Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Almeidaboo on June 16, 2006, 12:59:56 AM

Title: Thoughts on things.
Post by: Almeidaboo on June 16, 2006, 12:59:56 AM

Well, recently I got very interested in spriting. I really want to learn it and do my own stuff. But self-teaching is something you can do with certain things in life, notr everything. It´s good to have someone giving you tips and following your progress, monitoring you.

So I was thinking about this: what if some of our oficial artist from Charas made some kind of "school"? It could take place at the Tutorial section, and could work like this:

For example, ZKX offers basic spriting lessons, and people join it. He posts all the lessons specs: number of steps, duration time, difficulty and pre-requisites to take those lessons (like, he says that only the ones that took another of his or someone else´s lessons can participate). Then he´d post the week's or month's lesson and "homework".

After that, until the next lesson, the students would have to post their homework and ZKX would check em and give the tips, corrections to be made and so on!

That could easily work, and would help to improve the forum's creations ina general way.

That could work for pixelart (which interests me at the moment), midi and so on.

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Post by: charaman on June 16, 2006, 01:07:16 AM

Sounds like a good idea, but I don't know how much demand/supply there would be. Seems a bit too organized for this place.

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on June 16, 2006, 01:10:29 AM

Freaky, I was thinking about this awhle back. There a few guys from another site I was talking it over with and I was gonna contact Insane and Jericho to see if they'd be game, but it just fell apart. Eaten by life. Granted it was gonna be a new forum entirely, but yeh.

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 16, 2006, 01:11:37 AM

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Originally posted by charaman
Sounds like a good idea, but I don't know how much demand/supply there would be. Seems a bit too organized for this place.

We gotta put more faith in it, otherwise it won´t happen :D

Yeah ZKX, I know it´s a bit hard to idealize in the end, but it´d be such a great efford! We´d attract even more people to the forums, and give it new life, since RPG Maker hasn´t exacly been our business lately...

EDIT: I was inspired by this:  http://spriteart.com
But my idea comes witht  the teachers, correcting our mistakes and making things clearer!

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on June 16, 2006, 01:33:46 AM

I regularly vist SA. I'm no where near as good as those guys, but I've been alot more serious lateley, meaning less RM2K stuff.

Almei, your idea sounds like somethin on another drawing site I'm helpin to build up. There would be mentor classes. You take the tutorial, and if you want to, you show it to one of the mentors and they'll help you. Of course, you don't even have to show it to em, but if you want help, you can. Is that how I understand it?
Note: I'm not a drawing mentor XD

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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on June 16, 2006, 01:49:01 AM

I could help you too. It will give me a reason to also go back to spriting... ince I trully miss it, and as of this saturday, I'll have cable internet, so I'll certainly can be online.

As for learning, spriting can be something you can learn yourself, but like anything else in art you do require inspiration ad well as help and even critique, and perhaps people who steal your stuff.

perhaps i should finish some sprites i left unfinished...

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Post by: coasterkrazy on June 16, 2006, 01:50:37 AM

Hmmm... I might be able to do something along the lines of that for midis. However, the prerequisites would have to automatically be basic knowledge of music thoery, or maybe I can do lessons for those too! Sounds like a decent idea, hope we can pull it off somehow...

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on June 16, 2006, 01:54:49 AM

If Kij joined it could work. Maybe for lessons we could teach like people ACTUALLY lean. Most people don't start doing 100% custom stuff like tuts show. We could start off with recolors, then go on to editing with a base, the custom stuff.

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Post by: Meiscool-2 on June 16, 2006, 02:26:08 AM

Something like this could also be done for mapping and coding, if we found the people. Course, it would be somewhat different. You can't "recolor" a map (only the chip) and all maps are custom made to start with.

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Post by: DragonBlaze on June 16, 2006, 02:37:52 AM

Lol. Yeah, if we make a school for spriting, coding, and mapping, that should pretty much cover everything :p

I could teach coding if I weren't so lazy  :lazy:

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Post by: Meiscool-2 on June 16, 2006, 02:45:24 AM

I could do both, but I lose pactience very easily, so I probally wouldn't make a good teacher or choice unless people were really in need of me.

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Post by: DragonBlaze on June 16, 2006, 02:58:34 AM

Well I could teach coding if we do something like this, it could be fun. :)  Theres also a bunch of other good coders who would be great teachers like you and warxe.

Then I think robotam and you would be great at mapping school, only thing is that there are already a few long mapping tutorials that basically go through everything already.

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Post by: Razor on June 16, 2006, 05:05:12 AM

We could always maybe make a new section.

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 16, 2006, 09:53:48 AM

Hell yeah, I like the spirit this thing is having right now!

