game aswell..  :|

I understand getting some help, but you can't expect it all..
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Post by: coasterkrazy on July 03, 2005, 12:58:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by blackskullwarlock
Graphics might not matter to you but they sure as hell matters to the rest of the world! Most of my friends hate very good games because of bad graphics...including the classics like Donkey Kong and Mario Bros.


I know a lot of people who are like that.
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on July 03, 2005, 01:34:36 AM
Thats pretty bad to me. I know a guy that refuses to play any gamecube game because he doesnt think they are good as PS2 or XBOX. But he looks at the maximum system compatability for this, not the games. He doesn't realize, rarely do PS2, XBOX games use the ful power of it. That close mindedness bugs the hell outta me.
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Post by: InsaneJP on July 03, 2005, 02:20:18 AM
wow this thread got alot of attention while i was away....well i see everyones points of view and technically everyone is right in their own way....yes there are people that spam up the place with requests and yes alot of people help people more once they get to know them....thats what i do most of time too....and yes if your going to ask for a request you need to know how to ask and finally YES people need to stop requestsing before they try doing it themselves...i bet alot of these people who request are very capable of makin a decent character or somthing that they want....who said it had to be perfect??......To help people with sprite battle character requests i made a few templates so people could learn how to do it themselves and other templates are not hard to find.....to tell you the truth im thinking of making a thread that im gunna teach people how to make a character from a naked body....just so they can see what they can do....if anyone thinks i shouldnt tell me soon before i make the thread
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 03, 2005, 03:32:48 AM
This calls for some spriting tutorials. *plans to*
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Post by: InsaneJP on July 03, 2005, 03:38:46 AM
Kijuki....im way ahead of you lol im in the process of showing them how to make a character....im doing the screenshots now i already have like 16 !
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Post by: Bobb on July 03, 2005, 03:47:24 AM
I agree with alot of you. If I can I always try...It's just I'm not very good. lol. But I usually do my best to help.
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Post by: PyroAlchemist on July 03, 2005, 05:00:20 AM
I'm am currently making myself useful and practising my chara graphics and all of that. I'd be glad to help anyone in any way I could though. I can't guarante much but I try. Hmm I think I should work on my spelling though I have no idea if a couple of these things are spelled right.
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Post by: smokey_locs2002 on July 03, 2005, 05:05:00 AM
You need help, I'll help you but I won't make **** for you. I'm all about the Give a man a fish you feed him for a day Teach him to fish and you feed him for life..
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 03, 2005, 05:20:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by smokey_locs2002
You need help, I'll help you but I won't make **** for you. I'm all about the Give a man a fish you feed him for a day Teach him to fish and you feed him for life..


Very..umm, well said :D XP
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 03, 2005, 11:48:02 AM
Like Insane JP said a few pages back, dragonium and myself (Linkforce and RPGLORD too) are ALWAYS ignored when it comes to requests.
this annoys me because we (Mostly RPGLORD with his midis) do as many requests as we possibly can (I do mine over MSN) and we are still ignored -_-''

of course, there IS  good side to this, Dragonium and I have become quite adept spriters, even if I do say so myself, RPGLORD can make extraordinary midis, and Linkforce....... ok forget Linkforce -_-''
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Post by: Dragonium on July 03, 2005, 12:03:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Leon_1990
Like Insane JP said a few pages back, dragonium and myself (Linkforce and RPGLORD too) are ALWAYS ignored when it comes to requests.
this annoys me because we (Mostly RPGLORD with his midis) do as many requests as we possibly can (I do mine over MSN) and we are still ignored -_-''

of course, there IS  good side to this, Dragonium and I have become quite adept spriters, even if I do say so myself, RPGLORD can make extraordinary midis, and Linkforce....... ok forget Linkforce -_-''


Right, we do always get ignored. As you said, it's not too bad. I actually prefer doing things myself now, simply because that way I can get it exactly how I want it. It's only time to make a request when you've tried, and failed to do it.

Maybe we could have a thing where a repeat-requester should show us the best they can do, before we fulfill the request.

(And Linkforce can sprite and recolour well, too)
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Post by: Al~Len on July 03, 2005, 07:11:44 PM
But  Leon, do you really think that complaining about being ignored is really going to help the fact?.. Cause, I get annoyed sometimes by those who tend to whine about stuff like this.. *shrugs*..


