Post by: Revolution911 on October 14, 2005, 06:55:55 PM
"Yeah."
"Thats retarded. Why. Thats like dis-owning your kid cause he's black."
"I dont know..he's gay"
So....WOULD you dis-own your gay son/daughter? IF SO...explain to me WHY it makes a difference.
The only real issue I could see is grand kids. Even then, they could always adopt. But thats not enough to make me dis-own a kid.
Post by: Hell Angel on October 14, 2005, 07:02:26 PM
It's just the way it is, and that's the way people think, and there is nothing we can do to change them.
Being gay used to be considerred breaking laws in religion, so some people still believe that way.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 14, 2005, 07:05:04 PM
Post by: Drace on October 14, 2005, 07:07:04 PM
Post by: Hell Angel on October 14, 2005, 07:07:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hell Angel
It's just the way it is, and that's the way people think, and there is nothing we can do to change them.
It's like asking why people hate hicks, or blacks, or jews, or KKK members, or anarchists, or a certain brand of cereal, or prefer Pepsi for Coke, it's just how **** is.
Post by: MrMister on October 14, 2005, 07:11:40 PM
Being straight(cool) has been the norm since forever. So when a drag wearing fem walks down the street with feather boas coming out of his ***, sticking out from everyone else; say 40% of people might hate them because of religeon, which creates a mob mentality.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 14, 2005, 07:15:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hell Angel
It's like asking why people hate hicks, or blacks, or jews, or KKK members, or anarchists, or a certain brand of cereal, or prefer Pepsi for Coke, it's just how **** is.
Well theres some more questions for you. Hicks, blacks, jews, anarchists, gays...Ya know...like...you dont have to support it, just respect it. It makes no sense why they cant do that much. And half the time it doesent even make sense to the person who hates em. As for the cereal and coke...Eh..Thats more so a persons taste in food o_o;.
Edit: Oh yeah..KKK members..They actually acted. They killed for the thought that they were better than everyone. What makes me dislike(not hate) them is that they killed people for such an ignorant belief. But thats an entirely different situation..because..I dont think there's a religon against black people.
Post by: Bluhman on October 14, 2005, 07:22:43 PM
Post by: Drighton on October 14, 2005, 08:11:09 PM
Many religions are accepting it because it is becoming so common its almost normal, saying that God has "changed his mind" on the matter.
The real reason they say this is because if homosexuality is becoming so normal and the churches condemn them to "hell", then they would lose attendance and thus all the $$$ those people bring. :badboy: But I won't go into all that stuff about churches now.I wouldn't hate anyone because their gay (which doesn't necessarily mean they would be wearing womens clothing and stuff guys... come on). However I don't want people to try and convince me that it's normal, just as I wouldn't push my beliefs on them. I wouldn't choose to associate with them (business is a different matter) seeing as that could be perceived as my acceptance on the issue.
To answer the question: No, I wouldn't disown them. But I wouldn't have it in my house either.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 14, 2005, 08:16:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Drighton
I would say the majority of people "don't like" gay people because of religion. I am one of those people (though my beliefs are not what would be considered standard), but its not the person I have a problem with, its their choices. I can respect a person for being themselves.
Many religions are accepting it because it is becoming so common its almost normal, saying that God has "changed his mind" on the matter.
I wouldn't hate anyone because their gay (which doesn't necessarily mean they would be wearing womens clothing and stuff guys... come on). However I don't want people to try and convince me that it's normal, just as I wouldn't push my beliefs on them. I wouldn't choose to associate with them (business is a different matter) seeing as that could be perceived as my acceptance on the issue.
To answer the question: No, I wouldn't disown them. But I wouldn't have it in my house either.
Well...your way is more of what I said..you dont really support them, but you respect them none the less. I respect that.
Post by: Drace on October 14, 2005, 08:18:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Revolution911
situation..because..I dont think there's a religon against black people.
If I'm correct, Neo-Nazies hate black people.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 14, 2005, 08:22:04 PM
Post by: Drace on October 14, 2005, 08:27:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Revolution911
Dont they hate EVERYTHING?
I'm sure they love cute little cats. Everyone loves cute little cats. And dogs. Remember, Hitler was great to his dog Blondi till he tested his posion on her. But he tested it on her because he believed he would be reunited with her in the afterlife.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 14, 2005, 08:32:23 PM
Post by: Drace on October 14, 2005, 08:38:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Revolution911
Drace, If I wasnt straight, I'd marry you.
XD
I just watch lots of WWII stuff on Discovery. I'm a war/survival freak, ya know.
Post by: blaze_shinigami on October 14, 2005, 09:59:39 PM
Lesbianism doesn't involve or bother me. but when some people watch porn and have all that crap in their head, they need to realize that there are fat, ugly & old lesbians too.
