Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Red Giant on February 05, 2007, 01:35:26 AM
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Do you believe in God?
Why do you believe as you believe?
Are you religious, or is your belief more of an abstract philosophy that doesn't have a holy book, or neither?
How much merit do you grant your holy book, if you have one? How does your belief affect your life?
Is your belief strong, or are you nearer the fence?
Are you active in your belief or is it as much a part of your life as your personal preference in sock colour?
Have your beliefs changed through the course of your life- and if so, why and how? What moral concepts do your beliefs lead you to- if any?
Personally, I am an atheist, which is to say, I lack a belief in God. This is different from believing there is no God, if you understand what I mean. My life has been quite unspiritual really, I have pretty much been an atheist/agnostic for the entirety of it, and have simply slid further to the non-belief side of the issue as time has gone by. I don't really know what it's like to be a person of faith- or how that might affect one's life- so any new knowledge I can gain would be just peachy.
From what I've heard, atheists are not well liked in the US, heh, don't rip me to shreds. The religious climate is quite mellow in the UK. Sure, there are plenty who attend church, but I wouldn't say that many of them were strong believers, it's more of a cultural/social thing for most. Hell, I've seen english priests admit to being agnostic. PRIESTS.
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I've said this one a few dozen times before, so I'll just copy & paste it like I've done the last dozen times.
"I'm technically Catholic. Better add to that that I'm the worst Catholic ever. I believe in God, I believe that religion is used as a way to apply a set of moral standards and to help bring us above violent, lawless masses, but I also disbelieve in most of the teachings of the church. Corruption has a heavy hand in religion, and even if not today, then in the past, where none questioned the many "modifications" to the Bible.
I'm also not stupid. I believe in natural selection and evolution, and I don't believe that religion is grounds to create holy wars and conflicts. I feel like starting a new religion where the basics of religion are used, and where irrational thoughts are vetoed from the future iterations of my religion. God created us, and God let things go from there. Not much else to it, evolution can be counted as part of intelligent design, morality is a thing for all people, and faith keeps us from falling into a state of panic. And in the end, believing in God is insurance: If he doesn't exist, my ideal religion means you haven't wasted opportunities worshiping him, but if he's real, then on to heaven you go. I'm also set to either believe or disbelieve in God once enough solid proof is provided, but that hasn't happened, and I doubt it ever will happen.
In the end religion, whether worthwhile or not, was still made to give the faithless faith, the hopeless hope, and the immoral a set of decency. I'm in religion mostly for what it provides, rather than buying a stairway to heaven. Plus, it gives me peace of mind to know that something's helping out our pathetic race from falling apart, even if in ideas only."
At least my views can be agreed upon by most groups, even if only in parts.
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Holy ****! When'd you get back, RG?
Anyways, yes, I do believe in God.
Don't feel I have to explain myself.
Live with it :P
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Atheist.
Hey Red, what brings you around?
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Originally posted by Archem2
I've said this one a few dozen times before, so I'll just copy & paste it like I've done the last dozen times.
"I'm technically Catholic. Better add to that that I'm the worst Catholic ever. I believe in God, I believe that religion is used as a way to apply a set of moral standards and to help bring us above violent, lawless masses, but I also disbelieve in most of the teachings of the church. Corruption has a heavy hand in religion, and even if not today, then in the past, where none questioned the many "modifications" to the Bible.
I'm also not stupid. I believe in natural selection and evolution, and I don't believe that religion is grounds to create holy wars and conflicts. I feel like starting a new religion where the basics of religion are used, and where irrational thoughts are vetoed from the future iterations of my religion. God created us, and God let things go from there. Not much else to it, evolution can be counted as part of intelligent design, morality is a thing for all people, and faith keeps us from falling into a state of panic. And in the end, believing in God is insurance: If he doesn't exist, my ideal religion means you haven't wasted opportunities worshiping him, but if he's real, then on to heaven you go. I'm also set to either believe or disbelieve in God once enough solid proof is provided, but that hasn't happened, and I doubt it ever will happen.
In the end religion, whether worthwhile or not, was still made to give the faithless faith, the hopeless hope, and the immoral a set of decency. I'm in religion mostly for what it provides, rather than buying a stairway to heaven. Plus, it gives me peace of mind to know that something's helping out our pathetic race from falling apart, even if in ideas only."
At least my views can be agreed upon by most groups, even if only in parts.
Same exact thing here.
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It's my belief that science and religion are not fundamentally different - both explain how the world works, just using different methods. That doesn't mean I don't believe in some sort of higher power - the universe had to come from somewhere. But I agree with Archem - Catholicism is far too corrupt, even in this day and age, for my liking.
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G Unit? Isn't that what Pop yelled around about so many years ago. He was like "im G Unit!"
Isn't that some rap or pop band? <_<
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Originally posted by Apex
Atheist.
Hey Red, what brings you around?
When I heard that different moderatorth had different uthername colourth, I thimply *had* to thee it for mythelf.
Originally posted by Darkfox
G Unit? Isn't that what Pop yelled around about so many years ago. He was like "im G Unit!"
Isn't that some rap or pop band? <_<
For the good of your soul, never, ever find out.
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Well I'm sure if Pop is in it, I would imagine not. I bet his "Goblin" friend is into it too. XD Ah... memories.
Edit: I too have a dislike for most aethiests. For my personal reasons. They are usually the arrogant jerks on some forums that jump at every religious... even slightly related... topic to say "UR RELIGION SUCKS LOLOLOLOL GOD DUN EXIST" and they type a lot like that too. And I just think how stupid they sound having no logical merit to their messages. Just like they are doing it just to be a troll and start a flame. Sheesh...
I am honestly Christian, if anybody has a problem with that bite me! I have been for as long as I can remember. Maybe I'm somtimes not a good example of it but I try to be at least moral or humane about issues. I can't quite imagine everything being circumstantial. It makes much less sense than religion. Things just... boom and it is there. Life is not boom and it is there. Life is boom and it is GONE. XD But in any case I think it has served me a purpose. Another way of thinking than by some silly fate or "thats life". I'm open to possibilities if they aren't somthing too silly. And I am a very spontainious thinker. It holds linking to my belief because I am open but not too open.
I'll just end my rant there.
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I agree, many athiests I know are a lot more agressive with their methods than any others. My biggest problem though is how it's almost stylish to be an athiest right now.
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I say, your username is nigh invisible! The black on navy does give an ominous sense of authority though. I've already wet myself!
Edit: Uh, this is directed at darkfox, if there's any confusion. Damn you ZeroKirby for your fast response skill! DAMN YOU!
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That aside, I'm not against aethists. I'm against people who think it's cool to be against a monotheistic religion.
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Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
That aside, I'm not against aethists. I'm against people who think it's cool to be against a monotheistic religion.
Man, forget you squares. If you need me I'll be worshipping Zeus. I have a reputation to keep.
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Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
Bows to Archem and Darkfox Saying "I'm Not Worthy"
Yeah, I get that kind of response a lot when I rant. Check the rant thread for proof.
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Being atheist is "cool" and "hip'? That's pathetic, there are people who would damn themselves and deny their religion for a piece of spotlight? Whatever happened to being atheist because you don't beleive your the product of some super being?
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Man, forget you squares. If you need me I'll be worshipping Zeus. I have a reputation to keep.
Worshipping Zeus alone is a monotheistic religion. Join a Hera orgy too dammit. :p
And to Archem, I'm one of the folks who worshipped you in that thread. Remember? G'night everybody.
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Zeus: "I am Zeus! King of the g..."
Hera: "Shut the hell up Zeus and go get the groceries! Sheesh..."
Zeus: "Ok dear... ;_;"
*Ares laughs at Zeus*
Perfect example of a dysfunctional family.
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Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
...And to Archem, I'm one of the folks who worshipped you in that thread. Remember?
Of course I do. That "look at the rant thread" part was for people who didn't see already.
Worship me...
WORSHIP ME...
WORSHIP ME!!!
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Zeus: "I am Zeus! King of the g..."
Hera: "Shut the hell up Zeus and go get the groceries! Sheesh..."
Zeus: "Ok dear... ;_;"
*Ares laughs at Zeus*
Perfect example of a dysfunctional family.
You think THAT'S dysfunction?
Joseph: Jesus! Clean your room!
Jesus: You can't tell me what to do! YOU'RE NOT MY REAL FATHER!
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****, let me just get a video of a regular day at my house. It'll dysfunction the hell out of you.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Originally posted by Darkfox
Zeus: "I am Zeus! King of the g..."
Hera: "Shut the hell up Zeus and go get the groceries! Sheesh..."
Zeus: "Ok dear... ;_;"
*Ares laughs at Zeus*
Perfect example of a dysfunctional family.
You think THAT'S dysfunction?
Joseph: Jesus! Clean your room!
Jesus: You can't tell me what to do! YOU'RE NOT MY REAL FATHER![/B]
You took it down a notch there.
I mean, have you even read the Greek mythos? It's funny how they fight amongst themselves. And Hermes, he like rymes a lot. I bet they have punched him a few times for rymed remarks. I have no idea how ancient Greeks felt comfortable with gods that plunge their kin into oceans and the king of the gods Zeus has wife issues 24/7. XD
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Originally posted by Red Giant
I say, your username is nigh invisible! The black on navy does give an ominous sense of authority though. I've already wet myself!
Edit: Uh, this is directed at darkfox, if there's any confusion. Damn you ZeroKirby for your fast response skill! DAMN YOU!
Hey, you're the athiest, I can damn you! Muahahaha. Now get me a soda.
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Rip off his head and stuff it in a jumbo pickle jar. He hates that.
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And I thought we were talking about the rap group. I hate you.
I am agnostic. I'm lost.
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Simple enough Iīm a part of christianity, but since we up here in Sweden arnīt catholic itīs pretty much free, during the confirmation we saw Bruce the almighty and Matrix Revelutions...
Well nevertheless I just think of The God as a creator, we might as well just have been created in the same way todays scientist create clones and stuff today, I see nothing divine of god, he just created the world we live in.
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Originally posted by Prpl_Mage
Simple enough Iīm a part of christianity, but since we up here in Sweden arnīt catholic itīs pretty much free, during the confirmation we saw Bruce the almighty and Matrix Revelutions...
Well nevertheless I just think of The God as a creator, we might as well just have been created in the same way todays scientist create clones and stuff today, I see nothing divine of god, he just created the world we live in.
he made it, guides it, controls it, keeps it in order, saved the world, saves the people of the world, saved the SINNERS of the world, will in the end prophetically resurrect the believers and bring about revelation, and finally recreate the world, and so we will close the little book of our lives called earthly existance and live out our days for eternity in fellowship with God in new jerusalem.
I fail to see how anybody could do all that. :P
I'm christian, and yes, christianity is a very big part of my life. sure I won't meditate, sure I won't daily read a book of the old and new testament, but I realize God will always be there, jesus will always be there and we will all be protected by his holy light for all eternity. :) :Plight:
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Everyone is agnostic.
Some less than others.
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I have read a LOT of arguments on the matter. I've basically come to a few conclusions.
1. There is no God. How time and the universe started we may never know, but a super powered entity seems unlikely.
2. If there is a God, there is no Hell. Under the circumstances that he made us all, he also made aethiests, muslims, jews, Hitler etc. I think that, if we die and God exists, we all go to Heaven. Even Hitler, Osama, Saddam, that guy who threw rocks at you in the car park. All of them.
3. God isn't all forgiving, he's actually a giant arsehole and pretty much no matter what you do, you're going to Hell with everyone else.
Since I'm really hoping its not the latter, or even the second one.
Heaven scares me. You die, you go there. For eternity. That's a long time. That's a verrrry long time. If you get sick of that, you can choose to be reborn again AND HAVE YOUR MEMORY REMOVED. All your loved ones you may never encounter again. Who's to say the mother you love in this life will be the same one in the next? It's pretty twisted.
And what about all the other religions? What if God doesn't exist, but Mohammed does? Or Horus(/Ra)? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster (dumbest. Thing. Ever. But it does prove its point).
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Im an embodiement of atheism
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Originally posted by Razor
words words words
You haven't provided any points to support your conclusions.
And Mohammad is a prophet, not a God; so yes, he existed.
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Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Razor
words words words
You haven't provided any points to support your conclusions.
And Mohammad is a prophet, not a God; so yes, he existed.[/B]
I'm not going to go into the whole thing. They were mainly attacks on Christianity, a lot of which made sense.
This thread isn't about attacking Christians. It will be in about 5 pages, but not now.
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Personally I'm a Christian, I was raised that way, but ultimately it was my decision to stay a Christian when I became a teenager. I have my own reasons for staying one, suffice it to say that after everything I've seen, felt, and been through I'm 100% confident that God does exist.
I'm not your typical crazy religious fanatic though. I don't brow beat people and tell them they're going to hell, if your an atheist that's fine, I'll talk to you, tell you why I believe the way I do, but I won't try and force it on you. I also don't think it's wrong to smoke, drink, or swear, I just choose not to.
