Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Ace of Spades on February 28, 2006, 07:51:01 PM

Title: Hollywood Sucks
Post by: Ace of Spades on February 28, 2006, 07:51:01 PM
 Hollywood Sucks (http://www.wtcmovie.com/)
Do people really want to have to think about this again? Do the people who lost relatives or close friends want to be reminded of it? You suck Hollywood. I knew they'd do it too. I just KNEW they couldn't let an event like that not become movie material. What do you guys think?
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Post by: coasterkrazy on February 28, 2006, 07:56:30 PM
Yeah, I'm not surprised either and I agree with you. Hollywood makes a movie out of everything... I hate it. Plus, Hollywood also loves adding adult content in children's movies, which can be seen often. Nowadays, when I mention it to some people I get the "That's Hollywood for you" line.
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Post by: Desimodontidae on February 28, 2006, 08:16:19 PM
Movies are cool.
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Post by: DragonBlaze on February 28, 2006, 08:26:39 PM
Well without hollywood we would only have shitty movies out there. Though they may make a few mistakes, they're doing a lot of good for our entertainment needs.
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Post by: MSlash67 on February 28, 2006, 08:35:43 PM
The people making that movie are very ignorant. It was something people dont like to remember. there will be alot of people pissed off about this movie.

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Post by: Ruler of the Dark on February 28, 2006, 08:53:36 PM
Hollywood people are scumbags.  However, they are scumbags that occasionally give us some nice movies.  So meh.  This isn't the first time they've made a movie that played with people's feelings towards a tragic event now is it?  It's only the recent ones that people seem to care about.  Years after today the whole trade centre thing will be history, like WWI and WWII.  In short, deal with it.  It's not like you're forced to watch the movie now is it?

Oh and hollywood is rich.  Rich people can do whatever they want.
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Post by: WarxePB on February 28, 2006, 09:31:33 PM
It's a stupid idea. I agree with some people that Hollywood's good for some entertainment occasionally, but this is sinking pretty low, even by their standards. The wounds are still fresh, and this is like pouring molten salt all over them.
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Post by: charaman on February 28, 2006, 09:59:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DragonBlaze
Well without hollywood we would only have shitty movies out there. Though they may make a few mistakes, they're doing a lot of good for our entertainment needs.



a majority of the stuff they make is terrible anyway. The big companies many times dictate what gets made, and usually they miss the more artistic approach for something that sells to the less intellectually centered consumers.

to quote clerks: ""OOOH NAVY SEALS!""


There is just something lacking today. Sure there are a few exceptions each year, most notably "Crash" this past season, but mostly we get comepletely asinine and artistally devoid crap.


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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on February 28, 2006, 10:01:28 PM
thats why i watch anime. Oh yes, i am real.
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Post by: DragonBlaze on February 28, 2006, 10:05:23 PM
Razor: Hover over Hollywood sucks and it'll take you to a link about a movie on the world trade centers.

What about peral harbor, black hawk down, and movies like that, they're based off of real life events. I'm sure theres people around who've lost relitive and such in the activites shown in these types of movies.

I don't see any reason why Hollywood shouldn't make a movie based off of this. It was a big event, should we just forget about everything that happened? It happened, deal with it, and don't get upset when Hollywood, the media, or whoever talks about it again.
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Post by: Razor on February 28, 2006, 10:06:03 PM
Bah.
I blame you, Ace.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on February 28, 2006, 10:09:26 PM
No idea.I read the title and I hypothesized it was about hollywood sucking, so I simply implied that i knew, and it is why i watch anime instead. again, oh yeah, I am real.
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Post by: DragonBlaze on February 28, 2006, 10:10:52 PM
Hover over the hollywood sucks in bold in the first post and there'll be a link to a site about a movie on the world trade centers.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on February 28, 2006, 10:12:37 PM
As if anyone didnt see it coming. I predicted it the day it happened; in 2010, but it came sooner, meh.

And if people are writing books about it, why not make a movie out of it?

Its either gonna suck real bad, or be a memorable classic, LIKE titanic... not that i think is memorable but alot of people do.. bleh my idea is across.
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on February 28, 2006, 11:25:40 PM
Didn't read posts, but you c an't judge a whole industry as a whole based on a few retards. Hollywood is releasing this, yes, but they also released just about every good movie youy watch, so just don't watch the movie if you don't like it.
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Post by: MSlash67 on March 01, 2006, 12:22:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
Didn't read posts, but you c an't judge a whole industry as a whole based on a few retards. Hollywood is releasing this, yes, but they also released just about every good movie youy watch, so just don't watch the movie if you don't like it.


Touche my friend. You make a very good point
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Post by: Revolution911 on March 01, 2006, 12:51:39 AM
Ill be there at opening night for the Hurricane Katrine movie.
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Post by: charaman on March 01, 2006, 01:11:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DragonBlaze
Hover over the hollywood sucks in bold in the first post and there'll be a link to a site about a movie on the world trade centers.



Googlewhacking is just immature.



Oliver Stone is a bit of an opportunist, but he is a good filmmaker. Try reading the film synopsis.