If I had a gay son/daughter, can't possibly know what to do about it.
but support & acceptance is the right answer, i guess. but it would kind of be losing your genes, unless you had other children to pass them on, or... other things.
Post by: coasterkrazy on October 14, 2005, 10:04:53 PM
Post by: Drace on October 14, 2005, 10:29:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by blaze_shinigami
they need to realize that there are fat, ugly & old lesbians too.
Two words: Rosie O'Donnell.
Post by: WarxePB on October 14, 2005, 10:32:01 PM
The only thing I'm opposed to in regard to being gay is gay marriage. Under the law, "marriage" is the union of a man and a woman. I have no problem with gay marriage, but I believe it shouls be called something else. Maybe "union".
Post by: VahnGrave on October 15, 2005, 06:52:27 AM
If my son was gay, and he was proud, then that's his choice.
and about the marriage deal. It isn't the governments lives, so why should THEY get to say that gay marriage should be illegal, or whatever?
Post by: Razor on October 15, 2005, 07:24:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Drace
quote: Originally posted by blaze_shinigami
they need to realize that there are fat, ugly & old lesbians too.
Two words: Rosie O'Donnell.
Two words: Projectile vomit.
Anyway, I wouldn't care. Though I'd most likely steer my son into the crazy bin, anyway. I mean, for God's sake I want to call him "Bort". I'm evil!
Post by: Drace on October 15, 2005, 08:57:29 AM
Post by: Almeidaboo on October 15, 2005, 12:19:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
My beliefs teach me that people who are not straight are condemned to Hell for eternity. However, that does not make me hate them; the Bible also says that you should love your neighbor, even if they are sinful. Being gay is no more of a sin than murder or abuse, so gay people should not be shunned simply because they are gay. In other words, I would respect a person no matter their sexual orientation or anything else (unless they raped and abused their wife and killed their immediate family).
The only thing I'm opposed to in regard to being gay is gay marriage. Under the law, "marriage" is the union of a man and a woman. I have no problem with gay marriage, but I believe it shouls be called something else. Maybe "union".
This' why I dislike the catholic church. Theyīre arrogant enough to say what is sin and what is not. DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOD THINKING ABOUT? Maybe itīs all the contrary of what we think and weīre just messing it all up!
Being gay or not is a sexual option, not a agression agains the world or other people. It comes with the package, itīs within the person. If the person wasd born that way, who made her gay: GOD for the sakes! Doesnīt it seem illogical that God would make something that is sinful...
Gay people, as said, are PEOPLE that like dick, instead of....women stuff...tthatīs it! There are people that like rap and no one complains about it!
Post by: Drace on October 15, 2005, 12:56:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
There are people that like rap and no one complains about it!
I do.
Post by: AsakuraHao2004 on October 15, 2005, 01:59:49 PM
Post by: Osmose on October 15, 2005, 02:07:28 PM
That still makes you an ***hole. That's equivalent to a girl (Or guy, if you are a girl, although generally it's guys who are prejudiced against gays) asking you out. You should deal with it in the same manner. If you are attracted to them, say yes, if you aren't, say no and tell them you're sorry that it's not mutual.
I mean, what do you think is the difference? If the gay person asks you out does it suddenly turn you gay? Will you grow feathers out of your *** and get a third eye? Are you suddenly obligated to have sex with them? No.
Being gay is a matter of sexual preference. That people think it's moral to say that it's wrong really sickens me. Do you hate people who divorce as much as you hate gays? Both are said to be against God in the Bible. If your child got a divorce with their spouse, would you disown them or even consider punishing them?
The truth is, religion has violated the policy of seperation of church and state by steadfastly holding on to marriage. Marriage, if you want to continue getting tax benefits and the other legal aspects of being married to someone, needs to be taken away from the grasp of any religion and given to the government to perform. Maybe once that's done we won't have Neo-Jesuses coming up and saying that "God defined marrige as a union between a man and a woman." Well gee golly, if God said it, then OUR GOVERNMENT MUST SAY IT, right?
Post by: MrMister on October 15, 2005, 05:43:34 PM
You can't force your religeon on somebody, even if they are doing something you believe is wrong. Of course they'll want to get married, they'd rather call someone their husband then their boyfriend; they should have the right to, especially if they aren't Christians.
Quote
Originally posted by Revolution911
"Thats retarded. Why. Thats like dis-owning your kid cause he's black."
Solution: Don't sleep with black people.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 15, 2005, 08:34:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.
That still makes you an *******. That's equivalent to a girl (Or guy, if you are a girl, although generally it's guys who are prejudiced against gays) asking you out. You should deal with it in the same manner. If you are attracted to them, say yes, if you aren't, say no and tell them you're sorry that it's not mutual.
I mean, what do you think is the difference? If the gay person asks you out does it suddenly turn you gay? Will you grow feathers out of your *** and get a third eye? Are you suddenly obligated to have sex with them? No.