ZKX: like that site I posted, we should start with the basics, like line and anti-aliasing. Because, as you said, no one can do custom things from the beginnning!

KJ: YOur help would be vital for the thing to go off! We should first:

-make masters subscriptions
-a relevancy (?) judment when it comes to subject (among the subscripted masters, of course) and the levels of them.
-if there are coliding specialties, the distribution of them.
-The offering of classes;
-the students subscription period.

If more is needed, just say...this actually the brainstorming that comes to me now, since I just woke up and I´m also eating while I type...XD

coasterkrazy: your help would also be great!!! I´d really appreciate it!

DragonBlaze & Meiscool: you, stop being lazy!!! And you, be more patient!!!

Razor: You know you´re the man right?

C'mon people, we can make this happen!

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Post by: Fang_of_blades on June 16, 2006, 12:20:40 PM

i like the idea  :D  everyone helping everyone else is the way ta be man ^_^

and being patient isn't something ya can just do, ya have to learn to be patient  which lol takes patience. like to help with it, be patient for the ps3 or the wii or x-mas, whatever it is and gradually work ya way up, thats how you get patience ^_^

like me.... i waited 14 years for a girl friend ^_^;;;;; v.v (no not on purpose)

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Post by: DarkFlood2 on June 16, 2006, 12:53:40 PM

This has got to be the best idea that I've seen on charas (no offense) I would be all for it.

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Post by: Razor on June 16, 2006, 12:59:57 PM

I feel you were replying to me for the sheer sake of replying to me.

And damn right I know I'm the man!

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Post by: Apex on June 16, 2006, 02:45:13 PM

Where is Ghost Clown, I thought he specialized in this?

By the way, not that I am a profesional or anything... But I Find it alot easier when using a current made character set, to base a custom made one off of, sort of like a trace..

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 16, 2006, 02:52:06 PM

There, more people are noticing this...

Fang: I´ve been in this forum for a long time now, and this I can say: very talented people dwell here. And I have many things I want to learn, and this I can say: guidance makes everything easier. We have all the factors needed, all we need is to make a move! If we can make this happen, it´d be the utmost awesomeness! Maybe more talent will arise from this iniciative!!

Dark: Thanks dude  :D

Razor: you  are the man...man. You too could help us get this thing real, so move yer ***!

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Post by: Fortet on June 16, 2006, 02:55:58 PM

Sounds great! I'm gettin' good a makin' faces. I can use AA on faces, I just like the feel of the black outlining. XD As well as the crappy shading techniques. I can shade pretty well if I have the patience. >_>

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on June 16, 2006, 07:40:03 PM

Another thought hit me, before you can sprite you need to hold a basic understanding of figure and such. Maybe blaze of rev could do like a basic anatomy thing.

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Post by: Desimodontidae on June 16, 2006, 08:09:23 PM

Sounds gay. Why not just post a very well written, easy to follow tutorial, and then let people come to it as they please?

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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on June 16, 2006, 08:12:44 PM

because we'd like to see the outcome of what we do.

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Post by: Meiscool-2 on June 16, 2006, 08:34:43 PM

Yeah... the 2 best parts of teaching: 1) getting to see what your students create due to your teaching. 2) knowing you're better then the person asking for your assistance.

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Post by: GaryCXJk on June 16, 2006, 09:31:24 PM

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Originally posted by Almeidaboo
no one can do custom things from the beginnning!

Not true. My first sprite, Kevin Keene, was fully custom, not even a single edit. Given, it's crud compared to the current version, but still.

To give you an idea of my first version:

Kevin Keene (http://csp.multiverseworks.com/spritesheets/garycxjk/KevinKeeneSpriteSheetv0.1.png)

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 17, 2006, 12:09:39 AM

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Originally posted by GaryCXJk

quote:

Originally posted by Almeidaboo no one can do custom things from the beginnning!

Not true. My first sprite, Kevin Keene, was fully custom, not even a single edit. Given, it's crud compared to the current version, but still.

To give you an idea of my first version:

Kevin Keene

Okay, but that´s not a general thing. Maybe at spriting this was possible to you; what about other things?

The public we aim here is exacly people that need guidance to learn certain things. If the person thinks he can do it by himself, he needn´t subscribe to the  lessons.

 

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because we'd like to see the outcome of what we do.

Perfecly said KJ. Not just the students will have a better notion of what they´re doing and have criticism to base themselves, but also the teachers will learn new ways to see what they do and how they express it. Not to mention the feeling that Meiscool unintentially pointed, the feeling to pass on knowledge, help others and the community.