It may be that people just get overwhelmed by the vast amount of requests, or the fact that people keep coming back with ones that are just too tedious..
All I know is I simply don't have the time to do a lot of request, but I do try to make time to do so since doing work for one person in particular can get bothersome and what not at times.


I agree with what Dragonium said about doing stuff yourself, cause you yourself are the only one who can be really positive on what you want the outcome to really be like.
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Post by: BlackIceAdept on July 03, 2005, 07:28:00 PM
...this is getting old...fast...

but anyways I feel for you guys thats why I've started to do things myself even if they are recolors/edits, and sigs/titles...better than nothing...

now that I think about it...a game made of random masses might be interesting...stupid, but interesting...
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Post by: smokey_locs2002 on July 03, 2005, 07:59:21 PM
I think it's funny when people get mad becasue I won't make something for them. If you don't to then you don't want to you know what's beatiful about making sprites and such for peeps? You can discriminate. lol
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Post by: Moosetroop11 on July 03, 2005, 08:03:19 PM
I generally don't request. That Robot Tomi made was an exception, because I couldn't make it to save my life, but often I've made things I can't find for my game, even though I'm not very good.

After all, at the end of the day, It's your game, and you're not gonna make money out of it or anything :p
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 03, 2005, 08:29:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Al~Len
But  Leon, do you really think that complaining about being ignored is really going to help the fact?.. Cause, I get annoyed sometimes by those who tend to whine about stuff like this.. *shrugs*..


Its not meant to be a complaint...
sorry if it sounded that way.

I know how hard it is to make time for requests (all to well -_-)
I'm mostly talking about people who have NEVER done a request during thier time at charas. I'm sure you will agree that these "freeloaders" are annoying.
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Post by: Drace on July 03, 2005, 08:40:57 PM
These "FREELOADERS" are anoying in your opinion. Some people hang around for fun, some hang around to just get what they need.

And no, I'm not talking about myself cause I've done some requests a while back.
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 03, 2005, 08:50:50 PM
                                        "freeloaders"

-my definition-
= members that request a lot , but do not even attempt to help others. =
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Post by: RPG LORD on July 03, 2005, 09:01:41 PM
You know what? When I get my computer back, I'll probably ignore people's requests for me until they do something for me first. I'm sick of people ignoring me. They've as good as always ignored me.
As I said once before, Charas needs balance between requests and the ones who do them.
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Post by: Razor on July 03, 2005, 10:13:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kijuki_Magazaki
Quote
Originally posted by smokey_locs2002
You need help, I'll help you but I won't make **** for you. I'm all about the Give a man a fish you feed him for a day Teach him to fish and you feed him for life..


Very..umm, well said :D XP


A more accurate statement with the same truth

Light a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Post by: BlackIceAdept on July 03, 2005, 10:18:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Razor
Light a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


...nice... >:
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Post by: smokey_locs2002 on July 04, 2005, 03:53:53 AM
You've all seen Full Metal Alchemist, right? or heard of it well all their fake alchemy is based on a principle.

"In order to gain something in life you must present something of equal value" goes something like that, anyways. This doesn't mean "If I make a sprite for you you make a song for me" I've noticed those who are more helpful and more simple request get their request done alot faster. (a lot is  words.. <.<) So that could be the problem and the fact that everyone wants is Battle Sprites, which is very hard to do. I've done a couple of them, it's hard, (accept with RPG maker XP). Soo once again if you're tired or being "ignored" then do what  I did and find the fishing pole and FISH!.
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Post by: Rune_of_Punishment on July 04, 2005, 04:01:09 AM
Boo hoo? Everyone always thinks that they must get something in return for what they did. Why? Isn't the satisfaction for doing somethign for someone else good enough? Geez... talk about selfish...
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Post by: smokey_locs2002 on July 04, 2005, 04:16:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rune_of_Punishment
Boo hoo? Everyone always thinks that they must get something in return for what they did. Why? Isn't the satisfaction for doing somethign for someone else good enough? Geez... talk about selfish...