Being gay is a matter of sexual preference. That people think it's moral to say that it's wrong really sickens me. Do you hate people who divorce as much as you hate gays? Both are said to be against God in the Bible. If your child got a divorce with their spouse, would you disown them or even consider punishing them?
The truth is, religion has violated the policy of seperation of church and state by steadfastly holding on to marriage. Marriage, if you want to continue getting tax benefits and the other legal aspects of being married to someone, needs to be taken away from the grasp of any religion and given to the government to perform. Maybe once that's done we won't have Neo-Jesuses coming up and saying that "God defined marrige as a union between a man and a woman." Well gee golly, if God said it, then OUR GOVERNMENT MUST SAY IT, right?
I love you. (In a non-sexual way)
Post by: Linkizcool on October 15, 2005, 09:46:53 PM
Post by: MrMister on October 15, 2005, 10:02:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Linkizcool
My 6th grade teacher was gay, and I never would have guessed. Hes a really nice guy and he taught us well and that was it. I don't care about gays. All I know is im straight and being gay is genetic.
Not genetic! That's so ignorant!
What do you think, Mr. Hat?
Post by: Revolution911 on October 15, 2005, 10:12:37 PM
I love you all in a non sexual way.
But..being gay is not genetic...thats honestly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard =/..*Shrugs*
Post by: Drighton on October 15, 2005, 10:46:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOD THINKING ABOUT?
The Bible has all the answers. People just tend to agree with what they like and pervert what they don't so it agrees with their lifestyle. That is why most people are turning from religion nowadays. Whats wrong one day can be good the next. See my earlier post about $$$$.
Quote
Maybe itīs all the contrary of what we think and weīre just messing it all up!
B-I-NGO and bingo was its name-o. :D
Quote
Being gay or not is a sexual option, not a agression agains the world or other people. It comes with the package, itīs within the person. If the person wasd born that way, who made her gay: GOD for the sakes!
This, unfortunately, is a common misconception. If God speaks out against homosexuality numerous times, 2 Timothy Chap 3 Verse 1-5 for one.
Quote
Doesnīt it seem illogical that God would make something that is sinful...
From your own mouth.
As far as marriage goes, for those who put their faith in the Bible, this is a union originating from God himself, who paired the first couple: Adam and Eve. We've all heard the witty remark about Steve, but the truth in the matter lies in what Almeidaboo said in this last quote.
Quote
Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.
That still makes you an *******. That's equivalent to a girl (Or guy, if you are a girl, although generally it's guys who are prejudiced against gays) asking you out. You should deal with it in the same manner. If you are attracted to them, say yes, if you aren't, say no and tell them you're sorry that it's not mutual.
Not to be "Mod Wannabe" here, but there is no reason to judge someone because of what they believe. I don't judge you because you accept homosexuality. Its simply not right, especially for those who claim to follow the Bible's counsel, where it is written that judgement is left up to God and God alone (though thats paraphrased).
I've seen many-a-threads go down the hole because of comments like this, and its downright immature as is any equally heated reply. And if this comment is making you mad, simply don't reply. You'll be the bigger man (or woman) for it.
Quote
I mean, what do you think is the difference? If the gay person asks you out does it suddenly turn you gay? Will you grow feathers out of your *** and get a third eye? Are you suddenly obligated to have sex with them? No.
Being gay is a matter of sexual preference. That people think it's moral to say that it's wrong really sickens me. Do you hate people who divorce as much as you hate gays? Both are said to be against God in the Bible. If your child got a divorce with their spouse, would you disown them or even consider punishing them?
Your absolutely right. Life comes with the privilage of free choice. That means God has given us the privilage to make our own decisions whether they are in unison with His will or not.
Quote
The truth is, religion has violated the policy of seperation of church and state by steadfastly holding on to marriage. Marriage, if you want to continue getting tax benefits and the other legal aspects of being married to someone, needs to be taken away from the grasp of any religion and given to the government to perform. Maybe once that's done we won't have Neo-Jesuses coming up and saying that "God defined marrige as a union between a man and a woman." Well gee golly, if God said it, then OUR GOVERNMENT MUST SAY IT, right?
Theoretically, it could be done. But it wouldn't mean that the gov't had simply overrulled God on the matter. There is one scripture I live by daily: "Give Ceasar's things to Ceasar, but God's things to God."
Simply put, follow the laws of the governments (for they are here only because God has allowed them to be here, but that is a different scripture) as long as they don't contradict the will of God. This is where the real test comes. Who are you more afraid of? Simple man-made governments, or the creator of the universe?
Post by: GaryCXJk on October 15, 2005, 11:19:24 PM
I myself would not have something against it if my kid turned out to be gay. Of course the sex has to be outside my house (unless my kid is a girl).
Post by: X_marks_the_ed on October 15, 2005, 11:31:44 PM
Infact, I was against Bush's 'No Gay marriage' law.