Also, I agree that the Catholic church is steeped too far into Corruption. It's my opinion that when a church has it's own government and politics that it leads to bad things. And I really hate the idea that a bunch of old men that have probably had sex with alter boys can sit around and vote on who the "holiest man on earth is" or decide who is a saint and just vote someone into Godly powers.
meh. That's my thoughs, and I'm sticking to them.
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I'm not really anything. I believe it's nice to believe in something, because then you wonder why you're even here, which is very annoying. I do think it's silly that all these wars and debates are existing solely because of religion. If there is a god, or perhaps gods, then I bet they're really pissed at us.
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Originally posted by Razor
I have read a LOT of arguments on the matter. I've basically come to a few conclusions.
1. There is no God. How time and the universe started we may never know, but a super powered entity seems unlikely.
2. If there is a God, there is no Hell. Under the circumstances that he made us all, he also made aethiests, muslims, jews, Hitler etc. I think that, if we die and God exists, we all go to Heaven. Even Hitler, Osama, Saddam, that guy who threw rocks at you in the car park. All of them.
3. God isn't all forgiving, he's actually a giant arsehole and pretty much no matter what you do, you're going to Hell with everyone else.
Since I'm really hoping its not the latter, or even the second one.
Heaven scares me. You die, you go there. For eternity. That's a long time. That's a verrrry long time. If you get sick of that, you can choose to be reborn again AND HAVE YOUR MEMORY REMOVED. All your loved ones you may never encounter again. Who's to say the mother you love in this life will be the same one in the next? It's pretty twisted.
And what about all the other religions? What if God doesn't exist, but Mohammed does? Or Horus(/Ra)? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster (dumbest. Thing. Ever. But it does prove its point).
You contradict yourself in 2 and 3. In 2, you state there is no hell, you in 3, you say we're all going to the hell you just stated doesn't exist.
Way to pull a Marilyn Manson.
And in case anyone cares. I'm a christian. Although I hate denominations. As far as I'm concerned, "christian" does not have to mean catholic, baptist or whatever. Christian just means you believe Jesus was the son of God. As its been stated before, many denominations are too corrupt nowadays.
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I'm agnostic. Quote:
The Bible didn't arrive by fax from heaven.
If I believe in God, and don't do harm to others, then I'm doing as He intended, right? Better than shunning and demoralizing those who don't share my beliefs...
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Hey Raze, read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins? You'd probably appreciate it. It was the last thing I read (That wasn't a ditzy teen horror. Like zomg were teenagers and zomg scary stuff is happening when all we want to do is drugs and sex. Seriously maybe if your characters weren't such hedonistic egotists I would be less emotionally invested the killer, teen horror genre!)
EDIT: And your bit about ressurection was splendid. I've argued with a few believers for the position that- were I ressurected with my memory erased- it wouldn't really be "me". Totall Recall has a nice scene to show this kind of thinking.
EDIT2: GIT YO *** TO MARS
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Agnostic (sp?)
I think something had to make us, but now he's dead or something.
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Originally posted by ImmortalDreamer
You contradict yourself in 2 and 3. In 2, you state there is no hell, you in 3, you say we're all going to the hell you just stated doesn't exist.
They're my 3 possibilities. Neither of them co-exist in the same universe sort of thing.
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Agnostic (sp?)
I think something had to make us, but now he's dead or something.
you can't kill divinity. you can kill people, you can kill plants, you can kill animals, you can kill PLANETS (that one's pretty easy *leans back and stares at imaginary factory spewing smoke everywhere*) you can kill anything, but you can't kill the divine.
sure, jesus died, but because he wanted to to save us from our sin. :)
this goes to everyone here.
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My friend Friedrich Nietzsche disagrees entirely.
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I think there is a god, but all religons based on him are bullshit.
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I'm a thelemite/hindu, (by choice, I was raised Catholic)
God is in and is everything.
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I'm kinda annoyed at the people who are saying "I hate the people who say they're atheist because it's cool". If you weren't an atheist, you wouldn't say you were, you wouldn't denounce your own religion. If you are an atheist, the why not say you are?
I think what you're seeing is an increase in atheists as people generally become less ignorant. And PLEASE note that I'm not calling christians ignorant, I';m just saying that now, people can make up their own minds.
I myself used to believe in only two things: that infinity can't exist, and that energy can't be created from nothing. About a year ago I realised that if those two things were true, the universe could not exist. Now I'm lost, but I could never bring myself to believe in a religion.
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
I'm kinda annoyed at the people who are saying "I hate the people who say they're atheist because it's cool". If you weren't an atheist, you wouldn't say you were, you wouldn't denounce your own religion. If you are an atheist, the why not say you are?
Indeed. Atheists have plenty of reason to pretend to be religious- to fit in with their family or social circles- and would of course, in their minds, have nothing to lose (Bar their integrity). On the other hand, I doubt a religious person would feign atheism at the cost of their soul.
While atheism may well be the "in" thing, and may indeed be affecting people's level of display/confidence regarding their atheism, in their minds, I don't think much will have changed.
EDIT: Indeed, for the longest time, atheism has been a taboo (And still is in many places) but with the general opinion shifting towards acceptance, one can expect the number of (admitted) atheists to rise.
Unfortunately, for many youths, it is the hardest closet of all to come out of. It's hard to tell your parents that your beliefs condemn you to hell, by their beliefs. If I thought my children (Had I any) were going to be tortured for all eternity, I would do anything I could to prevent it from happening, and I imagine that it would be an extremely saddening experience to believe that it would.
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I hate seeing an atheist goth kid with an article of clothing that says 666. How hypocritical can you get.
Anyway, people arent getting less ignorant. Just the entire internet population has been atheist since Bill Gates popped out of his mommies vagina.
And you dont need to confine yourself to a religon to believe in god. But I do agree with you on alot of things.
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
About a year ago I realised that if those two things were true, the universe could not exist. Now I'm lost, but I could never bring myself to believe in a religion.
I therefore believe the universe, the Maya in Hindu terminology, is no more than an illusion flowing forth from the all encompassing truth that is Brahman. Through the illusion of the Maya we are taught of the true Reality.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Meiscool
Agnostic (sp?)
I think something had to make us, but now he's dead or something.
you can't kill divinity. you can kill people, you can kill plants, you can kill animals, you can kill PLANETS (that one's pretty easy *leans back and stares at imaginary factory spewing smoke everywhere*) you can kill anything, but you can't kill the divine.
sure, jesus died, but because he wanted to to save us from our sin. :)
this goes to everyone here.[/B]
I wanna insult you real bad.
Instead, I'll just ask you to prove that the divine can't be killed.
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I agree with meiscool here.
Theres something about Christian ideology that makes people talk like authorities when quoting their falsely axiomatic dogmas.
Don't say things with such a tone of finality, it makes you look naive.
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Originally posted by Revolution911
I hate seeing an atheist goth kid with an article of clothing that says 666. How hypocritical can you get.
Hah, indeed. On that subject, according to some new translation work, 616 is the actual number of the beast, 666 being an old translation error.
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I am a strong Christian and it effects everything I do.
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I'm a strict Thelemite, but I don't state my beliefs as unquestionable fact.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Originally posted by Revolution911
I hate seeing an atheist goth kid with an article of clothing that says 666. How hypocritical can you get.
Hah, indeed. On that subject, according to some new translation work, 616 is the actual number of the beast, 666 being an old translation error.[/B]
Turns out, disappointingly enough, they were wrong. It is 666.
I wanted all those rock bands to look like idiots. :| Oh well, can't win them all.
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Meiscool
Agnostic (sp?)
I think something had to make us, but now he's dead or something.
you can't kill divinity. you can kill people, you can kill plants, you can kill animals, you can kill PLANETS (that one's pretty easy *leans back and stares at imaginary factory spewing smoke everywhere*) you can kill anything, but you can't kill the divine.
sure, jesus died, but because he wanted to to save us from our sin. :)
this goes to everyone here.[/B]
I wanna insult you real bad.
Instead, I'll just ask you to prove that the divine can't be killed.[/B]
Ooooh oooh oooooooooooooHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I wanna hear the insult! PM it to me! XD
and as for proof, you can't really fairly ask for proof of something like that. there's only two Godly things in the world, and neither have been recordedly killed. (as in, dead for real, not resurrected -_-)
that's like asking a non christian how can you prove God doesn't exist. or saying to a nonchristian scientist 'prove that it wasn't god who made the universe' and so on. :) I mean no offense to anyone, I'm just trying to state my opinion.
please no one hold any hard feelings for anything I say here okee? (as you can tell, the past two days I have been very at peace with myself (Z) )
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I will be at peace with myself as soon as my tests are done.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
that's like asking a non christian how can you prove God doesn't exist. or saying to a nonchristian scientist 'prove that it wasn't god who made the universe' and so on. :) I mean no offense to anyone, I'm just trying to state my opinion.
Indeed, but the burden of proof lies always with the person making the claim. If I said to you that there were invisible, undetectable fairies in my room, would it be your responsibility to prove me wrong? Of course not, it would be mine to prove it to you. In reality, you could never prove me wrong.
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I was raised Catholic (Damn guilt is still with me), but after the Church disowned my brother for being gay, as well as basically the rest of my family figuring that our actions, whether we went to church or not, probably qualified us for hell (Quite strict requirements to get into heaven, if you ask me), we stopped going and don't really bother with religion.
It's not that I don't like the idea of God - he seems to be a benevolent type of guy, what with creation and all - but it's the people that believe in him and talk about his existence and actions as if there was no way you could not believe it that annoy me.
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Mmhmm. I'm mystified by people who are completely certain that their god exists. Mystified, and a little envious that they have this protection in their minds. When I die, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be thinking "This is the end. ****."
I've decided that being religious is along the same lines as a mother's love for her child- she can never, ever explain that love to anyone, that bond she feels. Mothers say that you don't know true fear until you have children and one is in danger. I don't think a religious person could ever justify their beliefs, which is why we have to learn to be respectful and abide by them, rather than understand them.
I guess that's why christians seem to have this pompous attitude. If you really believed that someone was going to spend eternity in hell, if you were absolutely certain of it, wouldn't you try and save them? I would.
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I hate people that ask me to prove atheism as a viable idea....
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Meh, I'm a believer, not a religious guy. There's a huge difference between religion and filosophy, and I believe because of filosophy, no cathecism teacher or no priest made me believe. If I just heard the stuff those guys have to say, I'd remain an atheist.
I'm not gonna explain my points... because I'm too lazy xD
Besides no one has real proof to what they say.
You can't go on the street screaming "lol there's no God" or "lol there's a God", because no one ahs real proof or statements. In the end it's all a matter of what you believe in.
And WHAT you do with your belief is more important than the belief itself, I say.
For example, I'm a christian, but most of my friends are atheists.
I'm not gonna start running around with a Bible and go "belieeeeeeeeve you sinful demon!" because that would be a lack of respect towards the other's belief.
Besides, the dictators of Argentina during the 70's are catholics, were supported by the most powerful sectors of the Church, and go to church every sunday.
To me, wether they believe or not, those guys are burning. And my friends who are atheists surely are going to Heaven. That's all.
That's why I find the whole "there's God- there's no God" discussion as a pointless thing.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Originally posted by Revolution911
I hate seeing an atheist goth kid with an article of clothing that says 666. How hypocritical can you get.
Hah, indeed. On that subject, according to some new translation work, 616 is the actual number of the beast, 666 being an old translation error.[/B]
Well that ruins that movie "23" I guess. Damn, it looked good too.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
the burden of proof lies always with the person making the claim.
Originally posted by Dominicy
you can't kill divinity.
lol
also, God I've missed you, Red. (in b4 DROR KOMIX PLZ)
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Originally posted by Revolution911
Well that ruins that movie "23" I guess. Damn, it looked good too.
You know what else? Pluto being dropped from planet status ruins astrology.
Originally posted by Razor
also, God I've missed you, Red. (in b4 DROR KOMIX PLZ)
Australian is such a strange language. Heh. Come here, you furball *Noogies furry head with knuckle*
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When the pimps in the crib ma'
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
When the pigs try to get at you
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
DROP IT LIKE ITS PLUTO
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Hahahaha... Nice.
Also, is there anyone here who doesn't believe in evolution? Because that would kinda rock.
EDIT: Don't forget to include your reasons for not believing too. Can't have a good disscussion without those.
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Well I believe god created that something created us first, along with out planet. Then evolution finished it off.
...Im not one to make a post longer than 3 lines.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Hahahaha... Nice.
Also, is there anyone here who doesn't believe in evolution? Because that would kinda rock.
EDIT: Don't forget to include your reasons for not believing too. Can't have a good disscussion without those.
I don't believe in evolution.
my reason; there has been no proof, or evidence whatsoever that stuff can mutate into other stuff. as my christian school said, 'hey, I've got proof of evolution, this creature's cells are altering! oh wait, that's cancer.' :D
evolution doesn't make sense, its just something humanity pulled out its rear.
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I believe in evolution. It just makes more sense to me than the religious approach, which seems similar to saying "A wizard did it."
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I don't believe in evolution because... ask and i shall tell.