Doing something for unhelpful people isn't fun. People always do something to gain something if you REALLY think about it. Some help people because they fear that god will kill them some help people to see a smile on their face. Some help people because they are blind. There's a differance between being used and being helpful. I've helped peeps who didn't even say thx, or commit on how good it looks....When it gets to that point then you feel you should get something even it it's only a thx.
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Post by: RPG LORD on July 04, 2005, 07:46:31 AM
Take those words back, Rune of Punishment.
You don't get the point at all.
Well, if Alex meant this to be a helpful community, then I take my hat off to the failure this is.
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Post by: Drace on July 04, 2005, 10:20:33 AM
If those "freeloaders" could help people they could make their own stuff and wouldn't request anything, ever though of that?
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 04, 2005, 10:51:49 AM
Drace , think before you post....
They probably try themselves and fail. so they just give up.
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Post by: Drace on July 04, 2005, 12:45:54 PM
Exactly, not everyone can make stuff.
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 04, 2005, 01:21:14 PM
yes and....
then we have teh issue of people who CAN, NOT doing requests , dont get me wrong, im not asking eveyone to do requests 24/7, but perhaps if we all did the odd request, charas would be a more helpful community.
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Post by: Dragonium on July 04, 2005, 02:52:49 PM
I have to say I agree with Leon.

Quote
Originally posted by smokey_locs2002
"In order to gain something in life you must present something of equal value" goes something like that, anyways. This doesn't mean "If I make a sprite for you you make a song for me" I've noticed those who are more helpful and more simple request get their request done alot faster.


I agree, I don't think a "Request Swap" thing would work. See, we'd end up with all the repeat-requesters asking for sprites completely custom that take 2 hours, and they'd reward the person with a crappily generated charset which took 20 seconds. I'm sick of people who do that.

If someone puts a lot of effort into a piece of work, then you better give them something of equal value in return.

And I know someone will say "But not everyone is good at the same things". Well, you're right. But I believe in the principle that everyone has some skill in something. Whether it be charsets, titles, MIDIs, etc.

Ehh, whatever.
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Post by: Drace on July 04, 2005, 03:20:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Leon_1990
yes and....
then we have teh issue of people who CAN, NOT doing requests , dont get me wrong, im not asking eveyone to do requests 24/7, but perhaps if we all did the odd request, charas would be a more helpful community.

That's something else.
I was only defending the people who CAN'T, NOT doing requests.
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Post by: Almeidaboo on July 04, 2005, 04:31:16 PM
Hm...Working with RPG Maker makes you fit in a "class": spriter, musician, scripter, writer...Plus, you have an level at that: semi-novice, novice, experienced, advanced, master, über-God-of all...Now, letīs take a look at ME ( as the majority of people...)

Spriter: semi-novice
Musician: null (when you canīt even make music hitting the wall with your head...)
scripter: experienced
Writer: advanced (altough Iīve never told you guys any of my stories...letīs put thast aside and trust me hahaha...)

Well, that person there (me) seems like a person that needs help in a game doesnīt he? Well, he tries a bit of all, even tough heīs a failure in most of it...if he requests, he canīt really give anything back, since 99% of ppl thatīs making a game has their own story/would like to make it up. What to do then?

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on July 04, 2005, 04:44:26 PM
Guys, think about it like a school art class. Lets face it, not even half the people in these classes can do anything artistic, but they attempt it. Even if it looks like crap, they're giving SOMETHING to the teacher instead of nothing. Now, if all the n00bs/newbs on here would take that mentality, and at least attempt doing any request it would be better, because giving somehing is always better than giving nothing. And on this whole "Give for something in return", thats a load of selfish bull*****. Thats like going to a birthday party, givng a gift, and saying "whare's my gift?".
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Post by: InsaneJP on July 04, 2005, 04:51:07 PM
guys this is getting way to out of hand i know everyone is mad at something but you are all gunna hafta just let it go and stop arguing....we all no people dont do things and we all know not everyone can do something so leave it at that
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Post by: coasterkrazy on July 04, 2005, 05:44:26 PM
I always thought it was better if when someone requested resources, they offered something in return. It's not like you have to accept it, but at least they're trying to be fair about things rather than: Ah please! I need (such and such) resource for (so and so)!!!!! Please someone do this!