They're just different. Why single them out?
Why would someone punish another just for not being like them?
Post by: MrMister on October 15, 2005, 11:47:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GaryCXJk
Of course the sex has to be outside my house (unless my kid is a girl).
Wh-what?!?!? You are SICK!
Post by: GaryCXJk on October 16, 2005, 12:37:14 AM
Post by: MrMister on October 16, 2005, 12:52:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GaryCXJk
With girls you don't get troubles with seedfest. And semen does stain.
Girls' ejaculate is fundamentally the same as males', just without the sperm.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 16, 2005, 01:08:25 AM
Post by: Almeidaboo on October 16, 2005, 02:06:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Linkizcool
My 6th grade teacher was gay, and I never would have guessed. Hes a really nice guy and he taught us well and that was it. I don't care about gays. All I know is im straight and being gay is genetic.
Dude, what was that? Genetic? That comes from the person, itīs like, a soul thing...
Post by: Almeidaboo on October 16, 2005, 02:10:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Drighton
quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo
DO YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOD THINKING ABOUT?
The Bible has all the answers. People just tend to agree with what they like and pervert what they don't so it agrees with their lifestyle. That is why most people are turning from religion nowadays. Whats wrong one day can be good the next. See my earlier post about $$$$.
quote:
Maybe itīs all the contrary of what we think and weīre just messing it all up!
B-I-NGO and bingo was its name-o. :D
quote:
Being gay or not is a sexual option, not a agression agains the world or other people. It comes with the package, itīs within the person. If the person wasd born that way, who made her gay: GOD for the sakes!
This, unfortunately, is a common misconception. If God speaks out against homosexuality numerous times, 2 Timothy Chap 3 Verse 1-5 for one.
quote:
Doesnīt it seem illogical that God would make something that is sinful...
From your own mouth.
As far as marriage goes, for those who put their faith in the Bible, this is a union originating from God himself, who paired the first couple: Adam and Eve. We've all heard the witty remark about Steve, but the truth in the matter lies in what Almeidaboo said in this last quote.
quote: Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.
That still makes you an *******. That's equivalent to a girl (Or guy, if you are a girl, although generally it's guys who are prejudiced against gays) asking you out. You should deal with it in the same manner. If you are attracted to them, say yes, if you aren't, say no and tell them you're sorry that it's not mutual.
Not to be "Mod Wannabe" here, but there is no reason to judge someone because of what they believe. I don't judge you because you accept homosexuality. Its simply not right, especially for those who claim to follow the Bible's counsel, where it is written that judgement is left up to God and God alone (though thats paraphrased).
I've seen many-a-threads go down the hole because of comments like this, and its downright immature as is any equally heated reply. And if this comment is making you mad, simply don't reply. You'll be the bigger man (or woman) for it.
quote:
I mean, what do you think is the difference? If the gay person asks you out does it suddenly turn you gay? Will you grow feathers out of your *** and get a third eye? Are you suddenly obligated to have sex with them? No.
Being gay is a matter of sexual preference. That people think it's moral to say that it's wrong really sickens me. Do you hate people who divorce as much as you hate gays? Both are said to be against God in the Bible. If your child got a divorce with their spouse, would you disown them or even consider punishing them?
Your absolutely right. Life comes with the privilage of free choice. That means God has given us the privilage to make our own decisions whether they are in unison with His will or not.
quote: The truth is, religion has violated the policy of seperation of church and state by steadfastly holding on to marriage. Marriage, if you want to continue getting tax benefits and the other legal aspects of being married to someone, needs to be taken away from the grasp of any religion and given to the government to perform. Maybe once that's done we won't have Neo-Jesuses coming up and saying that "God defined marrige as a union between a man and a woman." Well gee golly, if God said it, then OUR GOVERNMENT MUST SAY IT, right?
Theoretically, it could be done. But it wouldn't mean that the gov't had simply overrulled God on the matter. There is one scripture I live by daily: "Give Ceasar's things to Ceasar, but God's things to God."
Simply put, follow the laws of the governments (for they are here only because God has allowed them to be here, but that is a different scripture) as long as they don't contradict the will of God. This is where the real test comes. Who are you more afraid of? Simple man-made governments, or the creator of the universe?
Oh, now I get it! You HAVE spoken to God, he told you that the bible IS right and you got the answer to the heavens puzzle! Now arenīt you a smarty lil' boy?
5 words for you: TOO PRETENTIOUS FOR A COMMONER!
EDIT: Oh, by the way, the bible was written by human beings, earthly beings, and was modified during these 2005 years according to each person's mind.
Post by: Razor on October 16, 2005, 10:17:03 AM
Anyway, something else people seem to forget. Now, I don't mean this in a mean way or anything, but the bible is a book of stories. It is just a guide on how to live a good life without hatred and being evil and stuff. Don't make me find that page disproving the existance of Noah. Because that was the best thing I've ever read.