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Wow. I don't feel I can say anything without resulting in insulting Dominacy right now. Is "ignorance" an insult?
Edit: In relation to Red's post below, yes, cancer is cells mutating into something else. Over time.
Which is what evolution is.
Basically that Christian School said "I've got proof of evolution, it's evolution!"
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Originally posted by Spike21
I don't believe in evolution because... ask and i shall tell.
Well, I did, in the original post.
Originally posted by Dominicy
my reason; there has been no proof, or evidence whatsoever that stuff can mutate into other stuff. as my christian school said, 'hey, I've got proof of evolution, this creature's cells are altering! oh wait, that's cancer.' :D
But cancer IS "stuff mutating into other stuff".
Originally posted by FFL2and3rocks
I believe in evolution. It just makes more sense to me than the religious approach, which seems similar to saying "A wizard did it."
Yes, but in episode AG4...
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... I meant more pasifacaly (sp?) but ok... were to start
Some animal that couldn't possibly have evolved,
Whales are supposedly evolved from cows or something. Their blow hole is sepperate from there mouth were in cows and almost all other creatures the nose(or whatever) is connected to the mouth.
The Bombader Beatle is a little beatle that shoots hot liquid out from its abdomin. It has two chambers each with a diffrent cemical when combined they expode. How could it evolve with out exploding?
The Giraf has a little sponge in its head so when it leans down to get a drink it absorbs the blood going into the brain so it's head won't explode. It won't say "My head keeps exploding i need to evolve to make my head stop exploding."
... That will be all for now i am extremely lazy and don't feel like typing any more.
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Words
Bunches of words.
More words.
Man this blows.
Edit: Evolution... AH YES. A bunch of african apes bleached themselves and came together to form what is now England.
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I rather agree with Rev...
Because there is indeed some proof of evolution.
For example, the sea dinosaurs are proof of it. There have existed sharks since millions of years, and they have changed their shape from years to years.
Besides (supprting what Spike said), whales, although they were no cows, used to walk over the land. The proof remains in the bones of their fins (is it well spelt?). They are shaped as legs, and there are remains of bones on land that actually show that whales used to walk on the land.
There are more proofs of evolution everyday, it's not "evil" to accept it.
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first of all how do you know the earth is millions upon millions of years old
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Because they asked a guy and the guy said so. And then they told some other guy and so on and so forth.
Actually the world was created by a mighty Chuck Norris roundhouse kick!
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Yay people not learning from Biology courses! There is lots of evidence of evolution in cell and many other things. Not once have I heard the proof of evolution is evolution.
On God, I still haven't decided.
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I took biology. Passed it. Couldn't say I learned anything new but it was fun to some extent. I got to cut open a heart.
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Originally posted by Spike21
Some animal that couldn't possibly have evolved,
Whales are supposedly evolved from cows or something. Their blow hole is sepperate from there mouth were in cows and almost all other creatures the nose(or whatever) is connected to the mouth.
The Bombader Beatle is a little beatle that shoots hot liquid out from its abdomin. It has two chambers each with a diffrent cemical when combined they expode. How could it evolve with out exploding?
The Giraf has a little sponge in its head so when it leans down to get a drink it absorbs the blood going into the brain so it's head won't explode. It won't say "My head keeps exploding i need to evolve to make my head stop exploding."
The first is quite simple to expound. A nostril or blowhole, when used on a seadwelling mammal, would be more efficient the higher up it were, because one could reach the surface quicker. Therefore, the relocation from front of head to top would be beneficial among whales.
The bombadier beetle one is a little harder to explain, but there is a talkorigins page on it if you feel like taking a look: (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/bombardier.html)
And on girraffes, well, you have to understand that evolution is gradual. A girraffe with a slightly long neck wont have its head exploding, but it may have some minor blood problems every now and then. This would not affect it's survival MAJORLY, but it would be enough to make it beneficial to have a small sponge, nothing big, but enough to get by. Through more small steps, the sponge would get bigger and bigger and the neck longer and longer.
first of all how do you know the earth is millions upon millions of years old
Radiometric dating
Edit: Evolution... AH YES. A bunch of african apes bleached themselves and came together to form what is now England.
Not quite. Dark skin pigment is beneficial to have in enviroments with more sun, because it protects from UV light and skin cancer, subsequently. As our ancestors migrated to countries with less sun, their lighter-skinned children were found to be less hindered because of the lack of significant UV light. In fact, they were at an advantage, because they were able to take in more vitamin(I forget the letter, but it's some vitamin that comes from sunlight) without dying off.
The continent with the highest rate of skin cancer today is Australia. This is because australia has a high population of white people with a high exposure of sun.
Words
Bunches of words.
More words.
Man this blows.
Well what can you expect from a forum, really?
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Well what can you expect from a forum, really?
Less boring n00bs who have nothing better to do than argue a lot about religion. A kind of topic where people without a life bash each other with words and words. Then yap on and on and never get anywhere and then a bunch of people pop up and are like "WTF WHAT U TALKIN BOUT!?" and then they are like "LOLRELIGION" and the others are like "LOLEVOLUTION" and then there are more words but they are unintelligable except having the construct of a meaningful sentence. Then there are more words and then everybody gets bored... and... some guy is like "lol i liek cheese" and then it goes on from there.
The world is such a goofy place. :]] Rejoice!
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Words
Bunches of words.
More words.
Man this blows.
Edit: Evolution... AH YES. A bunch of african apes bleached themselves and came together to form what is now England.
Shouldn't you be saying that in every single thread?
And about the edit, it's still arguable whether or not humans evolved from apes, or if they evolved from the third party that evolved into both. I haven't heard much on that theory lately though.
Besides, Germany found England originally. Lern2history.
You know, if you don't want to look at this thread, don't.
There are people who actually like the topic, the world doesn't share your opinion on the matter. :|
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Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by Darkfox
Words
Bunches of words.
More words.
Man this blows.
Edit: Evolution... AH YES. A bunch of african apes bleached themselves and came together to form what is now England.
Somthing about Toastios and history.[/B]
Man I hate those. And... what is history? A miserable pile of secrets!
It isn't that I hate the topic but it is one of those topics it is impossible to take seriously.
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It is one of those topics that you seem to find impossible to take seriously.
Back on topic, please.
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The topic as it seems to be one of those to bash religion and debate how man came to be. Am I correct?
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Less boring n00bs who have nothing better to do than argue a lot about religion. A kind of topic where people without a life bash each other with words and words. Then yap on and on and never get anywhere and then a bunch of people pop up and are like "WTF WHAT U TALKIN BOUT!?" and then they are like "LOLRELIGION" and the others are like "LOLEVOLUTION" and then there are more words but they are unintelligable except having the construct of a meaningful sentence. Then there are more words and then everybody gets bored... and... some guy is like "lol i liek cheese" and then it goes on from there.
The world is such a goofy place. :]] Rejoice!
Well I'm sorry you see it that way, but I don't think religion should be a taboo subject. Besides, anyone who dislikes the subject matter or thinks that it's boring is free to not read it.
And about the edit, it's still arguable whether or not humans evolved from apes, or if they evolved from the third party that evolved into both. I haven't heard much on that theory lately though.
Evolution is exceedingly difficult to track, mostly. Vast quantities of creatures will never be discovered due to the low chance of fossilization. That thought makes me kinda sad, you know?
EDIT:
Originally posted by Darkfox
The topic as it seems to be one of those to bash religion and debate how man came to be. Am I correct?
Oh please. There has been much more bashing of evolution; apparantely "man pulled it out of his ***". Not to mention you saying that everyone involved "has no life".
So far I think everyone has been more civil than they could be, perhaps with the exception of you.
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Well I just saw some people taking it a bit personal tis all. It's just I seen these kind of topics other places go pretty badly (G4 forums) and ever since then I've been a bit shakey about it. I don't fear discussing beliefs, I just fear the whole super-Christian/super-aethiest thing.
Sorry if I came off like a nutcase.
But if you want my personal and honest belief on evolution I do believe it in some forms such as physical adaptation to an environmental change or at a small cellular level. Not sure if that can exactly be called evolution but anything more radical has never actually been observed. Other than mutations which is more like cancers and aftereffects of pollution. Like in amphibians.
Edit: Also I noticed sombody mentioned cloning. I want to get something straight there. When you "clone" sombody you basically take the genetic traits of that person and put them into a developing human. The result is a different person but may look like the one being cloned. And even then there will be differentiation because human development is not balanced and cannot realisticly be balanced by man alone. Because it is human to error. And an errored human to make a perfect human seems a funny concept. Well... ok... not really "make" is a correct term as it suggests that they made from nothing the embryo.
Basically what makes a person up doesn't make the person. If I cloned you what are the possibilities that it would develop to be like you?
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I believe in the idea of creationism in terms of a creature created by God, but I also believe in evolution. I personally prefer to take the story of Eden as a metaphor, just as I take the 7 days. I love how many Catholics will claim that the seven days is a metaphor, but the Eden is not. Adam and Eve are merely that which was created first.
If I can pull out the clock maker relation again: God is the clock maker, he created all of it, but left it up to us to run on our own. However, when something gets REALLY messed up and requires fixin, he intervenes to fix it, the lets it go solo again; i.e. Jesus.
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I like that analogy actually. But unlike a clock we have no defined way to run or predetermined path as we make our own paths.
Which brings me to what I find funny is people who "leave it in the hands of fate" or some "universal balance" but if they do nothing, nothing happens then say it was "fate" that nothing happened. Or if a car explodes it was "fate" even though they could have stopped the guy who threw the bomb since he was standing right there.
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Well I just saw some people taking it a bit personal tis all. It's just I seen these kind of topics other places go pretty badly (G4 forums) and ever since then I've been a bit shakey about it. I don't fear discussing beliefs, I just fear the whole super-Christian/super-aethiest thing.
Sorry if I came off like a nutcase.
I get where you're coming from totally.
On the cloning thing, well, it's difficult to say. It's very VERY arguable how much of one's personality is defined by genetics and how much by enviroment.
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Originally posted by Spike21
first of all how do you know the earth is millions upon millions of years old
you can prove the world isn't millions upon millions of years old because the sun would have vaporized the water of earth in the beginning during creation, this proven by the fact that the sun shrinks two feet every hour. (or was it day?)
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Dominicy you make me laugh.
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Yes, I believe in myself. :]]
Also,
Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Spike21
first of all how do you know the earth is millions upon millions of years old
you can prove the world isn't millions upon millions of years old because the sun would have vaporized the water of earth in the beginning during creation, this proven by the fact that the sun shrinks two feet every hour. (or was it day?)[/B]
Ya know, I wanted to think of something sarcastic to respond to that with, but Im too blown away by the sheer idiocy of that comment.
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Well humans unlike animals such as coyotes and deer do not run much on instintive. Some perhaps but more so humans run on some drive to learn and to commune. Humans are a being... or more like THE being who adapt much more culturally than physically. As I have learned in Anthropology class race is not a proper application to humanity so everyone black, white, red and... blue... are all defined as the same but of different adaptations more obviously culturally. Skin color is merely that people's body adaptations to their environment.
Thats logical. But humans are not very logical beings. You corner a cat and it scratches you, you corner a human and he goes "NOT THE FACE! NOT THE FACE!"
Simply put instincts are likely hereditary. A person learns to be who they are by outside factors and choices they make. Genetics define how they look and what they are.
That is at least my viewpoint.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
you can prove the world isn't millions upon millions of years old because the sun would have vaporized the water of earth in the beginning during creation, this proven by the fact that the sun shrinks two feet every hour. (or was it day?)
Aww, how cute. I miss being 13 and naive.
In retrospect, I really don't.
Darkfox
You corner a cat and it scratches you, you corner a human and he goes "NOT THE FACE! NOT THE FACE!"
Well we know where it hurts and where it's most vital. Face (head, really)/genitals = painful, vital. Arms, legs, not as painful. Still useful.
And we're smarter than animals (usually). We can at least try to reason.
Unless you're cornered by a redneck or something.
Edit: Actually I'm not sure what point I was trying to go for with that last half. I really have no idea.
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Evolution is a fact. It cannot be denied (not successfully, at least).
You want some examples?
1) The dolphin. Dolphins look like sharks, in the sense that they have a very streamlined shape that is perfectly suited for aquatic life. But here's the kicker - Dolphins are mammals, while sharks are fish. Two totally different species that look the same; it's called convergent evolution, and there's a ton of examples of it in the natural environment.
2) The appendix in humans. In animals, the appendix is used to digest plant matter, like bark or tough roots - but humans don't eat that stuff (or if they do, they can't digest it). So what's the point of having it? This, too, has a term - vestigial structures.
3) On the same topic as ^, about 95% of our DNA has no real function other than to take up space. If we were created a short time ago (figuratively speaking), we wouldn't have all of that junk DNA - 6 or 7000 years isn't enough to do that.
Of course, these kind of debates are pretty pointless, but meh. I, for one, believe that life was created by something, whether it be a God or other entity like that, or simply other life; but not recently, that's for sure.