I think that's probably the worst way to go about asking for resources.
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Post by: Moosetroop11 on July 04, 2005, 06:07:48 PM
 
Quote
Doing something for unhelpful people isn't fun. People always do something to gain something if you REALLY think about it. Some help people because they fear that god will kill them some help people to see a smile on their face. Some help people because they are blind. There's a differance between being used and being helpful. I've helped peeps who didn't even say thx, or commit on how good it looks....When it gets to that point then you feel you should get something even it it's only a thx.

NOT true. I do it merely because I like helping people. I don't fear God or beleive in him, and I'm not blind so meh.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 04, 2005, 06:58:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RPG LORD
Take those words back, Rune of Punishment.
You don't get the point at all.
Well, if Alex meant this to be a helpful community, then I take my hat off to the failure this is.


That's one that sticks around for it hehehe.


The whole point of helping, is expecting you might not get anything from the person. The result from helping others IS what should satisfy you; of course getting a thx wou;d help but it is not the point.

Quote
Thats like going to a birthday party, givng a gift, and saying "whare's my gift?".
 Is exactly the kind of attitude you shouldn't have when helping people. And if you are going to be like that, i do suggest; don't help at all.
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Post by: WarxePB on July 04, 2005, 07:02:10 PM
Quote
RPG LORD
Well, if Alex meant this to be a helpful community, then I take my hat off to the failure this is.


If it's such a failure, why do you bother sticking around?
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 05, 2005, 01:41:06 AM
Are you trying to get him to leave Warxe?!
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Post by: Reain_ on July 05, 2005, 02:10:44 AM
CoolZidane I agree that it is hard to get help on charas. Not for everyone but for most it is.

Some people barley even ask for things and when they occasonaly do they are rarely helped.

Though also if they do ask for help sometimes it's hard to give back to the perso who helped them make graphics and there really isn't much they can do. Though the least they could do is say thanx, and remember it for a later time incase there in need of somthing you can do.

Also credit in the game you make is also appreciated if it was a graphic they made for you.

------------------------------

Though when it comes to opinions on games it is hard to get good feedback.

Most of the time you get post like "this story sucks" or "I think the storys good" and things like how they like a certian character.

and this even happens when you ask for them to be pesific or ask opinons they respond very bluntly.

People should give reasons why they like somthing or why they don't like it and changes that could possibly made. And what you like of the story and what you don't. and suggetions for other features that would perhaps suit the game.




I have a game posted in the game section and the first 2 times i posted I barley got any good feedback. This time I'm hoping to get a little bit better feedback and more responses.
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Post by: smokey_locs2002 on July 05, 2005, 03:00:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
quote:
Doing something for unhelpful people isn't fun. People always do something to gain something if you REALLY think about it. Some help people because they fear that god will kill them some help people to see a smile on their face. Some help people because they are blind. There's a differance between being used and being helpful. I've helped peeps who didn't even say thx, or commit on how good it looks....When it gets to that point then you feel you should get something even it it's only a thx.

NOT true. I do it merely because I like helping people. I don't fear God or beleive in him, and I'm not blind so meh.


Then those parts don't apply to you now do they? (Common Sence)

PS: you're not everyone..
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 05, 2005, 03:29:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Leon_1990
Are you trying to get him to leave Warxe?!


Are you trying to say he should stay on a place where he thinks is a loser-non-helping community that will affect him?

Some people need to be more reasonal; Is not that I want people to leave, but I, if I think low of a forum, I don't go and and disgrace myself by saying "this place is a failure", and stick around for it.

If i really think is a failure and if I beleive it will effect me, then I will go away quietly; I've done so hundreds of time.

If I think a place is a failure and and stick around, then in my mind im  a failure as well.

I don't think this site is a failure AT ALL. For those who think it is, you guys dun know what helping is;
Have you any idea of what those generators and complete resources have done to help people on their games? I think not.

Besides helping me in that, this site has been of great inspiration, not only in rpgmaking, but in graphics, manners and has teach me a thing or two about life.

Maybe people are not as open minded as I, but it doesn't mean, that because this site doesn't appeal to you, it's a failure, even if amazingly you been in it for more than a year.

To me saying that this site is a failure, is not only a shameful thing to say, but rather an insult. I consider this place a home, a cybernetic home, and there's no way that someone who thinks who should get something in return for helping out and returns nothing, is going to insult this site as a mere passby and calling it a failure.

I don't know, but I do believe some people need to apologize...