Post by: GaryCXJk on October 17, 2005, 07:59:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrMisterNot exactly. Girls don't have semen. Therefore they don't leave proteïn stains.
Girls' ejaculate is fundamentally the same as males', just without the sperm.
I've also read that Noah was based on another story with water and such.
Post by: Osmose on October 17, 2005, 10:13:54 AM
Heresy is claiming to have the knowledge of a (or The, if that's your cup of tea) god. So, in effect, the people who wrote the Bible are heretics.
Not exactly an author I can trust.
Post by: Moosetroop11 on October 17, 2005, 12:13:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.
That still makes you an *******. That's equivalent to a girl (Or guy, if you are a girl, although generally it's guys who are prejudiced against gays) asking you out. You should deal with it in the same manner. If you are attracted to them, say yes, if you aren't, say no and tell them you're sorry that it's not mutual.
I mean, what do you think is the difference? If the gay person asks you out does it suddenly turn you gay? Will you grow feathers out of your *** and get a third eye? Are you suddenly obligated to have sex with them? No.
Being gay is a matter of sexual preference. That people think it's moral to say that it's wrong really sickens me. Do you hate people who divorce as much as you hate gays? Both are said to be against God in the Bible. If your child got a divorce with their spouse, would you disown them or even consider punishing them?
The truth is, religion has violated the policy of seperation of church and state by steadfastly holding on to marriage. Marriage, if you want to continue getting tax benefits and the other legal aspects of being married to someone, needs to be taken away from the grasp of any religion and given to the government to perform. Maybe once that's done we won't have Neo-Jesuses coming up and saying that "God defined marrige as a union between a man and a woman." Well gee golly, if God said it, then OUR GOVERNMENT MUST SAY IT, right?
Have my children.
Post by: WarxePB on October 17, 2005, 12:39:34 PM
My final word on gays: People shoul,d be able to live their own lives, make their own choices, etc. Like Pierre Trudeau said: "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation".
Post by: Almeidaboo on October 17, 2005, 03:23:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
Let's stay on topic, guys. This isn't a "Religion is fake!" thread, it's about being gay. SO STAY ON TOPIC DAMMIT!
My final word on gays: People shoul,d be able to live their own lives, make their own choices, etc. Like Pierre Trudeau said: "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation".
Well, we ARE on-topic. Drighton is trying to say that being homossexual is wrong cause it is on the bible and, therefore, God said it.
And we are saying: GOD DIDNīT SAY A DAMN THING CAUSE IF HEīS REALLY GOOD HEīD NEVER WANT ANYONE TO DISLIKE, HATE OR THINK DOWN ON ANYONE FOR WHATEVER REASON IT IS!
There there (as would a old crazy member say under his avatar).
Post by: WarxePB on October 17, 2005, 03:28:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
And we are saying: GOD DIDNīT SAY A DAMN THING CAUSE IF HEīS REALLY GOOD HEīD NEVER WANT ANYONE TO DISLIKE, HATE OR THINK DOWN ON ANYONE FOR WHATEVER REASON IT IS!
Does cold exist?
Post by: Drighton on October 17, 2005, 05:28:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Osmose
No, Drighton, it is people like you that bring arguments on morality down the drain. By simply referring to a god you invalidate any logical argument by referring to a higher power, as higher powers inevitably do not need to follow the rules of logic. Not to mention that you impose your own religious beliefs on others by using the assumption that your god is right in order to prove a point.
Yes, I cause major arguments by referring to God. Calling people assholes (or that is what I deciphered from the asterisks in your older post) because of their way of beliefs doesn't anger people at all.
You judge someone and call them an ***hole because they judge someone and call them sinful because that person is a homosexual.
Do you see the hypocrisy in that?
But then, you also judge me as having inferior logic, or as having less substance to my words, because I believe in and refer to a higher power, so you are probably going to assume these statements to be irrelevant anyways.
But let me say this: Who is more the ***hole? The person who tolerates gays but chooses not to associate with them, or the person who beats the **** out of a person to the point of death or near-death because they are gay?
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Well, we ARE on-topic. Drighton is trying to say that being homossexual is wrong cause it is on the bible and, therefore, God said it.[/B
I'm not trying to say it. I am saying it. I'm not saying that you have to agree with that, nor that everyone in the world should. Its simply a statement of my stance on the matter.
But then, in retrospect, that reply to your post was unnecessary.
However, Warxe is right.
The topic was: Would you disown your son/daughter because they were gay.
Far off from: Is the Bible a book of God or Man?
Post by: Almeidaboo on October 17, 2005, 06:51:39 PM
Church says(and you say God says): exclude the homosexuals, theyīre sinful.
Do you see hypocrisy in that?
The on-topic thing is: people mostly dislike gay ppl cause this idea was planted in their heads by their religions.