Quote
This is the true story of John McLoughlin and William J. Jimeno, the last two survivors extracted from Ground Zero and the rescuers who never gave up. It's a story of the true heroes of that fateful time in the history of the United States when buildings would fall and heroes would rise, literally from the ashes to inspire the entire human race.


ok a bit melodramatically written, but take it bare bones: this movie is a factual (ok its Oliver Stone, so take that with a grain of salt) story about survival in the aftermath of the collapses. It celebrates human triumph and survival, not exploits death.
I could be wrong, but we'll just have to wait and see.
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Post by: Meiscool-2 on March 01, 2006, 01:54:44 AM
Meh, if Hollywood didn't do it, someone else would. If you had a chance to make millions of dollars off of something that's ALREADY HAPPENED, AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, then I'm sure you would do it. Plus, some of the proceeds go to the victims, or so they say....
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on March 01, 2006, 02:02:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Revolution911
Ill be there at opening night for the Hurricane Katrine movie.


I actually anticipate that in the next 20 years IF There isnt another major hurricane.
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Post by: MrMister on March 01, 2006, 03:16:55 AM
This is a 9/11 thread, so I might as well rant.

IMO 9/11 was an inside job. The WTCs had solid steel infrastructures.
Fire's maximum temperature(even when fueled with jet fuel) with somewhere near 1900 degrees, nowhere close to the melting point of steel, even though it was reported that glowing hot molten steel was found in the basement. The only way to achieve that heat would be controlled demolition.

The building fell in 10 seconds, meaning the steel supports on every floor had to be taken out at the same time. Otherwise it would not have fallen so fast.. which means controlled demolition. Fire couldn't have taken out those supports. I don't know how it fell so straight, either. The top floor caved in, onto the second floor, and they fell, and so on. Even with that momentum and weight, it shouldn't have been able to fall so fast. Every floor was steel.

Now, the steel can still weaken and become more pliable in heat, so the fire could do that much. But there was molten steel found in the basement, still hot, nearly six weeks after 9/11.



The movie won't cover that, MAN.

Nicholas Cage will be in it, which means it will suck.
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Post by: Drace on March 01, 2006, 03:51:20 AM
WHAT movie are ya'll refering too?
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on March 01, 2006, 07:06:06 AM
lol clcik the link on the first post.
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Post by: Razor on March 01, 2006, 07:53:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MrMister
This is a 9/11 thread, so I might as well rant.

IMO 9/11 was an inside job. The WTCs had solid steel infrastructures.
Fire's maximum temperature(even when fueled with jet fuel) with somewhere near 1900 degrees, nowhere close to the melting point of steel, even though it was reported that glowing hot molten steel was found in the basement. The only way to achieve that heat would be controlled demolition.

The building fell in 10 seconds, meaning the steel supports on every floor had to be taken out at the same time. Otherwise it would not have fallen so fast.. which means controlled demolition. Fire couldn't have taken out those supports. I don't know how it fell so straight, either. The top floor caved in, onto the second floor, and they fell, and so on. Even with that momentum and weight, it shouldn't have been able to fall so fast. Every floor was steel.

Now, the steel can still weaken and become more pliable in heat, so the fire could do that much. But there was molten steel found in the basement, still hot, nearly six weeks after 9/11.

CONSPIRACY THEORY OH SHI-

 
Quote
WHAT movie are ya'll refering too?

Yeah, Drace. I also fell for that, like a crackwhore for crack.
Anyway, because of Ace's OP, it's hard to tell that the second "Hollywood sucks" is a link. But it is.
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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on March 01, 2006, 07:56:50 AM
also because the topic's name is confusing . I mean is the point and all but theres something missing in it that derives the mind.
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Post by: GaryCXJk on March 01, 2006, 10:03:27 AM
A topic title should reflect WHAT THE **** you're talking about. If it isn't too clear in the title, it should be clear in the post itself. However, LINKS DO NOT QUALIFY AS A VALID REASON TO TAKE OUT THE REASON OFF THE POST ITSELF, ESPECIALLY IF IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT IT IS A LINK.

Other sites would either lock the topic due to unclearness or change either the title or the post.
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Post by: Drace on March 01, 2006, 12:37:56 PM
Not really clear that it's a link, but hey. What the hell are you nabing 'bout? Look at all the movies about things WORSE (ZOMG he didn't say that!) that 9/11!

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Massacres, Murders, True-based movies 'bout rape and murders, Iraq, other war movies, movies 'bout other terrorist attack.

They'll make a movie 'bout everything, face it. Also, it's nothing to get mad about. Movies are a great way of reminding us to horrors of the past, to our mistakes. You can see the movie as a horror, or as a blessing that it'll let people remember the tragic that happend to your country. To let 'em know to prevent it from happening. See it my way.
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Post by: Robotam on March 01, 2006, 01:15:50 PM
Tell me people... What DO you guys like?

And no Mister, Cage does not suck. oo'
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Post by: GaryCXJk on March 01, 2006, 01:40:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Drace
Not really clear that it's a link, but hey. What the hell are you nabing 'bout? Look at all the movies about things WORSE (ZOMG he didn't say that!) that 9/11!

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Massacres, Murders, True-based movies 'bout rape and murders, Iraq, other war movies, movies 'bout other terrorist attack.