Plus, I´m thinking of something more...personal. Interaction is the word.

I was also thinking of a kind of...premium identification for the teachers. Like, after a well applyed course, the teacher would earn a "badge" of "teacher", master and so on. Course, this just to give the whole thing some more "charm" and make it more interesting, but if it is too hard to do, just leave it outside.

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Post by: Desimodontidae on June 17, 2006, 12:47:47 AM

It moght prove interesting. But I can definatly see n00bs who think they're better than everyone because they have the "I passed spriting school" badge popping up. Wont that be fun?

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on June 17, 2006, 12:53:36 AM

Hey, just because you have a liscence doesn't mean people won't call you a dumbass if you cant drive.

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 17, 2006, 01:18:34 AM

Oh, I think I may have said it wrong: the badges would go for the masters. The students would only get the certificate, not only to prevent them from being cocky.

If a student wanted a teacher license, he´d need to make several works (determined by the teacher) and they´d go to judgement by a group of teachers with the master badge. If the works make it through with a minimun grade, the student earns the right to teach too.

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Post by: WarxePB on June 17, 2006, 02:29:41 AM

Sounds like an interesting idea, but I tend to agree with Asa and Charaman. I have better ways to use my time anyways.

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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on June 17, 2006, 02:32:06 AM

this would actually help me in my workfield. I talk to a few instructors in college. Sprite artists who are graphic designers get a welll good amount of job and pay.

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 17, 2006, 10:26:19 AM

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Originally posted by Kijuki_Magazaki
this would actually help me in my workfield. I talk to a few instructors in college. Sprite artists who are graphic designers get a welll good amount of job and pay.

Like Mimesong, from rmxp.net. Not just that but mimesong did sprites for a job!

 

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Sounds like an interesting idea, but I tend to agree with Asa and Charaman. I have better ways to use my time anyways.

I really thinnk you do, but what I´m to make here is a low time consuming thing, specially for masters. I had already in mind that not many people would step up just for the sake of it. That´s exacly why I though in two week lessons. Day 1 the teacher posts the lesson. Day 14 he´d check the thread again to see the homeworks. In 1 post he´d correct all the lessons. If more time is needed, stabilish it in the classes proposal. For the students, day 1 they receive the theory and the homework. They´d have till day 14 to do it.

That´s doable right? And c'mon Warxe, we´d really need you.

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Post by: Robotam on June 17, 2006, 12:26:53 PM

Charas school? School sucks. :p
It's a cool idea, I might help in whatever way I can if you manage to make something out of this.

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Post by: DarkFlood2 on June 17, 2006, 01:24:46 PM

Well, What are you guys waiting for?
This is a good idea and it'll be excellent for me because it's the field i'm looking into.

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Post by: Spike21 on June 17, 2006, 01:49:42 PM

i would defenetly join. i would love to see this done

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Post by: X_marks_the_ed on June 17, 2006, 04:41:38 PM

I'd definitely take the course. My sprites always come out wrong, even when ripping.

I need more practice. See for yourself, my spriting sucks.

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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on June 17, 2006, 07:05:51 PM

WHy'd yeh post Mr. Sun? O_o

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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on June 17, 2006, 08:07:35 PM

well if its too happen we cant just doopley tee doo and say there we have it. There organization to be done.

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Post by: X_marks_the_ed on June 17, 2006, 10:08:17 PM

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Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
WHy'd yeh post Mr. Sun? O_o

Because I'm currently ripping Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland Sprites for the moment. I'm ripping NES sprites for my website.

To show that my spriting sucks, which is why i'd probably take the course if it is established.

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Post by: WarxePB on June 17, 2006, 10:34:20 PM

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KM
well if its too happen we cant just doopley tee doo and say there we have it.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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Al
That´s doable right? And c'mon Warxe, we´d really need you.

Do you really want me to list all of the reasons that I won't do this?

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Post by: Kijuki_Magazaki on June 17, 2006, 10:35:43 PM

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Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade

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KM well if its too happen we cant just doopley tee doo and say there we have it.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

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Al That´s doable right? And c'mon Warxe, we´d really need you.

Do you really want me to list all of the reasons that I won't do this?

you need to speak kijuki to understand it, duh

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 18, 2006, 01:17:09 AM

 

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Do you really want me to list all of the reasons that I won't do this?

Yes, please. I need reasons to understand and accept why a guy with so much to share like you wouldn´t like to do it :D Plus, you´ve always been pro the community, so I find it weird. Don´t take me wrong here, I just think of you as a awesome addition to the whole thing.

Kijuki: You´re right, we need organization now. And I count on you guys to do it. I was gonna proceed to opening the teachers subscription, but we need to organize things first.