Course, itīs not the only factor. Many were NOT WELL EDUCATED.
Post by: MrMister on October 17, 2005, 07:19:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Revolution911
They kinda..squirt a bit...o_o..
It depends on the girl.. it's not a good feeling, I can tell you that.
Post by: Drighton on October 17, 2005, 07:44:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Bible says (that GOd says): Love each other.
Church says(and you say God says): exclude the homosexuals, theyīre sinful.
Do you see hypocrisy in that?
It is written in the Bible quite a few times that homosexuals are sinful. This isn't something that the church is making up. Though, I'm not sure if that was a typo or something.
;)
Technically this should read:
Quote
Bible says (that GOd says): Love each other.
Bible says(and you say God says): exclude the homosexuals, theyīre sinful.
Do you see hypocrisy in that?
Now, nowhere does the bible say not to love homosexuals. In fact Jesus encouraged people to be neighborly to each other regardless of our differences, as in his illustration of the Good Samaritan.
Quote
The on-topic thing is: people mostly dislike gay ppl cause this idea was planted in their heads by their religions.
Thats hardly on topic. Topic: "Would you dis-own your gay son/daughter?"
You just want to discuss why people who "dislike" gay people because of religion are wrong.
Quote
Course, itīs not the only factor. Many were NOT WELL EDUCATED.
I don't follow. What education would change the way people think about the matter?
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Homosexuality is nothing new. If the Bible speaks of it, then it was clearly a prevalent activity back then (I think that can be agreed on, despite the arguments of the Bible's turthfulness in it's "stories"). It very well could have been around since before then.
This is an argument that has spanned past our lifetime, I would say at least 3000+ years. Its not going to be resolved in an internet forum. :p
As time goes on, people's perceptions of things change. But not everyone will accept the new normal. In the future, our grown kids could end up having a similar discussion, equally debatable, when pedophiles start spouting mess like "natural desire" and "passed on by genetics" and simply want to be accepted into society as normal.
At that time, there will be people rooted in their ways who would view pedophiles as criminals. There will also be people who think they should be left alone. "Not all pedophiles are bad." they'll say (of course, referring to those who have consentual relations, not the rapists). Eventually, people won't think anything of a 30 year old guy dating a 9 or 10 year old girl. It would be so common it would be considered normal.
Don't take this as comparing homosexuals to pedophiles, I'm simply comparing the situation. I'm sure that everyone, at this time, can agree that pedophiles are dispicable. I guess what I'm saying here is that everyone will draw the line somewhere.
Post by: Osmose on October 17, 2005, 09:27:24 PM
We cannot just say, "This isn't about religion" because it is in fact very much about religion. Religion is a set of morals to live by. Nearly everyone in the world has a religion, a belief in a higher power, that they believe and abide by. Their interpretation differs in some cases, but they all believe in something. And that in itself starts a bit of an issue. Having a religion isn't wrong (Far form it. Religion is a lifeline to many who wish to validate their existance, and it's done wonders for building morals), but having unchangeable beliefs is wrong. To quote Chris Rock, "I just think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Beliefs, people fight wars over stuff like that."
Relating this to a situation involve pedophiles doesn't work either, because of the nature of the things. The general argument against gays is that "It's wrong." Pedophilia, on the other hand, is looked down upon not only because of simple opinion, but because a child does not generally have the capacity to make a decision to willingly have sexual relations. In addition, it puts them in physical harm because their body had not yet matured fully. While one could say that gays are just as dangerous, with the advent of HIV awareness and such, it has been proved by thousands of gays across the country that protected sex is safe, and is comparable to that between heterosexual partners.
I will admit that I use strong language, but that's because I see no need to hold back my emotions on an issue that is quite personal to me. (My brother is gay, and my entire immediate family, unlike some of our uncles and aunts, was totally accepting of this).
To put my next answer into terms you might understand: He who sins, no matter the magnitude, must redeem himself in the eyes of God. I loath gaybashers, but since I'm in no position or shape to stop any, I can only try and change the intolerant opinion of someone.
Post by: Drighton on October 17, 2005, 10:01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.
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Originally posted by Osmose
I loath gaybashers, but since I'm in no position or shape to stop any, I can only try and change the intolerant opinion of someone.
So am I tolerative or intolerant? :D
Does not toleration imply that you recognize and respect the rights, beliefs or practices of others?
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Originally posted by Drighton
...but its not the person I have a problem with, its their choices. I can respect a person for being themselves.
Perhaps the wording is incorrect, but it portrays just the same. I'm not going to stand in the way of someone being gay. BUT, I'm not going to say that homosexuality is okay. Once again, I have no problem with the person, just the lifestyle.