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Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by Dominicy
you can prove the world isn't millions upon millions of years old because the sun would have vaporized the water of earth in the beginning during creation, this proven by the fact that the sun shrinks two feet every hour. (or was it day?)
Aww, how cute. I miss being 13 and naive.
In retrospect, I really don't.
Darkfox
You corner a cat and it scratches you, you corner a human and he goes "NOT THE FACE! NOT THE FACE!"
Well we know where it hurts and where it's most vital. Face (head, really)/genitals = painful, vital. Arms, legs, not as painful. Still useful.
And we're smarter than animals (usually). We can at least try to reason.
Unless you're cornered by a redneck or something.
Edit: Actually I'm not sure what point I was trying to go for with that last half. I really have no idea.[/B]
Please don't bash or patronize people for their age and beliefs. Lets keep it civil and intelligible from now on. Remember we do set examples.
Ah, reasoning. Humans have their words afterall, and words can be mightier than the sword. Unless that sword is the size of a bus.
As for rednecks... you just give them a bottle of moonshine and all will be okey dokey until they become intoxicated. But by that time you are on a head start over the hill. Rrrright?
1) The dolphin. Dolphins look like sharks, in the sense that they have a very streamlined shape that is perfectly suited for aquatic life. But here's the kicker - Dolphins are mammals, while sharks are fish. Two totally different species that look the same; it's called convergent evolution, and there's a ton of examples of it in the natural environment.
They don't look so much alike. They are an aquatic mammal as is whales. True. But how is it a kicker? All you have said is that they have a similar streamline appearance. That is as like comparing a fat cat to a raccoon.
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If someone believes in God or Ra or whatever, it's fine by me.
But thinking that the oceans would be completely dried up by now is nothing short of unawareness. Basic science. Nothing to do with religion or beliefs. Really.
I can't be stuffed explaining how the whole cycle works, unless I really have to.
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I'm fully aware of the water cycle but there is little need to patronize sombody about it.
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Okay, just so we don't keep arguing on his "points," I'm taking a poll so we can just get a general concensus. All those who think Dominicy is an idiot, say "Aye."
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Aye
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Oh give it a rest, your looking even more immature in dragging it out. -_-
His "point" may be invalid, I even think so, but it is no reason to start flameing and bashing him. All it shows is that we are all a bunch of children.
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But it's people such as him that give us Catholics a bad rep. Because he tries to argue points which make no sense at all and seems to be steadfast to ideas which aren't even advocated by the church, it seems as if we are all like that.
And c'mon DF, y'know you wanted to say aye XD
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Actually, I didn't read any of it. I thought Aye would be funny:p
Now that I have read it, I can still say that he's not to smart. But, Razor already provided proof enough to counter him, so yeah, you're right; there's no need to drag this out.
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Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
Okay, just so we don't keep arguing on his "points," I'm taking a poll so we can just get a general concensus. All those who think Dominicy is an idiot, say "Aye."
(woot my idiocy took over another board, and this time, I guess I'll just play along XD)
Aye. :3
and also, I'm simply saying that if the earth was millions of years old, it wouldn't be existant because the sun's heat would've killed it completely because the sun is shrinking, and if the sun was millions of years old, it would've killed the earth. that or, if the earth was there before the sun, and in such a case, that can't even happen. my point?
if the sun was millions of years old, then the earth wouldn't exist, and so the theory emerges that creation was somewhere around 5000 BC. I personally support that because in reality it makes sense, so please don't continue flaming me as you usually do you crazy troll Zero.
thankyou.
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Wow, I totally didn't anticipate that this religious debate would get so heated
liek wow.
Stop being a hijacking dumpface and talk about God.
"God god god God Jesus God."
- more post content than zerokirbyx
also quit being so christing predictible
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Can someone please bonk Dominicy for not having evolved from apes in the rate like the rest of the world did? I mean come on, his family must be about a 5000 years too late with schedule of evolution.
Joke aside.
"You can't disprove God."
You can't disprove evolution.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
you can prove the world isn't millions upon millions of years old because the sun would have vaporized the water of earth in the beginning during creation, this proven by the fact that the sun shrinks two feet every hour. (or was it day?)
Evaporated water becomes clouds, it doesn't just, you know, dissappear.
I'm not sure where you were going with the shrinking sun bit (It sounds like a different point entirely... maybe you meant ocean) but just to clarify, the sun is actually getting bigger.
Besides, do you know how big that biznatch is? It makes up 99.9% of the entire solar system's mass. 2 feet (especially spread evenly) is not a big deal.
EDIT: hey mrmister, weren't you a christian?
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I'm a troll, oh dear.
Carbon dating is determined by the breakdown of carbon, and testing of the rocks farthest from fault lines shows the Earth to be roughly 4.6 billion years old. The sin is actually gaining diameter as time goes by, and technically you are correct, as what you say would happen WILL happen, but not for 4-5 billion more years. That's when the sun will get larger enough and hot enough to become a Red Giant. After about 250 million more years, it will cause what little helium is left to explode in a really cool Die Hard blast.
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Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
The sin is actually gaining diameter as time goes by,
lolsin
NEwaiz, Red Giants are actually cooler, because the heat is all spread out and stuff, but yeah. From an earth standpoint (Inside the sun), that'd be little consolation really.
No pagans so far. Come on guys, there's one in every crowd
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SCIENCE'D
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
The sin is actually gaining diameter as time goes by,
lolsin
NEwaiz, Red Giants are actually cooler[/B]
Totally unbiased, right?
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Originally posted by Red Giant
EDIT: hey mrmister, weren't you a christian?
I am.
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1. In case anyone feels like it again, don't call Dominancy an idiot. Just prove him wrong - it's much more satisfying.
2. The sun loses an incredibly small amount of it's mass each year. 0.00000000000001 percent, actually. Such an amount is negligible.
3. Even if we take your assumption into consideration, Dominancy, 2 feet per day is rougly 720 feet per year. Let's do about three million years. That's 2160 million feet of the sun gone, which equals about 415,000 miles. The sun is 91,250,000 miles from the earth. Over three million years it changes it from 91 million to 90 million. That's not that big of a change, although over time that could seriously affect the Earth's ecosystem if the sun did in fact lose 2 feet per day, it would hardly have the effect you describe. Good thing it doesn't.
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Originally posted by Osmose
1. In case anyone feels like it again, don't call Dominancy an idiot. Just prove him wrong - it's much more satisfying.
I would but you and Red Giant used up all his material. :(
Oh wait.
Originally posted by Dominicy
I'm simply saying that if the earth was millions of years old, it wouldn't be existant because the sun's heat would've killed it completely because the sun is shrinking, and if the sun was millions of years old, it would've killed the earth. that or, if the earth was there before the sun, and in such a case, that can't even happen.
The Earth itself is not a living thing, thusly it couldn't be killed. If you're talking about the life living on Earth, well, we've been orbiting this sun for a long time now, perpetually at the same distance. Now, if we can survive the heat now, so could everything before us.
Also note that if the sun were shrinking, it would have to shrink a lot more than a few feet per day to do anything of notice.
Now let's change to an analogy. Meteors, comets, asteroids; they all exist, constantly flying through the universe, some times crashing into things. My point is, they've existed pretty well so far, even without our sun. Though I'm not an astrophysist, I think earth has been orbiting that hot ball of fire since the original cloud of cosmic gas (mainly hydrogen) was disrupted, gained mass and then due to its own pressure became so incredibly heated it burst into flames.
I'm not sure if it's known for sure whether or not we drifted into its (the sun) orbit sometime after that or at the beginning.
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alright, how about how there's all these spots covered with land filled with fossils? there's no meteors found inside the earth in these spots practically, so wouldn't that mean that it formed amazingly fast? as in, over a few months? not millions of years. if it took the fossils to be buried then the earth would be filled with meteors in all of these places, and to my knowledge, its not filled with meteors.
this shows that the earth's millions of years didn't come from that, nore did evolution cause they were crushed under 40 days of worldwide flood water.
and on a side not I was using 'kill' as an expression. perhaps we should all start flaming you for not agreeing with what I said just as you gues are flaming me? :hi:
as I continue, this pretty much just became a topic to point and laugh at me, calling me an idiot because I have a differing opinion than you. :dry:
there you go, there's my ten cents on the matter. that's right, ten cents, lol :P
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Originally posted by Dominicy
this shows that the earth's millions of years didn't come from that, nore did evolution cause they were crushed under 40 days of worldwide flood water.
Where did the water come from? LoL. A second ago you were telling us that evaporated water leaves the atmosphere steadily, but now water can APPEAR inside the atmosphere?
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Are you aware that their should not be tons of meteors in those holes?
A meteorite, a piece of rock that lands on earth from space, is actually incredibly tiny. They really do mostly burn up entering earth's atmosphere, by the time they hit the ground they are infact tiny, they are going so fast however due to Earth's gravitational pull that even a tiny rock creates enormous craters. The theory with Dino's being killed by them is that one was so large that it didn't become pebble sized when it went through the atmosphere, and therefore hit the earth with crippling force, causing enormous side effects such as throwing so much dirt and dust into the air that it ruined our ecosystem, thus plunging us into a state of change that killed off dinosaurs and etc.
I'm not saying this is scientific fact, or that you have to believe it, I'm just saying that's what the real theory is in regards to meteorites and dinosaur's....
and people aren't making fun of you because you think differently, they're making fun of you because your logic is flawed and you are not using any scientific evidence.
As a fun fact, many anthropologists, archeologists, and in general scientists believe now that there was in fact a time of great flooding sometime in our past, though what caused it is still a source of debate.
edit : just read this
Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
Evolution is a fact. It cannot be denied (not successfully, at least).
Warxe, be careful when saying things like that, you can not call Evolution a fact, just like you can't call big bang, cosmic cloud, cataclysm, or even gravity a fact. They are scientific theories.
The first thing I learned when taking an anthropology class in college was that you never refer to Evolution as fact. Now, many scientists do, but they are often times a bit arrogant.
A theory is an attempt at explaining a physical phenomena using scientific evidence to back up your point. You can't call it fact because you can not prove it indefinately. Some of the most iron clad scientific theorys have been proven false, or not completely correct (like gravity, thanks to Einstein), so most smart scientists won't refer to any theory as fact.
I personally feel that more likely than not in 10 years all of our theories on evolution will have been completely revamped and reformed due to some new startling evidence. But that's just me.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
alright, how about how there's all these spots covered with land filled with fossils? there's no meteors found inside the earth in these spots practically, so wouldn't that mean that it formed amazingly fast? as in, over a few months? not millions of years. if it took the fossils to be buried then the earth would be filled with meteors in all of these places, and to my knowledge, its not filled with meteors.
this shows that the earth's millions of years didn't come from that, nore did evolution cause they were crushed under 40 days of worldwide flood water.
Preface: This is not a topic to make fun of you. Most of us are presenting evidence/theories that disprove what you think. The idea is that what we are purporting has been thought about and explained several times over, while your theories are things that you are either thinking up on the spot or have developed yourself, and I'm doubtful you are an expert on archeology or astrophysics.
As for your newest explanation, it works on the assumption that meteors are falling all the time.
there's no meteors found inside the earth in these spots practically, so wouldn't that mean that it formed amazingly fast?
Not necessarily. It is quite possible, and generally believed, that meteors actually falling on Earth that are large enough to actually be recognized from a pebble are such a hugely rare event that it would be foolish to think that meteors actually reach the surface all that often. The post above explains it better.
Moreover, it would take gargantuan amounts of pressure in order to compact the planet enough to create the Earth as it is now, at least if you assume there was a 40-day-long flood. The amount of water needed would affect the ecosystem of the world far too much to result in the varied ecosystems today - Deserts would not be deserts, but rather wetlands, as would more or less everything else be.
Believing in the Bible is fine, but trying to prove it using fault evidence isn't. That you are trying to prove the Bible using such evidence is a testament to your lack of faith - having been raised Christian, one of the biggest things taught to me was that God did not need to be proved - faith in him was what drove religion and faith in him should sustain you.
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I'm all for everyone having an opinion Domincy, but are you sure that's your opinion? You're brushing aside important evidence and stating complete untruths as facts... It sounds to me like you've been brainwashed. And I really feel sorry for you.
Don't take this the wrong way, it isn't a flame; maybe you should read up on some of the theories and evidence rather than blindly believing what your society has told you, and then make up your own mind. It'll help you take control of your own destiny, I think.
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I hate it when people say its "science vs faith". Evolution is faith too. And its not a matter of having evidence is how you view the evidence.
Edit: Btw i was just wondering for all you people that believe in evolution and all that stuff, whats your motive to make other people believe it too?
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No one is an idiot for believing anything..(save scientologists LOLkateyhomeslol dude who played slater on saved by da bell LOL)
But Domininicnicy, stop acting like you're advocating free speech or something. You're being a stubborn weiner too.
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Originally posted by Spike21
Edit: Btw i was just wondering for all you people that believe in evolution and all that stuff, whats your motive to make other people believe it too?