Get rid of the idea of perfect communities, because there isn't one, and if by any chance there is, don't go there, because you'll make it unperfect.
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Post by: Rune_of_Punishment on July 05, 2005, 03:44:14 AM
These words from Tales of Symphonia can ba applied to many walks of life, even in this situation:

"Dwarven Vow #18: It's better to be deceived than to deceive."

Helping others is a good thing and you should get satisfaction from just that. A thanks or a return gift is an extra, but not needed. If you go around in life expecting things in return, you're not going to get anywhere. Being selfish is stupid and turning your back on people in need because you aren't getting anything in return is downright ridiculous.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 05, 2005, 03:47:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rune_of_Punishment
These words from Tales of Symphonia can ba applied to many walks of life, even in this situation:

"Dwarven Vow #18: It's better to be deceived than to deceive."

Helping others is a good thing and you should get satisfaction from just that. A thanks or a return gift is an extra, but not needed. If you go around in life expecting things in return, you're not going to get anywhere. Being selfish is stupid and turning your back on people in need because you aren't getting anything in return is downright ridiculous.


Very very very true.
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Post by: Weregnome on July 05, 2005, 08:29:45 AM
You know, I don't even use RPG Maker. To be truthful, I could sprite somewhat (mainly editing) and I can make a story (some pretty good ones). As someone said something about staying her for support with RPG Maker. Was it RPG LORD? Then Warxe said leave if he sees failing. Ok by what was said states that Charas is about RPGmaker. Wait tho, I'm here not for RPGmaker. Just cos its a good forum.
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Post by: Drace on July 05, 2005, 08:52:05 AM
Same as WG, I hang around for fun. To have some laughs, to discuss some issues. Charas has become more than a resource place over the last year.
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Post by: mind-master: brain(mmb) on July 05, 2005, 10:59:50 AM
agreed... nothing more... noting less,
you dont get much help on request with own-made games.
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 05, 2005, 11:14:14 AM
why is it everything I say happens to be wrong?!

maybe its a respect issue...

Yeah, if I told someone to leave you would all be pissed that i said that, but no, just because Warxe said it you all need to bow down and agree.
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Post by: BlackIceAdept on July 05, 2005, 11:15:12 AM
.....wheres carmen or red?

anyways this is getting old and stale I don't want to see anymore flaming...
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Post by: mind-master: brain(mmb) on July 05, 2005, 11:17:21 AM
well... like i said in mrmisters thread,
you changed since you first joiend charas...
nope agreed blackiceadept, no more flaming, and taylor dont see this^ as flaming please...

carmen is on late at night, and red... loggs in from time to time ( messenger ), here i have no idea.
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Post by: BlackIceAdept on July 05, 2005, 11:28:23 AM
we have some really strange people on this forum...

but regardless I'm sick of this topic...nothing good is going to result from it anyways... :badboy:
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Post by: Drace on July 05, 2005, 11:28:58 AM
He's probably to busy getting beat up by girls. And ask White cause it's true XD
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 05, 2005, 11:37:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Drace
He's probably to busy getting beat up by girls. And ask White cause it's true XD


???

Quote
Originally posted by Mindmaster: brain(mmb)well... like i said in mrmisters thread,
you changed since you first joiend charas...
nope agreed blackiceadept, no more flaming, and taylor dont see this^ as flaming please...


whatever...
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Post by: Leon_1990 on July 05, 2005, 01:05:44 PM
Quote bug fixed, sorry, my fault -_-''
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 05, 2005, 06:35:43 PM
There's flaming on this thread?

please for those members that say there is, I might've overlooked, please post the flame posts.
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Post by: Rune_of_Punishment on July 05, 2005, 07:51:40 PM
I don't see any flames. If you consider any of my posts flames, something be wrong.
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Post by: carmen on July 05, 2005, 08:44:44 PM
not really, just some spam. Most likely cause the topic is getting played out
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Post by: Drace on July 06, 2005, 09:07:06 AM
I think it's for the best if someone locks this topic before it get's out of hand.
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Post by: Rune_of_Punishment on July 06, 2005, 02:05:12 PM
It's not getting out of hand.
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Post by: Drace on July 06, 2005, 02:33:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rune_of_Punishment
It's not getting out of hand.