I was thinking of this, for a start:

Phase 1: Teachers subscription and course proposals.

This would be divided in 2 phases:

1.1 Subscription
1.2 Course presentation and proposal.

1.1 is easy: hey, I wanna teach. Done. 1.2 is crucial cause the teachers-to-be would show us what they´re gonna teach, in this format:

Course name:
Teacher name:
Difficulty:
Prerequisites (if any):
Duration:
Lessons per week:
Max number of students: (based oin the teacher´s "time to spare")
General information:
Extra information:


I think that´ll do. After that a "council", which I vote for being formed by mods would judge the proposal and accept or deny it (with explanation, based on possibility of being done, relevance and conflict with forum rules [ex. porn downloading lessons...sorry Drace]). If permission is denied, time will be given to the teacher-to-be to fix his proposal.

How does it sound?

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Post by: DragonBlaze on June 18, 2006, 02:11:13 AM

Sounds pretty simple, let me give this a little test...

1.1 I wanna teach  :vict:

1.2

Course name: Coding in rm2k/3 101
Teacher name: DragonBlaze
Difficulty: Starts easy, gets hard
Prerequisites (if any): Know how to use variables, switches, and forks to some extent
Duration: However long it takes (couple of months)
Lessons per week: 2
Max number of students: 20
General information: It'll start off with general coding stratagies such as breaking down a system, how to plan a script out, then it'll take that knowlage and apply it to many various rm2k3 scripts. The basics of custom menu systems, custom battle systems, and algorithms will also be covered.
Extra information: Students will be able to pop out custom systems like pros by time they complete this course  ;)


So does that work out good?

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Post by: Almeidaboo on June 18, 2006, 10:52:07 AM

Quote

Originally posted by DragonBlaze
Sounds pretty simple, let me give this a little test...

1.1 I wanna teach  :vict:

1.2

Course name: Coding in rm2k/3 101
Teacher name: DragonBlaze
Difficulty: Starts easy, gets hard
Prerequisites (if any): Know how to use variables, switches, and forks to some extent
Duration: However long it takes (couple of months)
Lessons per week: 2
Max number of students: 20
General information: It'll start off with general coding stratagies such as breaking down a system, how to plan a script out, then it'll take that knowlage and apply it to many various rm2k3 scripts. The basics of custom menu systems, custom battle systems, and algorithms will also be covered.
Extra information: Students will be able to pop out custom systems like pros by time they complete this course  ;)


So does that work out good?

That's it, that's what I had in mind! Though I have to ask....how are you gonna keep track of the homeworks? Via screenshot?

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Post by: Tomi on June 18, 2006, 05:31:10 PM

This sounds really cool, and, like Kijuki, it would give me an excuse to get back into spriting.  I don't know if I would have the time to do a school myself, but I have another idea on how people could help.  You know that lots of people won't have enough time to have their own school, so if people paired up, one with lots of time, and one with not so much, they can work together to make it even better, and lighten the homework grading load.  Its like the assistant teachers in actual schools.  Then, if time clears up, then they can break off and start their own school too, with the experience from the last.  So, whadaya say?  (Thats how I'd probably have to do it...)

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Post by: Spike21 on June 18, 2006, 05:52:27 PM

... i want to teach something but i can't because i suck at every thing  :cry: . But the real reason i am posting is that we need someone to organize "when" the classes will take place.

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Post by: Tomi on June 18, 2006, 06:29:56 PM

I believe that they are just tutorials that you sign up for (with teacher help of course)

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Post by: Spike21 on June 18, 2006, 06:43:49 PM

ahh yes thank you.

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Post by: DragonBlaze on June 18, 2006, 11:13:56 PM

 

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That's it, that's what I had in mind! Though I have to ask....how are you gonna keep track of the homeworks? Via screenshot?

Well in a coding course it would probably be best if they would just send the map that the script is on if its an on-map event. If its a common event, then they could just send the RPG_RT files from the project folder. I'd have to go over how to do all that stuff though. Students could e-mail the files or I could maybe set up a website where they can just upload them to make it easier.

If its a spriting or mapping course, it would probably be best to keep track of homework via screenshots/spritesheet (or whatever image is used. Or if its a mapping course with a big map, if just the whole map file was sent through an e-mail or something.

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Post by: Meiscool-2 on June 19, 2006, 12:29:28 AM

If I were the mapping teacher, I would want the map sent to me. Screenshots can be horridly misleading, as they don't show events, and can be edited with photoshop to make lighting effects that otherwise wouldn't be put into games (I know of someone that did this in a mapping contest on Gdvclan)