It's not a motive to make other people believe it - I've rarely ever heard of a proponent of evolution actively trying to make people believe it without being provoked. Rather, it's that a lot of people who believe in other faiths try to convince others, and that's where the debate starts. At that point it's an argument of who's makes more sense, who's has more evidence.
With most people who believe in evolution, when someone talks about religion like it is absolute, it's kind of annoying - the nature of science encourages disbelief and requires extensive proof. Thus we usually provide and require proof to believe in something. Hence why it is, in fact, faith vs science - science requires proof, faith requires the ability to believe. Whether one is greater than the other is something each person needs to decide for themselves.
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whoooo.... religion... >.> <.< I think instead of partaking in this glorious arguement I will simple state. Atheist.
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Originally posted by MrMister
No one is an idiot for believing anything..(save scientologists LOLkateyhomeslol dude who played slater on saved by da bell LOL)
But Domininicnicy, stop acting like you're advocating free speech or something. You're being a stubborn weiner too.
dominacy
dominincy
dominancy
dominicnicy,
ok, I get it that I may have seemed like I was trying to press how I feel on others, but that's not how I meant it, someone asked on our opinions and I answered, but for the love of all things good, its D-O-M-I-N-I-C-Y.
like, dominic, except with icy instead of -ic. ;D
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Originally posted by Osmose
Originally posted by Spike21
Edit: Btw i was just wondering for all you people that believe in evolution and all that stuff, whats your motive to make other people believe it too?
It's not a motive to make other people believe it - I've rarely ever heard of a proponent of evolution actively trying to make people believe it without being provoked. [/B]
That is completely understandable.
With most people who believe in evolution, when someone talks about religion like it is absolute, it's kind of annoying - the nature of science encourages disbelief and requires extensive proof. Thus we usually provide and require proof to believe in something. Hence why it is, in fact, faith vs science - science requires proof, faith requires the ability to believe. Whether one is greater than the other is something each person needs to decide for themselves.[/B]
... You are annoyed that we say that our belief is absolute yet you state that evolution is fact? Science must be measurable, observable, and repeatable. Evolution requires as much faith as Creationism. We both have the same evidience but look at them diffrently.
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Spike is completely right, Science takes faith just like religion. Sure, someone may say "this is true because of this, this, and this", but believing them, as in scientists, takes faith. Same with taking the word of religious figures such as Priests or text such as the Bible. Besides, where religious values and such remain generally constant (ignoring the instances where people altered the Bible to their liking, etc.), scientific theories are always being disproven. Both beliefs have their advantages and disadvantages.
I advocate science, though I'm only agnostic as opposed to atheistic or nontheistic. I have no qualms with 'creator'. Heck, a higher-dimensional being (see string-theory) could fulfil the roles of many gods yet fit in with science perfectly fine.
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But evolution has already been proven. Just look at the newer and more powerful strains of bacteria that appear every year.
Natural selection weeds out the inferior bacteria that can't resist antibiotics, then the new strain that can resist the medicine comes out of the bacteria that had the extra genetic mutation that can already resist it.
Thats evolution. So thus, it has been proven.
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Just because something makes sense doesn't mean it is fact. The way you move over land, and look at the horizon, the logical assumption is that the earth is stationary and flat. That was disproven by various theories and the eventual pictures of the earth.
No, evolution has not been proven. It has a lot of evidence, and makes a lot of sense, but it is just a commonly accepted theory.
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Quote me where I said evolution was a fact.
And I don't agree with your saying science is just as much faith as religion is, because, well, it isn't. Faith is believing in something based on personal decision, not because of logic or evidence. Science is based on believing in something because of logic and evidence.
In science, for something to be believed to be true, it must be proved with evidence. That evidence must be verified as being accurate. And not just one piece of coincidental evidence - there has to be repeatable, provable results for something to be proven. Science distinguishes between these by delegating the titles of theories, hypothesis, and laws.
A hypothesis is an explanation that has yet to get sufficient evidence to be probable. If an explanation has a good amount of provable evidence that can be repeated, it becomes a theory - the public often mistakes the normal meaning of theory, as a guess, with the scientific meaning of theory, which holds much more validity, but is still hardly "TRUE, 100% TRUE". A law is something that has been tested for so long and has had little to no contrary evidence that the chances of it not being true are small (but still existent - anything can be proven wrong, although it would take more than just one or two instances where it's proven false to be taken down).
The only faith involved would be a faith in logic, which is, by extension, a faith in reasoning, and if you don't believe in reasoning, well, that's just quite odd, as you don't believe that your decision to drink when you are thirsty is really a decision backed by the logic, "I am thirsty, so I should drink."
Believing in reasoning does not require acceptance of science - certainly you can choose to believe in some sort of religion and still believe in religion, and many people do - but saying that science and religion both require faith is wrong, I believe - science exists to give us people with little faith something to believe.
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Can some one define evolution. I don't think evolution is what you all think it is.
And I believe in Science 100% and Creationism 100%. They don't contradict. Neither does science and evolution, but they are not the same thing.
Edit: Srry Osmoose i didn't mean you but other people. And i am not saying science takes as much faith as religion. I am saying evolution is not science and it takes faith.
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Evolution is the general name used for a set of beliefs centered around the concept that is actually evolution. Evolution purports that humans, as well as other animals, exist as they are today because, over time, they adapted to their environments - such that humans were once, millions of years ago, a type of simian (monkey, roughly) that slowly developed an upright posture and the cognitive capacity to think, speak, use tools, communicate, etc. In the same way, other animals also adapted - bears located in the frigid North and South Pole areas developed a white fur coat over thousands, tens of thousands even of years so that they would blend in with their environment better.
It's not something one can consciously do - it's a biological thing that happens too slowly for anyone to do anything about it - any significant evolutionary changes take millions of years to develop.
In order for evolution to fit within a timeline, one usually also believes that the Earth has existed for a few billion years in order for evolution to have taken this course. There's a plethora of other theories and facets of science that tie in to create a general picture that most scientists accept as the most likely way things happened.
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What kind of evolution do you believe in? Like mutation or the other one i forget what its called?
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Here's what I think: A god, with no name whatsoever, nor a certain form, created earth. He made creatures, lions, dinosaurs, tigers, bears, rats, horses, fish, amoebas, all those things. Oh, and trees. Yep. He got bored of looking at things with no sentience, so he made twelve humans on twelve different places on the world. Suddenly, the god was hit in the head with a mace by a mad scientist and he died. Though the god had died, the twelve humans had seen the god, and from there, they evolved their own ideas. One human fabricated this image of god as Judaism, another thought Hinduism from it. Yet another derived Shintoism from the image of this god. Another saw the god and came up with the Greek religious ideals. Whatever they are. Zeus and Hera and all that. Others came up with Animism, Taoism, and the very rare and exclusive Holy Mace-in-head religion, which was the twelfth human on the earth, and the only one to actually know what happened to the god.
I, my friends, am a pround descendant of this great ancestor. The discoverer of Holy Mace-in-head-ism.
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I never heard of any other type of evolution, at least that I can currently remember. I believe the evolution where organisms adapt to their conditions.
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Originally posted by Bluhman
Holy Mace-in-head-ism.
Can't be disproven. lol
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Originally posted by Bluhman
Here's what I think: A god, with no name whatsoever, nor a certain form, created earth. He made creatures, lions, dinosaurs, tigers, bears, rats, horses, fish, amoebas, all those things. Oh, and trees. Yep. He got bored of looking at things with no sentience, so he made twelve humans on twelve different places on the world. Suddenly, the god was hit in the head with a mace by a mad scientist and he died. Though the god had died, the twelve humans had seen the god, and from there, they evolved their own ideas. One human fabricated this image of god as Judaism, another thought Hinduism from it. Yet another derived Shintoism from the image of this god. Another saw the god and came up with the Greek religious ideals. Whatever they are. Zeus and Hera and all that. Others came up with Animism, Taoism, and the very rare and exclusive Holy Mace-in-head religion, which was the twelfth human on the earth, and the only one to actually know what happened to the god.
I, my friends, am a pround descendant of this great ancestor. The discoverer of Holy Mace-in-head-ism.
well, you lost your mysterious image in my eyes now.
that's completely stupid, but hilarious! I genuinely hope you really don't think that! xD
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Darwin is my bitch.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
that's completely stupid, but hilarious! I genuinely hope you really don't think that! xD
Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
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Your words are as empty as your prospects for sex. Mankind ill needs anyone such as you.
It had to be said.
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Dude you're ruining my awesome moment.
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Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by Dominicy
that's completely stupid, but hilarious! I genuinely hope you really don't think that! xD
Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.[/B]
ah hahahaha, your hilarious. _sweat_ this is the least appropriate time to use a quote like that. (that being, at a religious debate.)
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Originally posted by Dominicy
like, dominic, except with icy instead of -ic. ;D
Why not, dominic with an -y?
edit: nice quote bug ~MrMister
edit 2: Sorry, didn't notice ~Drace
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Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by Dominicy
that's completely stupid, but hilarious! I genuinely hope you really don't think that! xD
Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.[/B]
ah hahahaha, your hilarious. _sweat_ this is the least appropriate time to use a quote like that. (that being, at a religious debate.)[/B]
But that's the sweetest thing - it's absolutely true. I could take what you said and use it against any religion, if I felt that way about said religion.
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I'mn afraid it's true Dominicy. Just because more people believe in 'Christianity' than in 'mace in the headism' doesn't make christianity any more likely. Hmmm... 'Mace in the headism' would explain a lot. But had the god and the scientist always existed Bluhman?
Expounding on Bluhman's mad scientist theory, what if someone in the future manages to make a time machine, but it goes horribly wrong and sucks the entire universe into the time portal and back to the beginning of the world, where all the matter is broken up into hydrogen molecules and the energy blasts it all outwards, thus forming the universe? Cycle-y.
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Well, about christianity, Jesus existed, that's a proven fact, but if he was a Holy man or not... that's something you have to work on your own.
There's no need to be mocking no one's ideas here, because it's turning into the old "religion vs science" bullshit.
Razor, Osmose, you can keep trying making fun of Dominicy (I SPELT IT RIGHT LOL), but his head won't change. He has his faith and he won't change it for scientific facts. The same goes to you Dominicy, you can't change Osmose's or Razor's ideas from night to morning.
They believe in whatever they believe. There's no need to separate science from metaphisic beliefs.
I see it this way: in old times, Church spreaded the belief that the Sun moved around the Earth. But not because of some stuff written in the Bible, it was just what they OBSERVED. What ANYONE observed in that moment. But they were proven wrong but true observation and facts.
Does it change the posibility of God's existance? Not at all, you can believe in God AND science, and you're not going to hell because of it.
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If there's a god, so what? If not, I guess people been wasting their sundays.
I myself believe there is no god. Such a thing is preposterous. Some giant figure hovering above us in la-la land? Where exactl yis heaven if it exists? In space? Ain't no air in space, dingus! But there is an Erin Space. :P Is there a hell? Beats me.
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There are a lot of religions out there, and all of them say, or at least imply, that if you are not a follower of that religion, then you are a heathen and are going to Hell. And since nobody is a follower of all faiths, we can say that everyone is going to Hell at some point.
That is, if there is a Hell. Which I doubt.
I'll simply fuel the existing debate by quoting the Hitchhiker's Guide.
Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The arguement goes something like this:
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't though of that" and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.
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Originally posted by Spike21
What kind of evolution do you believe in? Like mutation or the other one i forget what its called?
Are you perhaps referring to "punctuated equilibrium"?
If science does take "Faith", then it is simply a faith in evidence, and this is a faith that all mentally healthy people share.
Why do I bother eating? Because I know on personal evidence that I will be hungry if I do not, and I know on anecdotal evidence that going hungry for a long time is lethal.
If we are willing to sacrifice science, then we should also sacrifice any kind of reason or common sense that we have. This is not a defense of evolution or any kind of scientific idea, mind you. Like spike said, you may still interpret evidence in different ways.
Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
This reminds me of an anecdote involving an anthropologist having dinner with a christian friend. They spoke of an african tribe he was studying who believed that witches could detach their livers and send them flying into the night, sucking their enemy's blood. To which the christian said:
"Your job must be so difficult, when trying to understand why people believe such nonsensical things."
To which the anthtopologist replied:
"Not much more difficult than understanding why people believe a 2000 year old carpenter rose from the dead."
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
I'mn afraid it's true Dominicy. Just because more people believe in 'Christianity' than in 'mace in the headism' doesn't make christianity any more likely. Hmmm... 'Mace in the headism' would explain a lot. But had the god and the scientist always existed Bluhman?
Expounding on Bluhman's mad scientist theory, what if someone in the future manages to make a time machine, but it goes horribly wrong and sucks the entire universe into the time portal and back to the beginning of the world, where all the matter is broken up into hydrogen molecules and the energy blasts it all outwards, thus forming the universe? Cycle-y.
Now that you have said that, yes. It all makes sense now. Through inventing and using the time machine to return to the beginning of time, The mad Scientists managed to do two things.