They'll make a movie 'bout everything, face it. Also, it's nothing to get mad about. Movies are a great way of reminding us to horrors of the past, to our mistakes. You can see the movie as a horror, or as a blessing that it'll let people remember the tragic that happend to your country. To let 'em know to prevent it from happening. See it my way.
Indeed. Making Tomb Raider 3, now THAT'S a crime.
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Post by: Drace on March 01, 2006, 03:24:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GaryCXJk
quote:
Originally posted by Drace
Not really clear that it's a link, but hey. What the hell are you nabing 'bout? Look at all the movies about things WORSE (ZOMG he didn't say that!) that 9/11!

WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Massacres, Murders, True-based movies 'bout rape and murders, Iraq, other war movies, movies 'bout other terrorist attack.

They'll make a movie 'bout everything, face it. Also, it's nothing to get mad about. Movies are a great way of reminding us to horrors of the past, to our mistakes. You can see the movie as a horror, or as a blessing that it'll let people remember the tragic that happend to your country. To let 'em know to prevent it from happening. See it my way.
Indeed. Making Tomb Raider 3, now THAT'S a crime.


The only good thing 'bout the them was Chris Barrie's appearence.
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Post by: Kinslayer on March 01, 2006, 03:33:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MSlash67
The people making that movie are very ignorant. It was something people dont like to remember. there will be alot of people pissed off about this movie.



I wouldn't call them ignorants, I'd call them "money making bastards"
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Post by: Almeidaboo on March 01, 2006, 07:08:24 PM
Hollywood will suck depending on the emphasis they give to this movie. If they focus on the "brutal and meaningless, cowardly terrorist attack" side of the matter, itīll suck.

If it focus on the "cruel, aburd, sad and back-stabish terrorist attack, yet with some reasons because USA mess with the world like it is itīs puppet" it will be a truthful movie.

I donīt want to start an argument, thatīs just my opinion.
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Post by: Razor on March 01, 2006, 07:39:25 PM
I think it'd be nice if they mention all the things that MrMister mentioned.

THEN YOU WON'T KNOW WHAT TO THINK.
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Post by: charaman on March 01, 2006, 11:24:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kinslayer
quote:
Originally posted by MSlash67
The people making that movie are very ignorant. It was something people dont like to remember. there will be alot of people pissed off about this movie.



I wouldn't call them ignorants, I'd call them "money making bastards"



Oliver Stone isn't exactly Uwe Boll.
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Post by: Ace of Spades on March 01, 2006, 11:42:31 PM
Well, yeah, I know there have been worse movies about worse events (like WWI, II, Pearl Harbor, etc.) BUT, these movies were made years after the event. As Warxe said, the wounds of people are still fresh. And if they have George Bush in it, then knowing Hollywood, they'll portray everything as being his fault.

And the movie would pwn if it put MrMister's conspiracy theory in it.

And mwahaha to the people who didn't know there was a link in the first post, even though there were no intentions to trick ya.
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Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 01:50:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ace of Spades
And if they have George Bush in it, then knowing Hollywood, they'll portray everything as being his fault.


ummm. I believe that that fact is established. It's not a political movie.




Quote
Originally posted by Ace of Spades
And the movie would pwn if it put MrMister's conspiracy theory in it.



Ummm... Wouldn't that be more exploitation of the situation to promote an agenda?

You know, what a majority of people are arguing AGAINST in this thread?




Wanna pick a side?
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Post by: Shady Ultima on March 02, 2006, 06:07:01 AM
Dammit... this is just stupid. I agree that if they're goin to make a movie about this, it shouldn't be made so soon. You didn't see movies about the genocide of the Jews in WWII in 1950... mind you I doubt they'd have allowed it at the time, but it's still there. People are still recovering from it, still trying to accept that it happened. I'm sure there will be a lot of people furious about this.

MrMister has some good points as well. There are so many problems in the US right now, the corruption is terrible. I'm sorry to see a country so corrupted that no one knows the truth, but I suppose that's the 21st century...
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Post by: Drace on March 02, 2006, 08:00:17 AM
There were WWII movies in the the early 1950's. ONLY 5 years after the war. It's around FIVE years after 9/11 now. If I have to pick what's worse, I'd rather say it's worse of WWII movies of the Jewish genicide in the 60s than a movie about 9/11 5 years later. Wounds wil never, they'll only be forgotten and wounds like 9/11 and WWII may not be forgotten.
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Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 02:03:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Drace
There were WWII movies in the the early 1950's. ONLY 5 years after the war. It's around FIVE years after 9/11 now. If I have to pick what's worse, I'd rather say it's worse of WWII movies of the Jewish genicide in the 60s than a movie about 9/11 5 years later. Wounds wil never, they'll only be forgotten and wounds like 9/11 and WWII may not be forgotten.


There were movies during the war.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0036112/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0038160/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0037522/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0036824/ (very good film)
http://imdb.com/title/tt0036037/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0035790/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0034498/ (another very good one)
http://imdb.com/title/tt0036629/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0184254/
http://imdb.com/title/tt0184773/


http://imdb.com/title/tt0041841/ (only 3 years after)

so um. yeah.
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Post by: MrMister on March 02, 2006, 03:11:11 PM
Well, if the government did help out in the attack, then that would be an excuse to go into the Middle East!
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Post by: Grandy on March 02, 2006, 03:18:44 PM
*sight*
 
 First of: Forget "Holywood will do a movie about yadda yadda yadda which is something not nice to remind" We have brazillian movies as well, one of the most famous is "Carandiru", telling the history of this mass-murder on a jail, it's full of painful memories, deaths, real-based histories of many prisioners, even so, it's one of the best damn movies I ever saw.