Concerning the example. I recall a court case involving two brothers who killed their father and tried to disguise it as a fire. They then ran to their friend's house, who is a convicted pedophile, and long story short, the younger brother turned out to be gay and having a relationship with this friend (who was about 40). The younger had love letters and all that nice stuff, and even confessed on the stand to it all.
Know one can know for sure if this was truly the boy's feelings or if the man had "brainwashed" him, which was the angle the prosecutors took (this case was a mess. both the King (i think that was their name) brothers and the pedophile were acquitted of the father's murder).
This, coupled with all the teacher-student relationships occuring in the US (we only know of those that are reported by the media) are what I had in mind when I made that analogy. But then, at what age does someone have the "capacity to make a decision to willingly have sexual relations"? 13? 14? 15? 16? Older? Younger?
And, theoretically, this could be something presented in the future with similar debatability. But this is completely off topic, so I'll take it no further.
Just know that not everyone (i.e. Me) who says that a gay person in a sinner in their book, doesn't hate that person.
Post by: Almeidaboo on October 17, 2005, 10:06:25 PM
Or you agree that, if it is for the good of some (gay) people, even though the bible said it is wrong, God would be glad to see that, instead of war, people are loving each other?
Plus, when a father smokes, he teaches his kid to smoke. When a father calls a guy a queer and looks down on him, heīs also teaching his son to do so. Thatīs bad education.
Post by: WarxePB on October 17, 2005, 10:07:59 PM
Although I must concede that we're having a great discussion about this. If only more people were involved, and you all didn't post so much at a time.
Post by: AsakuraHao2004 on October 17, 2005, 10:17:34 PM
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Originally posted by Osmose
We cannot just say, "This isn't about religion" because it is in fact very much about religion. Religion is a set of morals to live by.
Chiristian religion. A so called "free" country based upon the morals of a religion. Pretty self-contradictory of our first amendment, is our first amednment itself. And all thereafter.
Post by: WarxePB on October 17, 2005, 10:24:50 PM
It is your right to be an atheist, but the First Amendment (or any free-speech law) is not absolute.
And COME ON. If we want to discuss religion, let's make another thread. Homosexuality and religion are interconnected, but these knid of discussions are not related to homosexuality in any way.
Post by: Revolution911 on October 17, 2005, 10:25:28 PM
Post by: Spike the Kat on October 17, 2005, 10:27:59 PM
i think its write to hate what they are doing
many people say "hating gay people is like hating black people" but it is not.
being black is something you are born with
being gay is something you choose.you might have a desire to but still you have a choice. for example i am an angry person but i do it by choice i would love to not be and try but i just can't and in another sense i am black no matter how hard i try i will never be white. you could hate my actions but at the same time love me, ya know.
do you get wut i meen???
Post by: Razor on October 17, 2005, 10:45:59 PM
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Originally posted by GaryCXJk
I've also read that Noah was based on another story with water and such.
Well, it's still impossible for 2 of every creature on the planet (baring in mind this was only set a few thousand years ago or something) to fit into such a small ark. Also, for the water to go above every mountain, the earth's temperature would sky rocket. And then there's the question, where did all that extra water come from and go to?
Post by: Revolution911 on October 18, 2005, 12:47:28 AM
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Originally posted by Spike the Kat
i think its wrong to hate gays
i think its write to hate what they are doing
many people say "hating gay people is like hating black people" but it is not.
being black is something you are born with
being gay is something you choose.you might have a desire to but still you have a choice. for example i am an angry person but i do it by choice i would love to not be and try but i just can't and in another sense i am black no matter how hard i try i will never be white. you could hate my actions but at the same time love me, ya know.
do you get wut i meen???
Its not really a choice...=/...I mean...sure you could SAY you're straight, but it doesent mean you're not attracted to men....(vice versa for females)
Post by: coasterkrazy on October 18, 2005, 02:23:44 AM
Post by: Osmose on October 18, 2005, 03:45:01 AM
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Originally posted by Drighton
quote: Originally posted by Osmose
So you think you're rightous and tolerative if you say that you respect gays. But at the same time you say you'd stop talking to them if they made a move on you.
quote: Originally posted by Osmose
I loath gaybashers, but since I'm in no position or shape to stop any, I can only try and change the intolerant opinion of someone.
So am I tolerative or intolerant? :D
Does not toleration imply that you recognize and respect the rights, beliefs or practices of others?
You must've misread those or something. In the first one, if you quote the entire thing, I'm building up to saying that if you think you are tolerant for respecting gays but at the sime time not talking to someone who is gay, that you are not. In the second one I say that I am trying to change your intolerant opinon. They are both saying the same thing. I don't know why you're still trying to point out wording errors rather than facing the true issue.
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Perhaps the wording is incorrect, but it portrays just the same. I'm not going to stand in the way of someone being gay. BUT, I'm not going to say that homosexuality is okay. Once again, I have no problem with the person, just the lifestyle.