1. He managed to make the big bang, from whence all the stars and dimensions in the universe originated from...
2. Through paradoxial corruption and scientific defication, the scientist became a cosmic deity.
Soon after the Mad Scientist met with the god, who actually, too, was created from the big bang, the Mad Scientist taught the god how to craft planets. Thanks to this mad scientist, the creation of planets started several million years earlier. After all the dead, lifeless planets in the universe were made, the god got bored and made earth. Using a mace, the Mad Scientist betrayed god and smacked his head in using a mace.
This smack in the head, of course, caused two things.
1. The symentanious creation of every single inate religion in the world.
2. The invention of the mace.
Mace-in-headists eventually managed to make the weapon that the scientist had used to kill the god. Seeing how often the mace was used in the middle ages, it was very obvious how influental Mace-in-headism had become, and since medieval europe was largely non-secular at the time, the time proved how effective Mace-in-headism was in fueling the Renaissance, and driving us into the future, where the mad scientist was born and went back to create the universe, every religion, and a very useful medieval weapon.
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... Science doesn't really take faith. Evolution does... So you say you believe in mutation. Over 80% of mutations are somatic and most are harm full. Lets say fruit flys for example, a fruit fly with 4 wings is worse of than one with 2. Because the 2 extra wings aren't attached to a muscle so they dissable it to fly.
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Originally posted by Bluhman
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
I'mn afraid it's true Dominicy. Just because more people believe in 'Christianity' than in 'mace in the headism' doesn't make christianity any more likely. Hmmm... 'Mace in the headism' would explain a lot. But had the god and the scientist always existed Bluhman?
Expounding on Bluhman's mad scientist theory, what if someone in the future manages to make a time machine, but it goes horribly wrong and sucks the entire universe into the time portal and back to the beginning of the world, where all the matter is broken up into hydrogen molecules and the energy blasts it all outwards, thus forming the universe? Cycle-y.
Now that you have said that, yes. It all makes sense now. Through inventing and using the time machine to return to the beginning of time, The mad Scientists managed to do two things.
1. He managed to make the big bang, from whence all the stars and dimensions in the universe originated from...
2. Through paradoxial corruption and scientific defication, the scientist became a cosmic deity.
Soon after the Mad Scientist met with the god, who actually, too, was created from the big bang, the Mad Scientist taught the god how to craft planets. Thanks to this mad scientist, the creation of planets started several million years earlier. After all the dead, lifeless planets in the universe were made, the god got bored and made earth. Using a mace, the Mad Scientist betrayed god and smacked his head in using a mace.
This smack in the head, of course, caused two things.
1. The symentanious creation of every single inate religion in the world.
2. The invention of the mace.
Mace-in-headists eventually managed to make the weapon that the scientist had used to kill the god. Seeing how often the mace was used in the middle ages, it was very obvious how influental Mace-in-headism had become, and since medieval europe was largely non-secular at the time, the time proved how effective Mace-in-headism was in fueling the Renaissance, and driving us into the future, where the mad scientist was born and went back to create the universe, every religion, and a very useful medieval weapon.[/B]
First of all, according to modern science, time is not linear. Time, or duration, is much the same as distance. If you drew a line connecting two different points in time (each one being a different state of the universe), you've drawn a line through the fourth dimension. Now, all the branches that extend towards and away from your current point in time are contained within the fifth dimension. Long story short, even if scientists somehow destroyed the universe, that would only be in one specific timeline, and wouldn't necessarily affect us.
Bluhman, the Big Bang did not create any dimensions, after all, dimensions aren't 'things'. Our universe, and all of its possible states and endings, are contained within one point in the seventh dimension.
Modern science tells us that reality is created by obervation. All particles are actually parts of waves, waves of quantum probability. Once observed, a logical (well, it could be the illogical) history is "created" for that particle. Heck, our universe could have been created by the act of observation two billion years ago, or two seconds ago. The history would be created invluding memories, so we would only think we've existed for our lifetime, but in fact, were just created last minute.
The point of that is, is that if reality is only what you see, then theoritically we all create our own realities. If your reality has a God, so be it. If yours doesn't, so be it.
There, I both disproved and proved God's existence, using science.
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Originally posted by Spike21
... Science doesn't really take faith. Evolution does... So you say you believe in mutation. Over 80% of mutations are somatic and most are harm full. Lets say fruit flys for example, a fruit fly with 4 wings is worse of than one with 2. Because the 2 extra wings aren't attached to a muscle so they dissable it to fly.
As with any example of evolution, the key is fitting the surroundings. A 4 winged fly might be weighed down, but what if we applyed a changed to the enviroment?
What if there was a predator, say a lizard, that ate fly wings, one at a time? The two winged flys would be at a disadvantage because once one wing was gone, they would not be able to fly, but the 4 winged ones would have at least some advantage because there would be a 1 in 2 chance that the lizard would snap up a wing that was useless anyway, giving the fly time to escape.
I just made that up off the top of my head, but you can see how it would favour the the survival and subsequent reproduction of 4-winged flys, thus causing them to slowly become the dominant flys.
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But a fly with 4 wings is nearly completely imobile. And if the fly reproduced the little fly babys would only have 2 wings because the mutation is somatic.
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Originally posted by Spike21
But a fly with 4 wings is nearly completely imobile. And if the fly reproduced the little fly babys would only have 2 wings because the mutation is somatic.
Well, okay, but it still works as an example.
But in all honesty, one would expect harmful mutations to vastly outweigh good ones. Evolution doesn't know what will be good and what won't- it's random- and there are more ways to make an unsuccessful living being than there are to make a successful one, if you see what I'm saying. Having said that, "harmful" in this context is relative, its all about the enviroment, dawg.
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true. But some mutations are deadly or are harmful in any enviorment. But it would take a really long time for one organism to have a helpful genetic mutation multiple times to change to another organism.
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Originally posted by Spike21
true. But some mutations are deadly or are harmful in any enviorment. But it would take a really long time for one organism to have a helpful genetic mutation multiple times to change to another organism.
Exactly right! Any evolutionary biologist would agree with you. But over millions of years, these small probabilities become almost inevitable.
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Red and Spike both have a point. Buut, I think evolution is the most realistic option we have, and due to a lot of evidence, I'm inclined to believe it.
It seems this planet is full of astonishing coincidences. We're incredibly lucky to even exist.
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Originally posted by Spike21
true. But some mutations are deadly or are harmful in any enviorment. But it would take a really long time for one organism to have a helpful genetic mutation multiple times to change to another organism.
Yes, it takes a long time, try a few million years. That's why you don't see evolution, you have to compare a species to itself millions of years ago to see the picture.
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
It seems this planet is full of astonishing coincidences. We're incredibly lucky to even exist.
Yep. And there is a simple way that scientists explain it (at least, to the question of the chance that us humans resulted from evolution):
"If we weren't here, we couldn't ask the question."
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Then were are the fossils of the middle creatures. And why do all the fossils like apear at once?
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Originally posted by Kinslayer
Razor, Osmose, you can keep trying making fun of Dominicy
We stopped making fun of him a while ago. Now we're just tackling the blatantly wrong things.
And by wrong things, I don't mean his religious beliefs, I mean "Where does water go once it is evapourated" and the like.
edit: OLOLOLOLO I MOCK YOUR SLOW POSTING SPEED MOOSETROOP
MOOOOOOCK
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0_o they don't. They're in different layers of rock that can be dated to show when the creature died.
If you mean why were they all dug up now, it's just that we didn't really know they were there. We started finding fossilised remains in the victorian times or something, I think.
EDIT: I'm talking to Spike. Curse your quick post Razorrrr
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
It seems this planet is full of astonishing coincidences. We're incredibly lucky to even exist.
Indeed, who knows what tiny changes in enviroment could have fired our ancestry on a different trajectory?
Then were are the fossils of the middle creatures. And why do all the fossils like apear at once?
There are many, many (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transitional_fossils) transitional fossils, but you have to understand that there will always be gaps. 99.99% of creatures don't fossilize, strict conditions need to be met. In order to have a fossil history completely void of "missing links" we would need to have the fossil of every creature that had ever existed.
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When exactly is a person considered brainwashed when it comes to Christianity?
It was in the newspaper a couple months ago that a Bible Camp was brainwashing children (Or was it Fox News, I can't remember).
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6182248473879202794&q=jesus+camp
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Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
When exactly is a person considered brainwashed when it comes to Christianity?
It was in the newspaper a couple months ago that a Bible Camp was brainwashing children (Or was it Fox News, I can't remember).
It's pretty easy to Brainwash children. Fear is a very powerful way to control them.
As to when an adult is brainwashed... I'd say when they are willing to be a Martyr.
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About the layers... They have found Trilobites fossils open and tracks from one layer to another "trying to dig out" Are you saying trilobites live thousands of years and move really slow. If so how did those select fossils stay open when they died?
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Now I'm not here to say anyones wrong or their ideas are dumb. I just want to tell you what i believe. About 4 years ago i was at the worst part in my life i was far to overweight. i had no friends and was in a spiral down ward. I would fake sick just to not go to school and face all of it. One day in 5th grade i woke up to my dad screaming and my sister crying out of control. I Look in the bathroom and there is my mom lying on the floor not breathing. I was only 10 years old and without any one telling me to or "Brainwashing" me i just began to pray i rely didn't know how but i just did. My mom died the day March 4th 2004. And my life hasn't been the same after that day. After that all i could do was turn to God for a way to get out of the place i was in. In 1 years time i had lost 35 pounds and found a reason to wake up and go to school that reason was God and still is God. Over the years my family and i have found a very caring church and loving support from our friends and neighbors. I'm 13 now and i just wanted to say i don't care if this doesn't even get a comment back or any response i just wanted to put this out here and tell all of you if your lost God is always there for you and waiting for you to ask him to be your savior.
i just wanted to add one thing I'm not a religious person I'm a faithful person there is a lot wrong with religion but i am just a Christian not a specific denomination.
God Bless
Max
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
When exactly is a person considered brainwashed when it comes to Christianity?
It was in the newspaper a couple months ago that a Bible Camp was brainwashing children (Or was it Fox News, I can't remember).
It's pretty easy to Brainwash children. Fear is a very powerful way to control them.
As to when an adult is brainwashed... I'd say when they are willing to be a Martyr.[/B]
I'd be willing to die a martyr. :bee_wtf: infact, in my opinion, if your not willing to give up your life for the one you see as your savior, then I guess its understandable because of the fear but at the same time pretty shameful. if you think someone is your savior, you should be willing to die for them. :D
"Now I'm not here to say anyones wrong or their ideas are dumb. I just want to tell you what i believe. About 4 years ago i was at the worst part in my life i was far to overweight. i had no friends and was in a spiral down ward. I would fake sick just to not go to school and face all of it. One day in 5th grade i woke up to my dad screaming and my sister crying out of control. I Look in the bathroom and there is my mom lying on the floor not breathing. I was only 10 years old and without any one telling me to or "Brainwashing" me i just began to pray i rely didn't know how but i just did. My mom died the day March 4th 2004. And my life hasn't been the same after that day. After that all i could do was turn to God for a way to get out of the place i was in. In 1 years time i had lost 35 pounds and found a reason to wake up and go to school that reason was God and still is God. Over the years my family and i have found a very caring church and loving support from our friends and neighbors. I'm 13 now and i just wanted to say i don't care if this doesn't even get a comment back or any response i just wanted to put this out here and tell all of you if your lost God is always there for you and waiting for you to ask him to be your savior.
i just wanted to add one thing I'm not a religious person I'm a faithful person there is a lot wrong with religion but i am just a Christian not a specific denomination. "
I'm very sorry that happened, but in reality, I wanted to state that christianity is not a religion, but, it would've probably led to more flaming. I completely agree with all that he said.
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thanks Dominicy and God bless
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How is Christianity not a religion?
Remember, I am a Christian as well so it's not meant to sound offensive. Even I am willing to die a martyr (This does NOT mean I'm going to go out and kill myself or something).
Originally posted by redwallmax
Now I'm not here to say anyones wrong or their ideas are dumb. I just want to tell you what i believe. About 4 years ago i was at the worst part in my life i was far to overweight. i had no friends and was in a spiral down ward. I would fake sick just to not go to school and face all of it. One day in 5th grade i woke up to my dad screaming and my sister crying out of control. I Look in the bathroom and there is my mom lying on the floor not breathing. I was only 10 years old and without any one telling me to or "Brainwashing" me i just began to pray i rely didn't know how but i just did. My mom died the day March 4th 2004. And my life hasn't been the same after that day. After that all i could do was turn to God for a way to get out of the place i was in. In 1 years time i had lost 35 pounds and found a reason to wake up and go to school that reason was God and still is God. Over the years my family and i have found a very caring church and loving support from our friends and neighbors. I'm 13 now and i just wanted to say i don't care if this doesn't even get a comment back or any response i just wanted to put this out here and tell all of you if your lost God is always there for you and waiting for you to ask him to be your savior.
God Bless
Max
I like you. Could you space out your words a little more though? A big clump is kinda hard to read. I'm a little disturbed by someone having a depression in the 5th grade though.