 Second of: "Oh, I don't want to remember something that happened not to too long ago by the fault of ignorant important people (who I elected myself) in my own country who didn't took seriously the evidences about a terrorist attack, prefering to act like it never happened unless it's to remind the whole world how sad and painful we are so they can be pity of us and be on our sides in this war to find someone who God knows where he is or if he's alive or dead." (takes breath) "So believe me, Mr. Grandy, we are the ones suffering in this war, not the soldiers nor the enemies. We're just like those childrem who almost kills a friend in a battle then when the Teacher comes to stop us we say 'But he punched me first!'"
 Seriously, grow up all of you, shit happens, get over it.  

 And thirth: I agree it'll probaly suck.
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Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 04:02:16 PM
About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell.

About second of: Ditto Grandy. Americans tend to be pussies when it comes to their little bruises.

About third of: well, I made my own statement about if the movie's gonna suck or not.
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Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 04:49:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell.


I can't believe someone would say that. **** it. I'm done trying to comprehend any of this.

Let me just say that the fact that you hold yourself in such a regard as to judge such a situation is really unnerving to me.



I'm seeing a lot of insensitive comments in this thread about events, and theories (and opinions being presented as fact) that are making me ashamed to be a part of this discussion. You say you want to honor the dead but "oh only on my terms" or when it's convienient. Does any one here really believe the 9/11 conspiracies beng presented are at all sincerely representing the wishes of the dead? Please, people. reevaluate what you are saying before you try to critisize another person's insensitivity. People are people, whether they are fucked up or whatever, and it is not your job to pass judgement on the value of their lives, dead or alive.
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Post by: Grandy on March 02, 2006, 05:05:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell.

About second of: Ditto Grandy. Americans tend to be pussies when it comes to their little bruises.

About third of: well, I made my own statement about if the movie's gonna suck or not.


 I disagree. I'm against death sentence, and the fact that there were 111 deads, but not one single GUARD among them shows you how things work. A great ammound of the prisioners didn't deserve that, some were arrested for minimal crimes, the laws at the moment stated that the police shoud have used rubber bullets, and the main reason is that because the rebellion happned in the very week of the elections, the press at the time said there was no deaths, after the elections, the number got from zero to around 10, after a few months, it was 50, even now there are evidences that shows there were probaly much more than just 111.
 You talk about unhumanly cruel, but then again you talk with joy of their deaths.
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Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 05:10:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by charaman
quote:
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell.


I can't believe someone would say that. **** it. I'm done trying to comprehend any of this.

Let me just say that the fact that you hold yourself in such a regard as to judge such a situation is really unnerving to me.



I'm seeing a lot of insensitive comments in this thread about events, and theories (and opinions being presented as fact) that are making me ashamed to be a part of this discussion. You say you want to honor the dead but "oh only on my terms" or when it's convienient. Does any one here really believe the 9/11 conspiracies beng presented are at all sincerely representing the wishes of the dead? Please, people. reevaluate what you are saying before you try to critisize another person's insensitivity. People are people, whether they are ****** up or whatever, and it is not your job to pass judgement on the value of their lives, dead or alive.


Iīll tell you something, and you keep it for life, even though you donīt agree. If you want to understand my comment:

1) Step out, for one day, of Wonder Land. Step out of it and join the pain of opressing governments and insecurity.

2) Be opressed by someone. And not your parents, that take your videogame away. Be scared, feel fear from someone that has actually nothing to lose, that will kill you if you donīt give them your shoes.

3) Live somewhere, a 3rd world country, where the criminals have THE SAME FREAKING WEAPONS AS THE USA ARMY AND TAKE ON THE POLICE AND MANY TIMES WIN.

4) Step out of Wonder Land.

In Brazil, many of the criminals have no hope. Either they die, either you parents may get killed. Streets can be safe. Or not.
The diff between USA criminals and Brazilīs criminals is that in the USA the perfectness of everything, the routine and the steady life, the suburbs drive people crazy. The get f/cked up of the head and enter school with guns to kill their school mates (instead of trying to find new friends WTF!).

In Brazil they come to you and rob you. They are the law in many places, and most of the time theyīve got no mental problems. They were born in the horror of poverty, and persue the life they couldnīt have in the scared eyes of honest people.

They rob, they kill, they rape, they kidnap. And then walk away with your life.

Most of them HAVE to die (not to mention we waste more money with the penitentiary system than with education WTF v.2.2)

EDIT: Oh yes, if youīre really willing to step away from the USA to know more about the poor world, I suggest you to go to Iraq.

Grandy, for how many years have you studied the brazillian penal law and penitentiary system? Well, I did it for 3 and a half years already, and Iīm almost done with the subject. The answer is simple: it doesn't work. In little time those that were killed would be back in the streets, thirsty for some Almeidafreak's or Grandy's family to kill or worse. And theyīd do it my friend, you know why?

When you enter prision for the first time, if you donīt know the right ritual when entering the cell youīre raped by all the people in that cell (which can have up to 5 prisioners, but has 22) and beaten till you pass away. This may be repeated for days and days. (BTW, youīll probably get AIDS then. And when your wife goes visit you, bang! She gets AIDS from you! Beautiful huh?)

You leave prision MUCH WORSE than when you were back then.

