Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: DragonBlaze on May 13, 2006, 04:16:35 PM

Title: Monster/Enemy AI
Post by: DragonBlaze on May 13, 2006, 04:16:35 PM

In a lot of games, monsters and enemies are just very stupid. They just attack random people and do random moves. Occasionally theres the smart one that'll heal themselves when their hp is low. But they never all gang up on one person to kill them, they never go after your healer in your party, they're just... dumb.

So anywayz, I'm working on differant AI settings for my customizable CBS, each monster will have an AI intelegence level 1 - 5, (1 being just random moves, 5 being a very smart stratagist).

So what are some stratagies you use when fighting enemies? What do you think enemy AI should be like?

Title:
Post by: ZeroKirbyX on May 13, 2006, 04:32:56 PM

Some should be dumb and you fight them in large numbers, but then you have random enimies (Usually different colors of the dumber ones) that know who to attack. Maybe have those attack the weakest defense wise and such.

Title:
Post by: FFL2and3rocks on May 13, 2006, 04:39:56 PM

Bosses should become smarter once their HP is running low.

Title:
Post by: Weerd Thing on May 13, 2006, 05:24:43 PM

I think the weaker enemies should have less AI, but the predators (strong enemies) should be able to adjust their fighting strategy better. Bosses should be very, very smart.

W££rd

Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on May 13, 2006, 05:28:20 PM

Well, as for AI, you need a lot of that in ABS. So, here's a few combinations I use:

Quick, Hard to hit, low HP, Semi-Smart AI (Meaning it will target you and attack you, but won't run from you or move toward you unless it's attack).

Strong, Easy to hit, Slow, High HP, Dumb AI.

Weak, Easy to hit, Slow, Low HP, Dumb AI, Normally grouped with other dumb AI.

Weak, Hard to hit, Slow, Magic or special weapon is required to hit it, Smart AI, Normally alone.

Slow, Uses magic, low HP, High area of damage, Normally placed in an out-of-the-way spot, Smart AI (It will run from you and specifically target you).

Slow, Using Healing, No attacks, Normally placed in an out-of-the-way spot OR two are placed in the same area, Smart AI (It will heal enemies that are low on health, and run from you).

As for Bosses, you should just make those as smart as you can. They don't have to be super powerful, but they should be smart, always targeting the weakest character, healing when needed, and using stat boosting spells before he attacks.

I know these don't help a whole lot because you're using a FF style battle system, but they might help some.

Title:
Post by: Shadowless1 on May 13, 2006, 06:14:03 PM

i think, the best looking ones should have most AI, and the ugly stupid looking ones have low

Title:
Post by: DragonBlaze on May 13, 2006, 06:31:11 PM

Lol, the point isn't which monsters should be smarter or not, its what stratagies should smart enemies use :p Or basically what stratagies do you use when fighting enemies. I'll then adapt that to differant AI settings in the cbs. You can assign each enemies AI seperately, so I'm not too worried about which type of enemy should get good AI and which ones shouldn't :p

So yeah, I need ideas on what to base my AI setting on :)

When I fight enemies, I usually go for the weaker ones first, that way, they won't bother me when I go for the strong one, but if one starts to heal the others, I always focus my attacks on that one.

Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on May 13, 2006, 06:36:02 PM

Well, Healing enemies should be annoying. There could also be enemies that cause status effects (which are the ones I normally go for first). However, my stragety of fighting those kind of games is eliminating the largest threat first, then focusing on things I could care less about. Normally, something threatening to me is something that has the option to attack often, or in some cases, before I can attack.

Title:
Post by: X_marks_the_ed on May 13, 2006, 08:41:49 PM

-An enemy should provide a challenge. The enemy should know what character can easily take them out, so they avoid them while attacking the others.

-Enemies should run if their health is low.

-Enemies should be able to kill and/or each other.

-One should be tougher than the rest, showing leadership in parties.

-All enemie parties should have some strategy. (For example, a strong monster that can only deal damage if the opponent is incapacitated, and a monster that can freeze, allowing the first monster to get in some massive damage and force the player to increase their defense.)

Italics = edit #1

Title:
Post by: Arcanagirl on May 13, 2006, 09:37:54 PM

In games I play, I find it harder to beat monsters that heal themselves, know who to attack, like if I just revived a dead member, I hate it when bad guys attack the dying, then I have to go and revive them again.

some good ones would be every so often they plan super/special attacks.

You can make some characters picky on who they attack, like maybe a stuck up guy baddy who only attacks male characters, or AI of where the baddy only attacks the weak, or the strong characters..I have seen some games like that and it makes a good challenge.

Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on May 13, 2006, 09:43:22 PM

Quote

Originally posted by X_marks_the_ed
-Enemies whould be able to each other.

Indeed, enemies w(s)hould be able to.

Title:
Post by: Razor on May 13, 2006, 09:44:26 PM

Quote

Originally posted by X_marks_the_ed
-Enemies whould be able to each other.