I don't have a problem with you, personally. I think you're a pretty good programmer, one of few here at Charas. I just have a problem with your lifestyle. You base it on the bible and don't even think for yourself. You would rather follow the word of a being (rather, the words of men who say that they knew the words of this being) you have never seen than sit down and decide for yourself what you believe is right and what you believe is wrong.
Now, that doesn't mean I hate you, I just hate your lifestyle. There's such a difference.
As for the pedophilia side of the argument, the age a child can make an informed decision is dependant on what they have been taught about sex. A person could be 20 years old and not have been told about it, and they wouldn't be able to make the decisions.
I say that they are too young because our society generally teachers about intercourse at around age 12-16. Psychology has also shown that it isn't until puberty ends at the end of adolescence, 16-18, when a person's brain is fully capable of abstract thought and moral interpretation. In fact, one study conducted to see whether adolescents were capable of informed decisions showed that less than half of the 17-year-olds tested had reached a stage of formal operations thinking (Higgins-Trenk & Gaite, 1971). I'd say that around 18 is a good time to say that an individual can make an informed decision on whether to have sex or not. Which is what our society has also concluded.
coasterkrazy: Or, perhaps they're afraid of the prejudice of people and would rather just hide their homosexuality rather than deal with the treatment from others.
Post by: Razor on October 18, 2005, 06:49:18 AM
Post by: Osmose on October 18, 2005, 10:41:08 AM
Post by: Drighton on October 18, 2005, 02:01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Osmose
You must've misread those or something. In the first one, if you quote the entire thing, I'm building up to saying that if you think you are tolerant for respecting gays but at the sime time not talking to someone who is gay, that you are not. In the second one I say that I am trying to change your intolerant opinon. They are both saying the same thing. I don't know why you're still trying to point out wording errors rather than facing the true issue.
Yeah, I did misread that. But it was in jest anyways.
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I don't have a problem with you, personally. I think you're a pretty good programmer, one of few here at Charas. I just have a problem with your lifestyle. You base it on the bible and don't even think for yourself. You would rather follow the word of a being (rather, the words of men who say that they knew the words of this being) you have never seen than sit down and decide for yourself what you believe is right and what you believe is wrong.
Now, that doesn't mean I hate you, I just hate your lifestyle. There's such a difference.
I'm glad we can agree on that. However, believing in the Bible and thinking for one's self are two different matters. There are those who go to church, listen to what the speaker has to say (or sleeps through it, and is there just to say s/he went), and leave. All without even cracking open the good book. There are also those who hear what someone has to say, and then researches the topic, either finding scriptures to debunk that person's teachings, or scriptures to support them, or sometimes both, in which deeper study is required.
Now it is true that some people just accept what is said. A good majority of people know as much about the Bible as I do about politics. In casual conversation with my territory rep, she admitted to not knowing all the books in the Bible. Most people just don't pick it up and read it for themselves anymore. I guess I'm agreeing with you to a certain degree.
I'm going to leave the pedophelia thing alone. Perhaps now there isn't too much to debate about (not that I meant to start a debate about it), but the whole idea was that the future has yet to be determined and anything can happen which will challenge our stance on certain matters.
Post by: Razor on October 18, 2005, 09:41:37 PM
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Originally posted by Osmose
If I add that, then the argument loses it's whole point. "But I respect your values and opinions." "Then why are you even posting?" "...um, I don't know." "Then we don't even need to be talking."
Good point :|
Post by: MrMister on October 18, 2005, 10:04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Razor
Well, it's still impossible for 2 of every creature on the planet (baring in mind this was only set a few thousand years ago or something) to fit into such a small ark. Also, for the water to go above every mountain, the earth's temperature would sky rocket. And then there's the question, where did all that extra water come from and go to?
It takes place, like a million years ago, it was just written a few thousand years ago when it was told to someone by God.
And he spent like 40 years building the ark, you can't assume it was a 'such a small boat'. The extra water came from '40 days and 40 nights of rain'.
Post by: SaiKar on October 19, 2005, 12:05:29 AM
This sort of thing interests people and there has been a lot of excavations and soil sampling around the Mediteranean to the point where there is an actual theory that the entire thing flooded and covered a lot of the European and Asian landmass, or at least the parts closer to the sea where civilization was beginning to take off. Of course, no one can prove anything, but it's a cute little theory.
Post by: Midnight9795 on October 19, 2005, 12:28:25 AM
I have no problem with a person who is gay, bi, straight, tie, or a lesbian. They are all human beings who should get the same respect they give you. And to claim that God's law is correct is kinda strange, being as there is more then one god since there are many a reiligon. There are so many that it's impossible to say this is so. So meh..*eats topic* <.<;; *flees from sai'kar*
Post by: Osmose on October 19, 2005, 01:31:12 AM
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I'm glad we can agree on that.
I was being sarcastic and can't tell if you were being sarcastic as well. :|