Iīm full of joy to know that the probability to be killed by unfair reason has lowered 0.00000000000000000000000000001% because those people died. Because Iīm honest and work hard to have the life I have. And no one has the right to take that away. Or am I wrong?
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Post by: Grandy on March 02, 2006, 05:20:06 PM
"Oh, sorry, Mr. Bob, but Brazil has very very very worse criminals than yours, yeah, I do mean Columbine, so I guess I must kill every single one in a great and overexagerated generalization as the vigilante I am. After all, they know where I live and will  rape my entire family tree up to my grand grand childrem because that's why God put them in the world. I'm a lawyer, I know how things work, sitting in my office reading my pretty books. Remember kids: I'm judge, jury AND executiuoner."
 I wish it was that simple, really I do.

 ...

 No, I don't, it would take away all the greatness of it

 EDIT: Who knows more of a prision? You, who READ about it, or my cousin, who happens to be a prision guard?
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Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 05:25:28 PM
Pavillion 9 had only highly dangerous criminals. I went to Carandiru days before it was demolished and got everything about it. The other pavilions (the religious guys, the I donīt know what guys) didnīt suffer the attack.

There ya go.


EDIT: The word is not "worse" criminals, but "different".

EDIT2: And dude, for real, if you donīt know what it is like, donīt speak about it. You may be really mistaken and even be unfair to yourself. If, god forbid, anything happens to anyone close to you, hating wonīt be the answer. I study what Iīm talking about, and the best answer till now is death penalty.
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Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 05:27:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
quote:
Originally posted by charaman
quote:
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell.


I can't believe someone would say that. **** it. I'm done trying to comprehend any of this.

Let me just say that the fact that you hold yourself in such a regard as to judge such a situation is really unnerving to me.



I'm seeing a lot of insensitive comments in this thread about events, and theories (and opinions being presented as fact) that are making me ashamed to be a part of this discussion. You say you want to honor the dead but "oh only on my terms" or when it's convienient. Does any one here really believe the 9/11 conspiracies beng presented are at all sincerely representing the wishes of the dead? Please, people. reevaluate what you are saying before you try to critisize another person's insensitivity. People are people, whether they are ****** up or whatever, and it is not your job to pass judgement on the value of their lives, dead or alive.


Iīll tell you something, and you keep it for life, even though you donīt agree. If you want to understand my comment:

1) Step out, for one day, of Wonder Land. Step out of it and join the pain of opressing governments and insecurity.

2) Be opressed by someone. And not your parents, that take your videogame away. Be scared, feel fear from someone that has actually nothing to lose, that will kill you if you donīt give them your shoes.

3) Live somewhere, a 3rd world country, where the criminals have THE SAME FREAKING WEAPONS AS THE USA ARMY AND TAKE ON THE POLICE AND MANY TIMES WIN.

4) Step out of Wonder Land.

In Brazil, many of the criminals have no hope. Either they die, either you parents may get killed. Streets can be safe. Or not.
The diff between USA criminals and Brazilīs criminals is that in the USA the perfectness of everything, the routine and the steady life, the suburbs drive people crazy. The get f/cked up of the head and enter school with guns to kill their school mates (instead of trying to find new friends WTF!).

In Brazil they come to you and rob you. They are the law in many places, and most of the time theyīve got no mental problems. They were born in the horror of poverty, and persue the life they couldnīt have in the scared eyes of honest people.

They rob, they kill, they rape, they kidnap. And then walk away with your life.

Most of them HAVE to die (not to mention we waste more money with the penitentiary system than with education WTF v.2.2)



I don't disagree with you. **** life. **** government, **** everything. But please, please don't think that tyranny and violence and corruption and murder are defined by political borders: they happen everywhere and are a cruel reality of the fucked up systems that govern the planet. Sure, this can be more concentrated and prevalent in some places than others, but not everyone is my ****ing country is blind to the truth.

Government's supposed to be above that **** though. That's why many people (not me) place their trust in it. To have a country and penal system run by the same kind of tyrants that it is set up to punish is backwards, can't you see that? It's a system set up for failure.

In my OPINION, what the prisons should do is weed out the worst of the worst, force them to live in the worst, most cramped smallest solitary cells that can be found, and given only the bread an water necesary to sustain some sort of life.



The point here that I am making is not that bad men deserve to be pampered and rehabilitated, because most logical poeple know that won't work for many prisoners. They should not be butchered and killed according to the whims of the prison heirarchy.
Title:
Post by: Grandy on March 02, 2006, 05:34:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Pavillion 9 had only highly dangerous criminals. I went to Carandiru days before it was demolished and got everything about it. The other pavilions (the religious guys, the I donīt know what guys) didnīt suffer the attack.

There ya go.


EDIT: The word is not "worse" criminals, but "different".

EDIT2: And dude, for real, if you donīt know what it is like, donīt speak about it. You may be really mistaken and even be unfair to yourself. If, god forbid, anything happens to anyone close to you, hating wonīt be the answer. I study what Iīm talking about, and the best answer till now is death penalty.


 Do you really believe in everything you read? You was saying the justice doesn't works, I say that's mostly because of the news, sensor and turistic guides.

 
Quote
and the best answer till now is death penalty.