I think he means "heal" or "kill", but most likely the former.

Anyway, whilst giving AI to bosses, keep in mind that, if this guy is the boss of the brain dead retarded rat-monkeys, chances are he isn't that smart, or else he would have got a smarter bunch of goons, or at least changed their name.

Title:
Post by: DragonBlaze on May 13, 2006, 10:37:12 PM

Thanks guys :) This is helping.

 

Quote

Anyway, whilst giving AI to bosses, keep in mind that, if this guy is the boss of the brain dead retarded rat-monkeys, chances are he isn't that smart, or else he would have got a smarter bunch of goons, or at least changed their name.

Lol yeah. This is for my customizable cbs, so people will be able to chose who gets to be smart and who gets to be dumb :p

You know, it would be cool to have enemeis that can kill eachother and can heal eachother. For example, there could be monsters or something on the field that could be placed as a monster, but really are fighting against the monsters

And having them go for the members who just got revived would be annoying as hell, but it'd be cool :)

Title:
Post by: Desimodontidae on May 13, 2006, 10:53:36 PM

Hmm...

In my game, the enemies' are pretty fucken stupid. Their AI: "Move Towards Hero"... heh.

Bosses however are (in the process of being made) awesome. As FFL said, they get smarter (and harder) as their HP lows. They occasionally heal themselves, and stuff like that. One of them Im making like the boss from Eve of Extinction; the colour of the boss determines what weapon you should use. And then I have another one where you can't attack him, you have to alter the environment around you (whilst dodging attacks) to defeat him.

Yeah.. stuff like that. Its good to be innovative. And creative.

I have a whole bunch more ideas for bosses written down, and enemies, but I wouldnt want people to steal my ideas now would I?

Title:
Post by: X_marks_the_ed on May 13, 2006, 11:01:01 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Razor

quote:

Originally posted by X_marks_the_ed -Enemies whould be able to each other.

I think he means "heal" or "kill", but most likely the former.

I actually meant both. My bad. I like games where the monster's spells mess up and hit their allies by mistake.

-I would also like, if possible, to see grudges. For example, a hero/monster hits their ally by messing a spell/attack. The character/monster hurt then either:

A.ignores that allies' weak health and will not heal them.
B.refuses to group-attack with that ally.
C.goes insane and hits that ally right back until they die.

Title:
Post by: Meiscool-2 on May 13, 2006, 11:45:21 PM

Well, I just thought of this, but any easy strategy battle is this:

Three Enemies:

Healer
Reflect Caster
Mage that can only be damaged by magic.

The healer will be the first to go, then the Reflector, then the Caster.

The Healer Heals

The Reflector casts reflect on the Mage, then on himself.

The Mage casts magic on himself, hence, there's no way to reflect it.

Really, it's just ment to be a long and annoying battle.

Title:
Post by: Desimodontidae on May 14, 2006, 12:57:45 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Meiscool
Well, I just thought of this, but any easy strategy battle is this:

Three Enemies:

Healer
Reflect Caster
Mage that can only be damaged by magic.

The healer will be the first to go, then the Reflector, then the Caster.

The Healer Heals

The Reflector casts reflect on the Mage, then on himself.

The Mage casts magic on himself, hence, there's no way to reflect it.

Really, it's just ment to be a long and annoying battle.

Ehh. I'd prefer a stronger enemy with two small subordinates who keep him in check. And those subordinates can only be attacked with a certain kind of magic. Kind of like that guy in FF8 with the orbs... slightly different though.

Title:
Post by: Razor on May 14, 2006, 01:11:50 AM

Or that undead guy in Cosmo Canyon, FF7. You know the one.

Title:
Post by: Linkizcool on May 14, 2006, 04:18:29 AM

I also like enemies that use combo attacks, like i.e. a guy uses a skill that lowers resistance to fire, then shoots a fire arrow the next turn. Stuff that makes the enemy seem like he has a strategy.

Title:
Post by: Prpl_Mage on May 14, 2006, 06:23:00 AM

Well, basicly the smarter ones should work in group and attack a target untill it´s dead.
And use status problem skills early in the battle. And the 'Weakness' spells should be cast at a strong hero or someone that got buffed. And healing spells should be very timed and the self-destruct as well.All weakness spells should be used when needed, and magic-types that the hero have resistance against should not be used.

And i think you should try to put in a "Aggro system" kind of, If a person heals/use potion the monsters is more lilky to attack those heroes because they are the biggest threat.
And if they have a big high-attack hero standing there and hitting them they shouldn´t try to attack your sneaky character that for the moment is only using 'Steal'. Magics should  get the monsters to attack you, unless the high-attack hero is inflicting more damage or something.