 
Quote
I think it's for the best if someone locks this topic before it get's out of hand.


Read.
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Post by: Moosetroop11 on July 06, 2005, 03:44:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by smokey_locs2002
quote:
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
quote:
Doing something for unhelpful people isn't fun. People always do something to gain something if you REALLY think about it. Some help people because they fear that god will kill them some help people to see a smile on their face. Some help people because they are blind. There's a differance between being used and being helpful. I've helped peeps who didn't even say thx, or commit on how good it looks....When it gets to that point then you feel you should get something even it it's only a thx.

NOT true. I do it merely because I like helping people. I don't fear God or beleive in him, and I'm not blind so meh.


Then those parts don't apply to you now do they? (Common Sence)

PS: you're not everyone..

Heh. I see where you're coming from, but I have done more requests than you may think, some have been over E-mail, etc.


Anyway, as others have said, there's much more to charas than just rm2k now.

And on a closing note, people CHOOSE to be here, and the site is open to ANYONE. Just because they don't want to do requests doesn't make them a worse person, really. THey're no worse than someone who never joined Charas or saw the requests.
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Post by: Weregnome on July 07, 2005, 08:57:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
quote:
Originally posted by smokey_locs2002
quote:
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
quote:
Doing something for unhelpful people isn't fun. People always do something to gain something if you REALLY think about it. Some help people because they fear that god will kill them some help people to see a smile on their face. Some help people because they are blind. There's a differance between being used and being helpful. I've helped peeps who didn't even say thx, or commit on how good it looks....When it gets to that point then you feel you should get something even it it's only a thx.

NOT true. I do it merely because I like helping people. I don't fear God or beleive in him, and I'm not blind so meh.


Then those parts don't apply to you now do they? (Common Sence)

PS: you're not everyone..

Heh. I see where you're coming from, but I have done more requests than you may think, some have been over E-mail, etc.


Anyway, as others have said, there's much more to charas than just rm2k now.

And on a closing note, people CHOOSE to be here, and the site is open to ANYONE. Just because they don't want to do requests doesn't make them a worse person, really. THey're no worse than someone who never joined Charas or saw the requests.


Amen.
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Post by: RPG LORD on July 08, 2005, 02:53:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
quote:
RPG LORD
Well, if Alex meant this to be a helpful community, then I take my hat off to the failure this is.


If it's such a failure, why do you bother sticking around?

Very funny Warxe. But remember that I will always be looking for the good of Charas, and will do anything to see it, no matter what it takes. I will let nothing stop me from finding the good in this community, not even the administrators.
THAT IS A WARNING.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 08, 2005, 08:08:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RPG LORD
quote:
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
quote:
RPG LORD
Well, if Alex meant this to be a helpful community, then I take my hat off to the failure this is.


If it's such a failure, why do you bother sticking around?

Very funny Warxe. But remember that I will always be looking for the good of Charas, and will do anything to see it, no matter what it takes. I will let nothing stop me from finding the good in this community, not even the administrators.
THAT IS A WARNING.


You are so contradicting.
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Post by: RPG LORD on July 08, 2005, 08:27:09 PM
What I'm saying is I'm going to try my utter best to find the good things left on this community. I will be going far for this purpose.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 08, 2005, 09:34:42 PM
You don't have to go far, anything. First try finding the good in you, then you'll see.
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Post by: Drace on July 09, 2005, 12:23:37 AM
 
Quote
First try finding the good in you, then you'll see.

XD
You sound like the Karate Kid sensei!
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 09, 2005, 12:46:22 AM
that's because it's true.
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Post by: Osmose on July 09, 2005, 02:28:20 AM
Amen to the Karate Kid Sensei. He is truely a modern-day Jesus.
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Post by: Trevlac on July 09, 2005, 05:20:56 AM
Too many people defending members who "can't" do something.  Always excuses for why someone can't do something and never a reason they can.  Right.  I used to be one who "can't" make a sprite worth a crap.  Or "can't" make a sig worth a flip.  'Know what I did?  Made one.  Because I believe in Vincent Van Gogh.

"If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot paint," then by all means paint, and that voice will be silenced."

So, I painted.  Just trying to point out that anyone saying someone can't do something obviously doesn't understand what can't means.  They simply do not have the motivation to be productive members of charas.  And there's nothing wrong with that, they exist to give the productive members practice and help shape them.

