Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: oooog on January 25, 2007, 01:35:51 AM

Title: Art
Post by: oooog on January 25, 2007, 01:35:51 AM: As many of you may or may not know, I am fairly artistic, or like to believe I am. I am however lacking artistic sense to determine stories behind art, and why these stories are so important. Allow me to give an example.

A few days ago, some people came to our school looking for work in the art classes to put in a local art show and potentially give out some award money. There were basically two projects who were the favorites. One was mine, and the other was my friends. His project was this gothic black and white painting of a black figure wandering through dark red foggy buildings with a large crow in the corner watching the person. The clouds and fog were newspaper clippings. The figure represented a dark conscious, the buildings represent life, the crow represents his dark soul controlling it, and the newspaper were meant to represent fragments of the persons life.

My picture was an asian inspired samurai looking at a cresent moon. There was also a nice looking tree, and well drawn out snow. I would post a picture, but it was 4 ft by 1ft in scroll form, to give an asian scroll effect. There was no story behind it however, but it was voted best eye candy. When it came down between the two of us, he presented his, and they were impressed. They wandered over to my project, and they loved it, and when they asked me the story behind it, I said there was no story, it was just a cool picture. They looked at me like I was stupid, and said they will make their decision later.

In the end, they picked my friends project, and he won 1st place (I'm proud of him, don't get me wrong.) I just want to know why art has to have a story behind them in order for them to be good, and can't just look nice.

Questions, concerns, comments?
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Post by: DragonBlaze on January 25, 2007, 02:04:55 AM: Art is more than a cool picture. Giving a picture a story gives everything in the piece more meaning and emotion, otherwise, its just another picture.
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Post by: Osmose on January 25, 2007, 02:12:20 AM: I never understood that either. Art *can* have a deep meaning behind it, but art that is drawn simply because a person is good at art and likes to draw stuff that looks cool is still art, just not as deep as other art.

People who do art because of the meanings behind it complain that their work is misunderstood just because it isn't well made. Nowadays it's the reverse - art that's drawn to look cool is misunderstood as being stale when it's just as valid art as any other painting.
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on January 25, 2007, 02:16:23 AM: Someone sounds bitter.

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Originally posted by DragonBlaze
Art is more than a cool picture. Giving a picture a story gives everything in the piece more meaning and emotion, otherwise, its just another picture.

That's exactly it. If you look at any piece of art, be it sculpture, picture, etc, and you don't know what to think or feel, the artist didn't really do a good piece of art. That feeling can be that you can feel conflict from a fight, sorrow from the rain, or even just a simple "Kickass." The story doesn't have to be something really deep and philosophical, it just has to have SOMETHING, even if it's as simple as "It's a samurai staring at the moon," it's still got a story. Now, you'll come around and say that that was just to be inferred, but YOU, the artist, said it had no story. If it has an obvious basis, and the person who made it says it has no story, it's almost like you don't really give a **** about your work.
Title: I'm going with DragonBlaze
Post by: aboutasoandthis on January 25, 2007, 04:05:18 AM: To me, art is like a book. It should give some kind of message to the person looking at it.

Originally Posted by ZeroKirbyX

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The story doesn't have to be something really deep and philosophical, it just has to have SOMETHING

Perfect quote.
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Post by: SaiKar on January 25, 2007, 05:19:57 AM: I draw occasionally not because i want to convey some deep meaning behind it, but because I have a concept for a character or an object in my head that I NEED a solid picture of. Like my sig. I didn't draw it to tell a stoy and there's no meaning behind it. It's just Sai in a sleeveless dress thing because I wanted to see what it would look like.

I always thought that searching for deep meaning everywhere is somewhat dry. Some people just create things because they want to. Does the fact that there is no story behind a painting make it a bad painting? Does it make the painter any less of an artist?
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Post by: ZeroKirbyX on January 25, 2007, 05:26:59 AM: Like I said, it doesn't have to be meaningful, but there is always a story behind a drawing. Like Sai said, you wanna draw draw a sleeveless Sai, the story behind it is that you wondered what Sai would look like sans-sleeves. The story is just what's behind the drawing. When you draw something and can't say what the story is, that's not very good on your side. I just think Oooog is bitter he didn't win but meh.
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Post by: Osmose on January 25, 2007, 05:44:16 AM: I just think you're trying to justify a very convoluted definition of art always involving a story. It's just a drawing of Sai - no story behind it.
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Post by: Darkfox on January 25, 2007, 05:46:38 AM: Yeah. I always have a story behind a drawing. Somtimes the stories make as much sense as the drawing... (ie FEED ME! (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/ShinDarkfox/Art/HeadThing2.png) ) but there is always a story. In this case... I was bored. XD

In any case there has to be a story or it just ain't creative. You don't just do, there is cause and effect. I'd say there would have to be some inspirational force. Mine is, I want to draw better and draw what comes to mind and put it down so I can see it later and improve with more story and style.

Either intentionally or unintentionally we do convey a meaning, a story. It just does not have to be a very complex and meaningful one. Emotions, like humorous pictures convey that they want to amuse us.
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Post by: Ben on January 25, 2007, 07:12:13 PM: A true artist can whip up a bs story for anything.
They wanted you to hype your work up.
It dosent have to have meaning, but if it has no meaning, you gotta have a better method of saying it. Try "I wanted the conneseur to have to imagine the story themself. Its not for me to dictate the message, its for you, the veiwer to discern it for yourself"
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Post by: oooog on January 25, 2007, 07:46:38 PM: I still don't understand why such a story is nessecary. I can understand how it can make the viewer understand the poem, book, piece of art in general, but why is it absolutely nessecary. When I said in my piece, "The character looking at the moon", that was not a story, that was just a descriptive way to tell the pose he is in. There is no explaination as to why he is there, or even why I made that piece. I got bored one day, is that the story?