Low AI monsters should just attack random, at least...Lest say an elephant, they are big and neutral, in other words not predators. This should result in a lower AI.
The elephant who is not that used to battle  will mainly try to hit whoever is hitting him. But the zombie is agresive and will eat you for your flesh, but because the most parts of the brain is rotten the AI is low here too. The zombie will attack the character with lowest HP just to finish them of. Thus I doubt a zombie would try to eat a fit-for-fight boxer imstead of a wounded rogue.

And the higher ones(and some between) should be able to do 'combos', one does a 'ice ress down' and the other one use 'icebolt', one use haste the other one slow.
And if your battle system will differ where the characters stand(,Hero1 is in the back and next to him is Hero2 but a bit away from them in the front is Hero3. The monsters are all standing in a line). If they do, a spell should be able to hit your Hero1 & 2, and your 'fire-breath' should be able to burn all of the monsters standing in the line-like formation.

I hope that I was clear enough.

Title:
Post by: Drace on May 14, 2006, 08:08:31 AM

An agro-system. Like in WoW? The mobs (enemies) there attack the ones that have the most agro. You raise your agro by doing the most damage, most critical hits, healing, powerfull spells etc.

It's a nice system.

Title:
Post by: Prpl_Mage on May 14, 2006, 10:16:37 AM

Quote

Originally posted by Drace
An agro-system. Like in WoW? The mobs (enemies) there attack the ones that have the most agro. You raise your agro by doing the most damage, most critical hits, healing, powerfull spells etc.

It's a nice system.

Yeah, that´s pretty much what I had in mind.

Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on May 14, 2006, 12:29:36 PM

Easy games suck, but impossible hard games suck even more. So make it "normal" level, otherwise it´ll suck.

Title:
Post by: Desimodontidae on May 14, 2006, 12:49:01 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Easy games suck, but impossible hard games suck even more. So make it "normal" level, otherwise it´ll suck.

DMC 3

Title:
Post by: Almeidaboo on May 14, 2006, 01:39:38 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Desimodontidae

quote:

Originally posted by Almeidaboo Easy games suck, but impossible hard games suck even more. So make it "normal" level, otherwise it´ll suck.

DMC 3

It´s too easy, too hard or in the right measure?

Title:
Post by: Desimodontidae on May 14, 2006, 01:55:45 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Almeidaboo

quote:

Originally posted by Desimodontidae quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo Easy games suck, but impossible hard games suck even more. So make it "normal" level, otherwise it´ll suck. DMC 3

It´s too easy, too hard or in the right measure?

Its insanely hard on normal for the first few levels. Its almost impossible on any other difficulty levels (for me, anyways). I have a friend who beat the "Kill Dante" mode or whatever it was, who thought that normal and hard were easy.

Title:
Post by: Drace on May 14, 2006, 03:23:19 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Desimodontidae

quote:

Originally posted by Almeidaboo quote: Originally posted by Desimodontidae quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo Easy games suck, but impossible hard games suck even more. So make it "normal" level, otherwise it´ll suck. DMC 3 It´s too easy, too hard or in the right measure?

Its insanely hard on normal for the first few levels. Its almost impossible on any other difficulty levels (for me, anyways). I have a friend who beat the "Kill Dante" mode or whatever it was, who thought that normal and hard were easy.

So basicly, you suck in DMC 3?

Title:
Post by: Desimodontidae on May 14, 2006, 04:32:05 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Drace

quote:

Originally posted by Desimodontidae quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo quote: Originally posted by Desimodontidae quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo Easy games suck, but impossible hard games suck even more. So make it "normal" level, otherwise it´ll suck. DMC 3 It´s too easy, too hard or in the right measure? Its insanely hard on normal for the first few levels. Its almost impossible on any other difficulty levels (for me, anyways). I have a friend who beat the "Kill Dante" mode or whatever it was, who thought that normal and hard were easy.

So basicly, you suck in DMC 3?

Yep, thats about it.

Title:
Post by: Archem on May 14, 2006, 05:07:31 PM

I never played DMC, but I don't really like the kind of game it is. My friend says it's hard, but it looks like he just sucks. Actually, it looks like one of those games that you can just jump around and shoot all the time, and never have to really do anything.

Title:
Post by: Drace on May 14, 2006, 05:10:36 PM

Quote

Originally posted by Archem2
I never played DMC, but I don't really like the kind of game it is. My friend says it's hard, but it looks like he just sucks. Actually, it looks like one of those games that you can just jump around and shoot all the time, and never have to really do anything.

How did you know that if you didn't play it?

Title:
Post by: Sephiroth rocks on May 14, 2006, 05:19:58 PM

Well here's a few ideas:
1. The enemy casts some you-die-in-X-turns-ish at the beginning of the battle.
2. The enemy can counterspell. (like spellcanceling)
3. If you have a FF jump-like command the enemy can cast some badass attack every 3rd turn or so.

Title:
Post by: DragonBlaze on May 14, 2006, 05:42:42 PM

Cool, thanks guys :)

@meiscool, in a situation like that, I'd just cast reflect on my own guys and cast magic on them so their reflects won't be able to block it :p