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well you know its true and thats just one example of what gods love can do and his grace can change.
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Christianity isn't exactly a religion, it's a generalization or catagory of worship. Several religions go under Christianity, like Catholics, Puritans, Luthrens, ect.
Of course, this could be argued profusely.
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Odd, aboutasoandthis you seem familiar somehow. O_o
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I could lose 35 pounds in a month, lol.
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Originally Posted by Meiscool
Christianity isn't exactly a religion, it's a generalization or catagory of worship. Several religions go under Christianity, like Catholics, Puritans, Luthrens, ect.
Of course, this could be argued profusely.
I see your point.
Originally Posted by Darkfox Odd, aboutasoandthis you seem familiar somehow. O_o
Is this a good or bad thing?
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I could lose 35 pounds in a month, lol.
Uhhhh... what does that have to do with anything? Good... for you?
Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
Is this a good or bad thing?
Well depends on how you look on it. A friend of mine has that exact avatar and it just confused me a lil.
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redwallmax, do you know of the phrases "mind over matter" or "the power of suggestion"? Your hope and faith in God, purely as a form of faith, you perservered. Not to say that you're wrong, but focusing your mind on anything can make drastic changes, regardless of what it was.
Th unfortunate death of your mother could even be considered a strong enough motivation for your turn-around.
Originally posted by Spike21
About the layers... They have found Trilobites fossils open and tracks from one layer to another "trying to dig out" Are you saying trilobites live thousands of years and move really slow. If so how did those select fossils stay open when they died?
Link for proof or it didn't happen.
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Originally posted by Daetyrnis
redwallmax, do you know of the phrases "mind over matter" or "the power of suggestion"? Your hope and faith in God, purely as a form of faith, you perservered. Not to say that you're wrong, but focusing your mind on anything can make drastic changes, regardless of what it was.
Th unfortunate death of your mother could even be considered a strong enough motivation for your turn-around.
Believe what you want but i choose and fully believe in God and the way he can just change your life.
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Originally posted by Daetyrnis
redwallmax, do you know of the phrases "mind over matter" or "the power of suggestion"? Your hope and faith in God, purely as a form of faith, you perservered. Not to say that you're wrong, but focusing your mind on anything can make drastic changes, regardless of what it was.
Th unfortunate death of your mother could even be considered a strong enough motivation for your turn-around.
I would have said something similar, but it sounds better when other people say it.
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Let's all buy the Pat Robertson protein shake!
-_-. I should stop reading this thread, I'm starting to feel sorry for some people and their perceptions.
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Redwall:
You prayed to God because you were scared as to what you will do without your mother.
Believing in a holy avatar, you used it as an ideal to change yourself to become a stronger person.
God doesn't work wonders. People are driven through the thought of a God to work wonders.
Now... I'm not saying your God isn't real. I'm just saying that it didn't do it for you, you just had the will power and did it yourself.
EDIT:
charaman: XD!!!! Horrible, but funny as the hell catholics believe in.
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Redwall:
You prayed to God because you were scared as to what you will do without your mother.
Believing in a holy avatar, you used it as an ideal to change yourself to become a stronger person.
God doesn't work wonders. People are driven through the thought of a God to work wonders.
Now... I'm not saying your God isn't real. I'm just saying that it didn't do it for you, you just had the will power and did it yourself.
.
Thats a very magickal way of thinking. I like it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic
yeah it's pretty much similar to that idea, that belief is what makes something true, not fact.
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Originally posted by Daetyrnis
Originally posted by Spike21
About the layers... They have found Trilobites fossils open and tracks from one layer to another "trying to dig out" Are you saying trilobites live thousands of years and move really slow. If so how did those select fossils stay open when they died?
Link for proof or it didn't happen.[/B]
... Not all iformation I get is from the internet... but I will try and get a source to you soon.
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Originally posted by charaman
Originally posted by Meiscool
Redwall:
You prayed to God because you were scared as to what you will do without your mother.
Believing in a holy avatar, you used it as an ideal to change yourself to become a stronger person.
God doesn't work wonders. People are driven through the thought of a God to work wonders.
Now... I'm not saying your God isn't real. I'm just saying that it didn't do it for you, you just had the will power and did it yourself.
.
Thats a very magickal way of thinking. I like it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_magic
yeah it's pretty much similar to that idea, that belief is what makes something true, not fact.[/B]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction_%28New_Age%29
Seriously though, I don't think there's much magic involved in motivation. Believing that there is someone who will always, always love me for eternity is pretty motivating.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction_%28New_Age%29
Seriously though, I don't think there's much magic involved in motivation. Believing that there is someone who will always, always love me for eternity is pretty motivating.
But that person is a man! Where is your motivation now?!
Also, Law of Attraction: There was a special on TV recently (a repeat of something from 2006, apparently) regarding that. It sounded like utter crap. If Law of Attraction was real, I would be incredibly rich by now.
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Darwin is still my bitch guys.
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Jesus Camp scared me.
"I like christian Heavy Metal."
HOW CAN THAT EXIST!? It's INLOGICAL (illogical?).
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Originally posted by Drace
Jesus Camp scared me.
"I like christian Heavy Metal."
HOW CAN THAT EXIST!? It's INLOGICAL (illogical?).
there's a such music style as christian heavy metal? o,o;;;
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No, there is not Christian heavy metal. There's probably Christian numetal, though.
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Screw your Christian heavy metal.
Christian DEATH metal is where it's at.
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Nothing wrong with christian heavy/death metal.
Demon Hunter and The Showdown rock.
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Originally posted by Razor
Also, Law of Attraction: There was a special on TV recently (a repeat of something from 2006, apparently) regarding that. It sounded like utter crap. If Law of Attraction was real, I would be incredibly rich by now.
Indeed. And if it were centered around the basis that thoughts gave out energy waves and that common energys were attracted to each other, what if I thought relentlessly that common energys weren't attracted to each other?
Or perhaps, as suggested by some sources and as things such as the placebo effect, the key is not will but belief. But then delusion and reality would become nigh indistinguishable.
Originally posted by Razor
But that person is a man! Where is your motivation now?!
Increased sevenfold, my dear friend.
EDIT: You know Christian bands really kinda piss me off. It's like, yeah, okay, I get it. You have faith and your life with Jesus is great but can you JUST ONCE make a song about SOMETHING ELSE. No offense or anything but honestly, they're all one trick ponys.
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Only christian band I like is Muse.
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
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Originally posted by ImmortalDreamer
Demon Hunter and The Showdown rock.
Yes Doctor, it sounds to me like a rather nasty case of you need good music (http://www.mastodonrocks.com).
Are religious people more likely to survive accidents and natural disasters? I'd like to know that my God whom I trust and have absolute faith in isn't going to kill me off for shits and giggles whilst letting some Godless Heathens wander around and pee on my grave.
It's a nice thought.
EDIT: Also, shits isn't censored. Lol.
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
is that a good thing or a bad thing?
i dont know but i rely like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TyAA90k7gE&mode=related&search=
watch it if you want and i dont want anyone complaining that i posted it
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It's a good thing.
EDIT: Shits. Hehehehehe
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I don't know why, but christian music tends to suck.
I can picture God complaining: "Why do this guys do this to me...!!!"
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Yeah, everyone knows God listens to Slayer.
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Only christian band I like is Muse.
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
and I used to think you were one of the better mods. pppfff, not much after that comment though. :s
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Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Only christian band I like is Muse.
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
and I used to think you were one of the better mods. pppfff, not much after that comment though. :s [/B]
Not a muse fan, eh?
Btw, moosetroop, Muse are a christian band?!... they don't seem to do a whole lot of songs that could be interpreted as in praise of Jesus... I don't think.
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Originally posted by Dragonium
Yeah, everyone knows God listens to Slayer.
Yeah, he lsitens to me... Oh wait, you said Slayer, not KINslayer xD my mistake.
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God: Jesus, piss off. I'm listening the number of the beast!
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Jesus: "Okay Dad, I guess I'll be listening Deal with the Devil with the guys. Disciples! let's go to the garage!"
God: "Heh... kids..."
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Originally posted by Dragonium
Yeah, everyone knows God listens to Slayer.
Slayer's a real band? Woah, I thought they were a group of Vietnamese people having their intestines pulled out through their mouths.
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by Dragonium
Yeah, everyone knows God listens to Slayer.
Slayer's a real band? Woah, I thought they were a group of Vietnamese people having their intestines pulled out through their mouths.[/B]
edit: No Chuck Norris jokes.
Moderated!!!
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A YEAR DUDE. Chuck Norris stopped being funny A WHOLE YEAR AGO.
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Originally posted by Razor
A YEAR DUDE. Chuck Norris stopped being funny A WHOLE YEAR AGO.
Thanks for the backseat mod, bro
Rule 613: No chux norrix
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Originally posted by Kinslayer
Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by Dragonium
Yeah, everyone knows God listens to Slayer.
Slayer's a real band? Woah, I thought they were a group of Vietnamese people having their intestines pulled out through their mouths.[/B]
edit: No Chuck Norris jokes.
Moderated!!![/B]
That's a Chuck Norris joke? 0_o
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by Kinslayer
Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by Dragonium
Yeah, everyone knows God listens to Slayer.
Slayer's a real band? Woah, I thought they were a group of Vietnamese people having their intestines pulled out through their mouths.[/B]
edit: No Chuck Norris jokes.
Moderated!!![/B]
That's a Chuck Norris joke? 0_o[/B]
I don't know, he mentioned him though o_o
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That's a rule now?
Best. Rule. Ever.
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Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Razor
A YEAR DUDE. Chuck Norris stopped being funny A WHOLE YEAR AGO.
Thanks for the backseat mod, bro
Rule 613: No chux norrix
[/B]
that's a stupid rule. >.<
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Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Razor
A YEAR DUDE. Chuck Norris stopped being funny A WHOLE YEAR AGO.
Thanks for the backseat mod, bro
Rule 613: No chux norrix
[/B]
that's a stupid rule. >.<[/B]
You're a stupid person. Don't question the management.
And talk about God.
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My belief is that god is completly in agreance with MM.
Chuck norris has no place in this thread.
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Originally posted by gemini
My belief is that god is completly in agreance with MM.
Chuck norris has no place in this thread.
true, but regardless....eh screw it. chuck norris is a washed up fruit anyway. :yell:
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You heretics! How dare you doubt of Chucknorrisism!!!!
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If God is omnipotent and omniscient and has a plan, then at the very beggining of creation he would have known everything that would happen in the future. Is it possible then, to go against God's will, because surely he would have forseen your actions?
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God knows what your going to do and when your going to do it but he also knows what he wants you to do and trys to lead you to do the right thing but thats where free will comes in. You have the choice to go against Gods will but it isnt always gods will. And he knows you go against his will but it is his will sometimes to go against his will. So the answer in short is yes but he always knows what you are going to do.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Only christian band I like is Muse.
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
and I used to think you were one of the better mods. pppfff, not much after that comment though. :s [/B]
...0_o?
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Only christian band I like is Muse.
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
and I used to think you were one of the better mods. pppfff, not much after that comment though. :s [/B]
...0_o?[/B]
you said that they're the only reason christians are worth existing! suddenly my entire image of you is shattered into amillionbillion little mooselet troops.
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Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Originally posted by Dominicy
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
Only christian band I like is Muse.
And Redwall, people like you are the reason it's worth christianity existing.
and I used to think you were one of the better mods. pppfff, not much after that comment though. :s [/B]
...0_o?[/B]
you said that they're the only reason christians are worth existing! suddenly my entire image of you is shattered into amillionbillion little mooselet troops.[/B]
No, he said that people like redwallmax, the one with the sad story, are the reason that Christianity exists, not some band.
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Well don't you think that's the most important thing about Christianity? Comfort? So many people are kept going by their faith. In that way christianity is helping people. Isn't that what it should be about?
What, you're going to tell me that the greatest thing about christianity is learning about Cain and Abel and not going to hell? Surely you value human lives over that stuff.
EDIT: Oops, he was still talking about Muse?? XDD Thanks rotd
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Originally posted by redwallmax
God knows what your going to do and when your going to do it but he also knows what he wants you to do and trys to lead you to do the right thing but thats where free will comes in. You have the choice to go against Gods will but it isnt always gods will. And he knows you go against his will but it is his will sometimes to go against his will. So the answer in short is yes but he always knows what you are going to do.
So you're saying
-God knows what you will do.
-God knows when you will do it.
-God knows what he wants you to do.
-God tries to make you do it.
-You can go against God's will, but what you think is God's will (which you are going against) isn't always God's will.
-You going against what you think is God's will is in fact, God's will.
Couldn't you have just said "No, because what you may think is going against God's will is already foreseen and thus not against His will."?
Meh.
Originally posted by Red Giant
If God is omnipotent and omniscient and has a plan, then at the very beggining of creation he would have known everything that would happen in the future. Is it possible then, to go against God's will, because surely he would have forseen your actions?
If that was the case, then everyone has a set path (or destiny) that they follow. Thus no one would actually have free will, so it would be impossible to go against God's will.