 And that's the answer I liked to hear, simple, easy to understand, and absurdaly against any morals whatsoever.
 I'll go with an easy sentence as well:
 "You're as good as they are."
Title:
Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on March 02, 2006, 05:36:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by charaman
quote:
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
quote:
Originally posted by charaman
quote:
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell.


I can't believe someone would say that. **** it. I'm done trying to comprehend any of this.

Let me just say that the fact that you hold yourself in such a regard as to judge such a situation is really unnerving to me.



I'm seeing a lot of insensitive comments in this thread about events, and theories (and opinions being presented as fact) that are making me ashamed to be a part of this discussion. You say you want to honor the dead but "oh only on my terms" or when it's convienient. Does any one here really believe the 9/11 conspiracies beng presented are at all sincerely representing the wishes of the dead? Please, people. reevaluate what you are saying before you try to critisize another person's insensitivity. People are people, whether they are ****** up or whatever, and it is not your job to pass judgement on the value of their lives, dead or alive.


Iīll tell you something, and you keep it for life, even though you donīt agree. If you want to understand my comment:

1) Step out, for one day, of Wonder Land. Step out of it and join the pain of opressing governments and insecurity.

2) Be opressed by someone. And not your parents, that take your videogame away. Be scared, feel fear from someone that has actually nothing to lose, that will kill you if you donīt give them your shoes.

3) Live somewhere, a 3rd world country, where the criminals have THE SAME FREAKING WEAPONS AS THE USA ARMY AND TAKE ON THE POLICE AND MANY TIMES WIN.

4) Step out of Wonder Land.

In Brazil, many of the criminals have no hope. Either they die, either you parents may get killed. Streets can be safe. Or not.
The diff between USA criminals and Brazilīs criminals is that in the USA the perfectness of everything, the routine and the steady life, the suburbs drive people crazy. The get f/cked up of the head and enter school with guns to kill their school mates (instead of trying to find new friends WTF!).

In Brazil they come to you and rob you. They are the law in many places, and most of the time theyīve got no mental problems. They were born in the horror of poverty, and persue the life they couldnīt have in the scared eyes of honest people.

They rob, they kill, they rape, they kidnap. And then walk away with your life.

Most of them HAVE to die (not to mention we waste more money with the penitentiary system than with education WTF v.2.2)



I don't disagree with you. **** life. **** government, **** everything. But please, please don't think that tyranny and violence and corruption and murder are defined by political borders: they happen everywhere and are a cruel reality of the ****** up systems that govern the planet. Sure, this can be more concentrated and prevalent in some places than others, but not everyone is my ******* country is blind to the truth.

Government's supposed to be above that **** though. That's why many people (not me) place their trust in it. To have a country and penal system run by the same kind of tyrants that it is set up to punish is backwards, can't you see that? It's a system set up for failure.

In my OPINION, what the prisons should do is weed out the worst of the worst, force them to live in the worst, most cramped smallest solitary cells that can be found, and given only the bread an water necesary to sustain some sort of life.



The point here that I am making is not that bad men deserve to be pampered and rehabilitated, because most logical poeple know that won't work for many prisoners. They should not be butchered and killed according to the whims of the prison heirarchy.



i agree with him that i do. i don't think people deserve death at all; there's no happiness to it; there's no productiveness to it. There's no life out of it. I for one understand what charaman say, but understand in a logical and believing manner.


anywho, i advice to derive from this tipoc before the thread turns into death b;ah blah. try to resume your POVs in the next set of posts. we are after all talking about a movie and how it may suck bcause it is too soon.
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 05:47:47 PM
I didnīt read it Grandy. I saw it. I belive things I see and things I canīt see.

I get what you say Charaman and youīre right about corruption and violence everywhere. Dude, my country has all that 5 stars!

When I said what I said about 9/11 I meant to say that everything in this world operated in a action-reaction system. You know what caused those events! But the media treats the whole thing and a blind, meaningless and reasonless act, when itīs actually not. The attack was sad, painful, ugly and cowardice. It WAS wrong because any kind of violence if wrong! But it began with a big load of wrong *********! Action and reaction.

A movie about those events could be a really good movie if it showed what makes a bunch of ***********-ups throw planes in big buildings, AND what man is capable of just to make a whole country suffer. As you said, the violence exist everywhere: in the US and in the Al Qaeda.

But what happened is Carandiru is a completely different case. The prisioners hurt someone for no reason and got locked up. Then again, they start hurting others! No one ever hurt them!

I belive in this: whenever you donīt adhere to something, like a strike or a gang, or a government (for example), it shows that you donīt agree with that in some level, and you "declare" not needy of those things.

Same works with human rights. I have the human right of LIFE. As soon as a person offends that right of mine, taking it away, he "declares" that he doesnīt agree with that, and loses the right to have his "human right" preserved! What punishment you be the most fair:

1) Living at the cost of my fatherīs work?

2) Dying, for what HE belived?

I don't belive that any kind of indenization, or he being locked up, will ever erase my mother's sadness.

EDIT: SOrry KM, I didnīt see your post...I was writing mine when you posted...

Keep up the censor work-arounds, Almeidaboo, and I won't edit your post next time, I have to delete it.
Title:
Post by: Grandy on March 02, 2006, 05:48:33 PM
Resume of my opinions:
 Death sentence is murder, only a legal murder, which doesn't change the fact it IS murder.

 
Quote
I saw it.