Let's say, hypothetically, I were to draw this:

(I actually did draw this, scanned it, and then colored it in photoshop.)
This is Red XIII, from Final Fantasy VII. I drew and colored him in my art and technology class for a grade.

Of the two pictures, obviously the Red XIII looks better, but the story for my hyperoid picture is much better than saying "I needed it for a grade." Therefore, the hyperoid picture is more creative, and thus, is considered to be art more than the Red XIII picture.

You have said that I could not come up with a story for my work because I don't give a ****. That really isn't fair though. I spent a lot of time and out a lot of effort into my pictures when I make them. Saying that because there is no story behind it, that I don't give a ****, really isn't fair to me, and all who agree with me, because even though we may not have the greatest, if any, story behind it, we still put a lot of effort and time into our pieces. I worked on the picture for about 3 months to get it just right. My friend worked on his for about 2 weeks.

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Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
I just think Oooog is bitter he didn't win but meh.

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Originally posted by oooog
and he won 1st place (I'm proud of him, don't get me wrong.)

My friend is a good artist, has a hell of a lot more capability for drawing than I do, and he did deserve it. We do have friendly rivalry of course, but we don't get bitter or depressed when one of us don't win. My problem is that I didn't even get a fighting chance because I didn't have a story.

I'm sorry, but I still do not entirely understand where you are all coming from. Please continue.
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Post by: Moosetroop11 on January 25, 2007, 08:57:34 PM: My art has loads of meaning. I wish it didn't have to be so, but that's A-level art.

I'm using oil paints a lot at the moment. They kick ***.
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Post by: Darkfox on January 25, 2007, 09:02:54 PM: Hm... heck... I could just express "I like chocalate milk!" in my art. XD That'd be a story.
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Post by: Ben on January 25, 2007, 09:03:01 PM: Dude, you missed my point.

If it has no meaning, aside from asthetic, then you need to have a solid way of explaining it.

"The meaning of this piece is up for interpretation by the viewer, as is customary with fantasy and cross cultural representative pieces"

Seriously.

But it should have some sort of meaning....a message....emotion.

Its obviously a introspective message. The dude is looking at a moon. Explain it as such.

Otherwise, its just some stuff a kid drew to look cool. Sell YOURSELF.

Moose...I admire you for using oils. I hate them.

If for some reason you ever get a chance, try painting with tattoo ink on paper. Its neat. Like waters meets acrylic.
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Post by: Darkfox on January 25, 2007, 09:06:27 PM: Yeah. It doesn't have to be a complex or even a long story. Just there is always somthing put into a picture you draw yourself. In much of mine I actually find myself unintentionally expressing my own emotions through what I draw.

When I'm feeling glad I draw more cute things.

When I'm angry/sad I draw sad or twisted monstrosities.
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Post by: charaman on January 25, 2007, 09:21:18 PM: it just rings as inauthentic if theres no story.
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Post by: Spike21 on January 25, 2007, 11:49:09 PM: In an art contest meaning shouldn't mean anything. Just because a painting has a meaning doesn't mean it is painted more skillfuly.
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Post by: Osmose on January 26, 2007, 01:12:30 AM: Art requiring a story is a horrible definition. Wikipedia gives us a much better definition:

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Art is a product of human creativity. It has some perceived quality beyond utilitarianism, generally on the basis of aesthetic value or emotional impact.

Let's take Ooog's painting. It has no "story" behind it, but it is most definitely art because it is a product of his creativity. It's value comes from the aesthetics - the Samurai is drawn very well and is pleasing to the eyes.

Yes, art can have a story behind it, but trying to claim that it *needs* a story behind it is just stupid. You cannot apply such a strict requirement to something that is interpreted by the viewer.
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Post by: SaiKar on January 26, 2007, 01:30:22 AM: I think needing a story is sort of whack. What if Oooog wasn't around when someone was viewing the art he did? Because he's not there to tell the story the work loses some of its quality? That's ridiculous.

Interpretation of art is one thing. Looking at how an artist uses color and form and all that is good and solid. But some mysterious backstory seems detached and irrelivent. Good art should be able to stand alone.
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Post by: Smokey_locs2006 on January 26, 2007, 04:02:56 PM: Man...have you not seen one of my pics?

First thing people say is.

"coool"

then they go to ask.

"wtf does it mean?"

Not all art needs a story but if not a story than a meaning or purpose.

Like this pic I drew loooong ago.

It's about balance and though we're missing somethings we should still be thankful for what we have. Soo all about balance.
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Post by: Revolution911 on January 26, 2007, 05:35:33 PM: Art needs nothing. Art is what you make it. You make it the way you want to. If you dont want a story, dont have one. Its all about doing it your own style. I can recall maybe 1 or 2 of my drawings having actual morals and feelings behind them. Let alone a story. People act like art is some mysterious thing. They try to find some bullshit meaning in every piece. Thats why I love it when people try to guess the meaning behind my work and my response is "No you dumbass, it just looks cool."

No one can sit here and try and say that art needs to have a story. Sometimes you just wanna draw. Not to look cool. Not to impress anyone. Just to draw. Art is whatever the artist makes it. At the end of the day, a real artist shouldent care about impressing people. He shouldent care about what others think of his work due to a lack of "meaning." Just gotta let it flow, holmes. ::)

Hell, I'd be insulted is some ***hole "art judge" (which makes no sense, because he'd be judging the piece by HIS veiws on art) told me I need to have a story.

EDIT: Hoshit, perfect example. MY AVA. Just looks cool, holmes.