But I guess I have just violated my other philosophy:

"Do not argue with a fool, other people may not notice a difference."

If Mid were here, I know she would agree.
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Post by: RPG LORD on July 09, 2005, 07:31:08 AM
Guess I need some rest... But Trevlac, I have to say I can agree with you. Graphically I've done some custom things, but what you said encourages me to keep trying. Thanks for mentioning it.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on July 09, 2005, 07:43:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Trevlac
If Mid were here, I know she would agree.


LOL! Believe me; she would XD XD XD but on the philosophy.
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on July 09, 2005, 07:48:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Trevlac
"Do not argue with a fool, other people may not notice a difference."

I am stealing that philosiphy.

But out of curiosity, how did a thread based on complaining and b****ing get 8 pages?
Title:
Post by: Drace on July 09, 2005, 09:27:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Trevlac
Because I believe in Vincent Van Gogh.


Hey, isn't he dutch?

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Post by: SaiKar on July 12, 2005, 02:47:17 AM
The key to making a game is self-sufficiency. That is, don't bite off more than you can chew. If you can't draw sprites, know where you can reliably get them (such as the generators) or use what's avaiable. You might not get exactly what you want, but compromises are necessary. I based my game, which has a cast of about 25 characters, mostly on RTP characters and commonly traded characters like the roco ones. Why? Because that's what resources where out there.

I never wanted to answer requests. I only came to Charas to share my battle characters (there were origionally three custom ones) on the complete resources page and call it good. But I started getting emails asking me to make battle characters out of specific character sets. At first I was totally floored and honored that someone would think my work was good enough to use in their games. Slowly it dawned on me that most people either didn't have the skill to sprite or were unwilling to learn. So I did a lot of requests, became immensitly well-known and everyone's friend, and become a moderator here and then an admin. A rise to power in less than a year. The American Dream, or something.

The burnout was inevitable. I take a lot of pride in my sprites. They are nothing less than works of art, and flaws bother me. It takes two days of about 3 hours of work a day for me to create an entire battle character set. Creating the first pose takes over an hour alone. Then copying it dozens of times, shifting it around, making it look right, testing in the game and fixing things that bother me... that's just for one set. I've done two dozen requests at least. Lots and lots of days of spriting for people.

What was my reward? I've never seen a game with my sprites be released. I've never seen one come even close. The closest game to completion I know with my graphics is my own, at 20+ hours. That's a pretty convincing case not to help people.

I don't have the time to sprite for others anymore. I barely have time to sprite for myself. I love Charas because it is so full of dreams, but I'm getting sort of jaded that the dreams always die and never are fulfilled. Maybe if someone from Charas were to finish a game the faith would be restored.

Oh, and for the record, 100% of my requests have been answered by talented artists within mere hours. Is it because I'm an admin that people help me? Because I'm friends with a lot of people? Because I'm making a game that I don't talk about much but everyone sort of knows is coming along well? Because people still think I'm a girl? Or because over the past year I have requested like 5 simple requests total? I don't know. All I can say is, they help me. If you're not getting your requests done, well, become more like me. :p
Title:
Post by: SaiKar on July 12, 2005, 03:03:16 AM
Oh, and admin-style cleanup:

To the people saying this thread should be closed: stop playing mini-mod. The moderator Kijuki and Carmen (and myself when my computer isn't fryed) are more than capable of closing a thread. We don't need anyone's help finding when the time is right. Remember, in the ideal Charas, NO threads would EVER be closed. As long as people can discuss maturely, the discussion can continue.

Quote
RPG LORD
Very funny Warxe. But remember that I will always be looking for the good of Charas, and will do anything to see it, no matter what it takes. I will let nothing stop me from finding the good in this community, not even the administrators.
THAT IS A WARNING.


The second you make statements like this, you've already lost your path. You're not looking out for the good of anyone if you're worried about people stopping you. And, mark my words, if you cross the line and break the rules, I will stand in your way as an adminstrator, and you won't be able to do anything about it. That's not a warning, just a fact.
Title:
Post by: WarxePB on July 12, 2005, 03:58:49 AM
This is all stupid. Why are we even arguing about this anymore? Let's just let this topic die and continue on with our lives.