 Of course, you're older than you look and was arrested some days before it, either that or you didn't saw it.
Title:
Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 05:55:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
I belive in this: whenever you donīt adhere to something, like a strike or a gang, or a government (for example), it shows that you donīt agree with that in some level, and you "declare" not needy of those things.


The Social Contract. I agree wholly. But blanket punishment sort of crosses the line, in my opinion. A thief is different than a murderer, but has the potential to cross the line. I dont think he should be treated as a murderer until he becomes one. Am I saying that any one of the 111 killed wasn't a muderer? I really do not have the background to make such a statement, but no one who wasn't there (at the time of the incident) does, either, I don't think.



Ok, I'm done. Sorry KM/mods/admins.
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 06:05:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grandy
Resume of my opinions:
 Death sentence is murder, only a legal murder, which doesn't change the fact it IS murder.

 
quote:
I saw it.

 Of course, you're older than you look and was arrested some days before it, either that or you didn't saw it.


OK! NOW YOU CROSSED THE LINE!!

I DO NOT LOOK OLDER THAN I AM OK????????? THOSE WHITE HAIRS ARE RESULTANT OF TOO MUCH WORK!!!

LOL, sorry, it sounded funny in my head. Anyway, I didn' t mean I saw the massacre, sorry for the weird writing. I mean I saw the  prision system from the inside, the creepy stuff and all.

Charaman: Oh no, Iīm against non proportional punishment too. Thereīs simply no logic in killing a thief, Iīm totally with you in that one.

But as said before, the pavillion 9 was reserved to killers and highly-offensive criminals. (the massacre was a crime and it was cowardice of the policeman, but if we had a fair system, that would have been done anyway. Eye for an eye.)
Title:
Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 06:06:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
(the massacre was a crime and it was cowardice of the policeman, but if we had a fair system, that would have been done anyway. Eye for an eye.)


Ok. Thats all I was trying to get at.
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 06:08:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by charaman
quote:
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
(the massacre was a crime and it was cowardice of the policeman, but if we had a fair system, that would have been done anyway. Eye for an eye.)


Ok. Thats all I was trying to get at.


Yay! Iīm glad we could come to good terms. This was a great discussion, no flames and all. Weīre an example, you, me and Grandy!
Title:
Post by: Grandy on March 02, 2006, 06:14:16 PM
An example of not listening to orange names, maybe. *points to Kijuky's post*
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 02, 2006, 06:20:38 PM
 
Quote
Keep up the censor work-arounds, Almeidaboo, and I won't edit your post next time, I have to delete it.


Took me a while to get it, LOL...I was like, I didn't write in bold!

I thought some stuff were censored automatically...but then again I think I had put a ! so that it didnīt get censored...

Anyway, sorry!

*head bobs in Grandy's direction*
Title:
Post by: Revolution911 on March 02, 2006, 06:46:11 PM
....Wow. The first time I actually read one of these long *** debates.

Well HERES REV'S SUPER SHORT OPINION:

1) Criminals are bad everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Anyone who says that where they live is a hell hole and criminals are 10x worse needs to get over themselves.

2)Death penalty...meh. I find people are way too optimistic. Well er...good intentions dont always lead to good results. Take that as you wish.
Title:
Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on March 02, 2006, 07:34:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grandy
An example of not listening to orange names, maybe. *points to Kijuky's post*


Subconciously they did, for i said to finish in the next set of posts :P and so they did.

oh well.
Title:
Post by: Razor on March 02, 2006, 08:05:44 PM
Coincidence.


Anyway, who's gonna play George Bush? Will it be that guy from "That's my Bush"? That was a great show.
Title:
Post by: Moosetroop11 on March 02, 2006, 08:49:13 PM
Anyone realise that the attack on the twin towers was supposed to bring attention and cause fear? And not only did we give it a huge amount of publicity, we're not making the terrorist's wishes into a movie. I dunno, seems kinda stupid.
Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on March 02, 2006, 10:18:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
And not only did we give it a huge amount of publicity.


What exactly do we do with it then, forget?
Title:
Post by: charaman on March 02, 2006, 10:43:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Anyone realise that the attack on the twin towers was supposed to bring attention and cause fear? And not only did we give it a huge amount of publicity, we're not making the terrorist's wishes into a movie. I dunno, seems kinda stupid.


What they want is us to cower in fear. Making a movie abbout surviving it is what they don't want.
Title:
Post by: Drace on March 03, 2006, 07:30:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Grandy
Resume of my opinions:
 Death sentence is murder, only a legal murder, which doesn't change the fact it IS murder.


The same can be said about America bombing countries who might be a thread. It's terrorism, only a legal terrorism. Just felt like saying that.
Title:
Post by: carmen on March 03, 2006, 03:51:56 PM
wow...we really have gotten liberal haven't we?

Pacifisim isn't really possible. War , the old fasioned way, was actually good for humanity. It kept us from over populating, which in turn, kept resource consumption in check.

Also, Soldiers were soldiers. Big dumb men who go to fight. Of course they have a major role. But if you reall look at it, the smart small guy betters man kind, if you were a big soldier you wouldn't want that guy watching your back!

Roles in society have been skewedddaaaa....that's how I know we'll just all blow up one day. GAWD liberals=bad news.

I mean seriously, if you wanne Be THAT liberal...hell we should all be anarchists! even then for a society to work you need rules. Laws. A word to live by. And we're losing that as a society. The demoralization of our society is not because of the devil or technology,

It's due to us. Everything's about me, me ,me. What can I get, where can I be? I deserver this...and I deserve that. We're so wrapped up in our own freedoms, we forget our own rules to function in society. Brotherhood of man people!
LENNON, MARX, COME ON. DID WE LEARN NOTHING!?

eh it'll never happen.

but yeah. This movie is made to make money. That's about it. He loves doing a movie on this subject because he knows it will stir up stuff and get people to watch it.

I hate dust kickers. always mudding up the pond for their own amusement.
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 03, 2006, 04:03:30 PM
Somewhat I agree with how you picture the modern world m'dear Carmen.

It is selfish. Laws donīt work (cause no one really cares), people care only about having a good life for themselves, the center of the universe has been defined: every persons belly-buttons. Hell yeah thatīs how it turns out right now.

But y'know...Every one's efford, singularly, makes a difference, that I agree with. But no one is making any efford anymore. They go with the flow, moving on the line of belly-buttons.

Looking from the upside, we have come to a world of personal principals. I have my own, and thatīs what I follow. Itīs still selfish, I know.

I go for the following: never hurt nature, donīt kill, donīt invade other peopleīs sphere of rights, fight to have the best life for yourself and work for your kids education, sex heals everything and loveīs the answer, Eye for an eye.

But other people may not care about the nature, donīt give a damn about sex and so on. Thatīs where conflict appears. That's why we are already a kind os anarchy, but a weaker one. And itīll lead us to the end, no doubt about it.

But meh, thatīs just brainstorming...
Title:
Post by: Grandy on March 03, 2006, 06:38:41 PM
 You guys have a too pescimist vision of the world.
Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on March 03, 2006, 07:41:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grandy
You guys have a too pescimist vision of the world.


*Drowns Grandy in a half-full tub of water*
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 03, 2006, 07:48:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Grandy
You guys have a too pescimist vision of the world.


hM...Thatīs not really true, youīre mistaking pessimism for realism. You know my Brazillian friend, you live in a country where a 4 fingered president steals right in front of our eyes, we discover everything and nothingīs done about it! The government stealing from us is the hugest example of a selfish world ever. Plus, caring for people near you, your friends and family doesnīt make you any selfless, for you care about them, not everybody, anyone and everyone. You donīt cry and moan for all the people that die in the streets and you have never known, do you?

EDIT: Donīt take it to the heart everyone, itīs that my job is to discuss stuff...this' all practice exercice in the end...
Title:
Post by: charaman on March 03, 2006, 08:07:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Drace
quote:
Originally posted by Grandy
Resume of my opinions:
 Death sentence is murder, only a legal murder, which doesn't change the fact it IS murder.


The same can be said about America bombing countries who might be a thread. It's terrorism, only a legal terrorism. Just felt like saying that.


I agree. Just because we live here doesn't mean we support it.


Grandy- I agre with Almeida, thats just how things are. However, I am a pessimist.


Oh yeah... Carmen's anarchy comment. While it sounds immature, sometimes I feel it's better than what we have now.
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 03, 2006, 08:09:51 PM
I belive she was criticizing the fact that weīre to liberal and mentioned: "Yeah, go ahead idiots. Wait till I break in your house and stel your PlayStation 2 cause there are no authorities to punish me!!! *sigh* Or dear..."
Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on March 03, 2006, 08:49:00 PM
God I hate it when things turn into political debates, then you get a bunch of morons (not pointing any figures) that constantly complain that America's government is: "OMG, it's coruptzors!" "It sucks, war sucks, this war has no purpose!" "We are such hogs, this world is so bad, and it's the government's fault!" "We should totally rewrite the consitution so that peace is enbodied!" "Blah blah" " :frag: "
Title:
Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on March 03, 2006, 09:09:47 PM
i am a kenshin-like pacifist foo'
Title:
Post by: Grandy on March 03, 2006, 09:47:41 PM
 In real life Kenshin would be arrested and probaly get death sentence, he killed lot's in the past.

 And though I agree with Almeida, I do not think Lula is stealing, I think he is just very, very, very, VERY dumb. And besides:
 Collor < Lula
Title:
Post by: Kinslayer on March 03, 2006, 10:27:24 PM
Well, I don't know too much about Brazil's politys, but I learned that Lula privatized a sector of the Amazonas forest for deforestation, and I don't like that too much. Besides, he's a friend with our Kirchner, who's no saint of my devotion.
Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on March 04, 2006, 01:01:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Kinslayer
Well, I don't know too much about Brazil's politys, but I learned that Lula privatized a sector of the Amazonas forest for deforestation, and I don't like that too much. Besides, he's a friend with our Kirchner, who's no saint of my devotion.


WHAT???!?!?!?!? O.O

I DIDNīT KNOW THAT!
Title:
Post by: ZeroKirbyX on March 04, 2006, 01:13:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Almeidaboo
quote:
Originally posted by Kinslayer
Well, I don't know too much about Brazil's politys, but I learned that Lula privatized a sector of the Amazonas forest for deforestation, and I don't like that too much. Besides, he's a friend with our Kirchner, who's no saint of my devotion.


WHAT???!?!?!?!? O.O

I DIDNīT KNOW THAT!


It was bound to happen. You have to remember, when most men have power money seems to be worth anything.