Originally posted by Moosetroop11Oops, he was still talking about Muse?? XDD Thanks rotd
No problem.
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Red, He created free will. I guess He knew that freedom would be more important to us than happiness.
Somewhat relevant: John 8:30-36 Such power attended our Lord's words, that many were convinced, and professed to believe in him. He encouraged them to attend his teaching, rely on his promises, and obey his commands, notwithstanding all temptations to evil. Thus doing, they would be his disciples truly; and by the teaching of his word and Spirit, they would learn where their hope and strength lay. Christ spoke of spiritual liberty; but carnal hearts feel no other grievances than those that molest the body, and distress their worldly affairs. Talk to them of their liberty and property, tell them of waste committed upon their lands, or damage done to their houses, and they understand you very well; but speak of the bondage of sin, captivity to Satan, and liberty by Christ; tell of wrong done to their precious souls, and the hazard of their eternal welfare, then you bring strange things to their ears. Jesus plainly reminded them, that the man who practised any sin, was, in fact, a slave to that sin, which was the case with most of them. Christ in the gospel offers us freedom, he has power to do this, and those whom Christ makes free are really so. But often we see persons disputing about liberty of every kind, while they are slaves to some sinful lust.
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To me, it's like a game of chess. Sometimes you know what the other guy is going to do, but doesn't mean you make him do it.
The thing is that God allows evil, even though is not his wish. Why could that be?
Well, if I knew, I would be writing a book instead of talking to you guys.
I think that is the price that had to be paid for our free will... but who knows.
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Let me pull back out the clock maker analogy. When he makes a clock, he knows that it will have 60 ticks to move the hand a minute, and it will have to make 3600 ticks to make an hour. He knows this is how it will work. He doesn't, however, know what problems may sporadically appear to cause it to run differently. God knows what we will do, and he knows what will happen, he just doesn't know what we will do individually to cause it to change. But these are all minor events, they don't change the big picture.
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To me, God created free will, and chaos.
I mean, I believe thta both Heaven and Hell exist, right? may I have my reasons etc, who cares. My point is that, if God is going to judge our actions, then how can he judge us if we did excactly what he planned?
There's no morale in something that works automatically, and if there exists a Hell, a Heaven or a Purgatory, the judgements must be made acordding to morale actions. If actions are predestined, then the whole "creation" thing is pointless, because it is like just writing 2+2 on a paper.
You know that 2+2= 4 (if not, you're evidently retarded or analphabet :p), therefore, it's just pointless to judge someone when he is doing exactly what you told him to do.
That's why he created free will and chaos. Free will allows us to make our own call over a morale action, and chaos is simply things you can't really control (sickness and stuff), which happen randomly.
That's what I think... explained in a rush, but yeah, it's most of it.
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Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
he just doesn't know
Isn't God supposed to be omnipotent, with no imperfections whatsoever?
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Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
he just doesn't know
Isn't God supposed to be omnipotent, with no imperfections whatsoever?[/B]
What I mean is he knows what will happen, just not how it will happen. I believe he grants us the freedom to choose our own path to a decided location.
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If God is omnipotent, how's come he can't make a rock that even he can't lift?
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Originally posted by Meiscool
If God is omnipotent, how's come he can't make a rock that even he can't lift?
he can, but what would the use be in it? o,o?? that's like saying in one of the zombie movies with the evil virus, that they planned to make an evil virus because they couldn't control it.
hehe, please don't judge me based on that statement, I'm just saying what I think.
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Well think about it. If he is omnipotent, then he can create a rock he can't life, but then he could make himself powerful to lift said rock.
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IF there is a god, I don't think he/she can control everything. He/she needs to give freedom to the world. He/she created free will. He/she created evil to test everyone and everything to see if they're good or evil. But then, I don't believe in god.
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Well, it's like this:
God (The christian god, and the one I believe in, that is...) is omnipotent. So, that means that he knows ans sees everything (and in fact, could control everything if he wanted to). But that doesnīt mean that he controls everything.
Here's how I look at it: God can see what are you going to do, and knows every bit of how you are going to do it, but he chooses not to come in your way. Why? The good ol' free will rule. In order for us to have free will, we need to be able to have our own decissions without external disturbances (And that would be, God).
Of course, He shows us the way, but it's our choice and only our choice to take it.
And about the "rock he can't lift" thing. If God is perfect, then He is above all rules except the ones he create for Himself.
Reason is one of the tools (Maybe the biggest) we have to understand this world. But it isn't the only one, and we can 't use it for everything.
What am I saying here? You can't prove God's existance by reason. You need faith.
And about Christian Metal..... Bart Simpson once said: "All the good bands go with Satan" (Sorry if it's not literal, but I watched it in spanish).
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Originally posted by Red XIII
God can see what are you going to do, and knows every bit of how you are going to do it, but he chooses not to come in your way. Why? The good ol' free will rule. In order for us to have free will, we need to be able to have our own decissions without external disturbances (And that would be, God).
I still don't see why God should punish us (Hell) for something he lets happen. I mean, if he created free will, human beings and everything, and knows everything that can and will happen (that's the perfection part) it seems absurd above anything else to punish humans for living alternative lifestyles to God. If he is completely perfect, he should be nothing less than completely understanding about the choices people make, and so why send them to Hell?
A God willing to damn people for all time for the choices they make is NOT the God you want to worship. If anything he sounds evil himself.
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Originally posted by Meiscool
If God is omnipotent, how's come he can't make a rock that even he can't lift?
That is logical suicide. Its like saying "imagine two brothers, each taller than the other" ;)
Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by Red XIII
God can see what are you going to do, and knows every bit of how you are going to do it, but he chooses not to come in your way. Why? The good ol' free will rule. In order for us to have free will, we need to be able to have our own decissions without external disturbances (And that would be, God).
I still don't see why God should punish us (Hell) for something he lets happen. I mean, if he created free will, human beings and everything, and knows everything that can and will happen (that's the perfection part) it seems absurd above anything else to punish humans for living alternative lifestyles to God. If he is completely perfect, he should be nothing less than completely understanding about the choices people make, and so why send them to Hell?
A God willing to damn people for all time for the choices they make is NOT the God you want to worship. If anything he sounds evil himself.[/B]
Hell wasn't created for man, it was created for the devil and his angels. But man has sinned which makes them unperfect. But God sent his Son to die so that we could be clean in God's eyes. Basicaly God doesn't damn us to hell, we damn our selfs by denying that Jesus died for us. You don't go to hell because you didn't worship God but for not accepting that Jesus died for you and make him your personal savior. Its not really punishing us its more of a trap set by the devil so you don't go to God.
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Originally posted by Spike21
we damn our selfs by denying that Jesus died for us..
Jesus died for the pack of peanuts he stole.
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I don't think anyone will go to Hell for not believing in God or Jesus (I don't agree in everything the church says. I'm what you would call a "Catholic for heritage" or so). Personally, I believe that statements such as "Nobody outside MY religion will be saved" were invented by priests to make people follow them and obey their church.
And about Hell for the evil, excuse me, but if you choose to kill several million people, don't repent, and don't try to make ammendments (Don't ask me what kind of ammendments could be made in that case. I honestly don't know) you don't deserve eternal life. I call that the "Hitler is definitely going to hell" theory.
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Originally posted by Red XIII
I don't think anyone will go to Hell for not believing in God or Jesus (I don't agree in everything the church says. I'm what you would call a "Catholic for heritage" or so). Personally, I believe that statements such as "Nobody outside MY religion will be saved" were invented by priests to make people follow them and obey their church.And about Hell for the evil, excuse me, but if you choose to kill several million people, don't repent, and don't try to make ammendments (Don't ask me what kind of ammendments could be made in that case. I honestly don't know) you don't deserve eternal life. I call that the "Hitler is definitely going to hell" theory.
your right about if you don't repent you go to hell but whats great is that after Christ's death God now sees us through Christ and no longer sees are imperfections or faults he only sees the original perfect person. (Original=before Adam sinned and ate the fruit of good and evil) But because Christ died for us and our sins anything you do can be forgiven but that doesn't mean you should do what ever you want and then ask for forgiveness on your death bed but it does mean no sin is greater than another and all can be forgiven. So we don't know if Hitler is in hell to tell you the truth because if he asked for forgiveness right before he died he would have gone to Heaven. But i don't think he did.
And about other religions the FIRST commandment is "I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, YOU SHALL HAVE no other gods BEFORE ME." That basicly explains its self.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-TyAA90k7gE
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Fact: Hitler died for his sins.
EDIT:
If Adam was perfect, why did he eat the fruit?
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Originally posted by Drace
Fact: Hitler died for his sins.
EDIT:
If Adam was perfect, why did he eat the fruit?
1. Redwallmax is just wrong
2. Didn't Eve eat the fruit first..?
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the only reason Adam/ eve ate the fruit was because temptation was brought into the garden by the snake/the devil the reason they were so quick to eat was because they had never seen or come across evil before. But as for Hitler i was just giving an example of a horrible person having the chance to be forgiven im not saying hes in Heaven.
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Originally posted by redwallmax
the only reason Adam/ eve ate the fruit was because temptation was brought into the garden by the snake/the devil the reason they were so quick to eat was because they had never seen or come across evil before.
If they were perfect, they should've resist temptation.
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Adam and Eve were not perfect. They never said they were. *its a story, by the way*
Also notice its the woman's fault for all the worlds sin. Adam probably didn't let Eve drive then either.
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Originally posted by Drace
Fact: Hitler died for his sins.
Belief: That's right, but he is also going to burn forever for them.
To Redwall: I still don't see why should God not save a good person who didn't believe in him, or believed in him in a different way (For example, a jewish, muslim or hindu (Sorry if mispelt) person). The Catholic church didn't have a declaration on this on the early middle age.
I don't remember well, but I think that the "No-salvation-outside-church" thing was oficially installed in one of those Councils the church held during its early times (When the Pope wasn't so powerful but was only the bishop of Rome), and its objective was to finish europe's convertion to christianity, and to fight the Islam too (Not sure about this last part. I'm going Wikipedia later about this).
Also, man-before-the-fruit wasn't perfect (God is perfect. Man is not and that cannot change), but "inocent". Adam and Eve followed God's law/way until they ate the fruit.
NOTE: I don't take that story literally, but simbolically. I just wanted to make that clear.
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Originally posted by Tomi
Adam and Eve were not perfect. They never said they were. *its a story, by the way*
Also notice its the woman's fault for all the worlds sin. Adam probably didn't let Eve drive then either.
She should have been in the kitchen where she belonged instead of dooming mankind.
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Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Tomi
Adam and Eve were not perfect. They never said they were. *its a story, by the way*
Also notice its the woman's fault for all the worlds sin. Adam probably didn't let Eve drive then either.
She should have been in the kitchen where she belonged instead of dooming mankind.[/B]
XD
Really.
XD
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Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Tomi
Adam and Eve were not perfect. They never said they were. *its a story, by the way*
Also notice its the woman's fault for all the worlds sin. Adam probably didn't let Eve drive then either.
She should have been in the kitchen where she belonged instead of dooming mankind.[/B]
True dat.
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Originally posted by Tomi
Adam and Eve were not perfect. They never said they were. *its a story, by the way*
Also notice its the woman's fault for all the worlds sin. Adam probably didn't let Eve drive then either.
Acually Adam was with Eve when she took the food and he also took some. God cursed the serpent, Eve, and Adam.
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Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Tomi
Adam and Eve were not perfect. They never said they were. *its a story, by the way*
Also notice its the woman's fault for all the worlds sin. Adam probably didn't let Eve drive then either.
She should have been in the kitchen where she belonged instead of dooming mankind.[/B]
I shall make a temple in your name!!!!!
Seriously...
Redwall, if God doesn't save people who don't believe in Him that have acted in a good way, then He's just being selfish. Then he wouldn't be love, as christians say.
It seems that I believe in a different God than yours.
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^
Define good?
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Originally posted by Spike21
^
Define good?
Little Jimmy is a nonbeliever. He thinks Christ did not exist.
He donates millions to charity every year. He also helps the homeless by buying them houses and getting them jobs. Every week he saves cute little animals from the pound and finds them homes.
Probably something on those lines.
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Originally posted by Razor
Originally posted by Spike21
^
Define good?
Little Jimmy is a nonbeliever. He thinks Christ did not exist.
He donates millions to charity every year. He also helps the homeless by buying them houses and getting them jobs. Every week he saves cute little animals from the pound and finds them homes.
Probably something on those lines.[/B]
Thanks Razor ^^ that'd be pretty much it.
Remeber this: most southamerican dictators were CLOSELY related to Church. Those guys killed thousands of people. Are they going to Heaven just because they were Christians or Catholics? Same goes to Inquisition.
Then, you have Mahatma Gandhi, who did great things by using peace, but didn't believe in the God that christians believed in. He's going to Hell because of that?
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You're acts don't get you into heaven, or keep you out of heaven. The only thing that determines that is wheter or not you accepted jesus. Now, it does say in the bible that your acts are what determines the crowns you receive when in heaven, (it's somewhere in there, I don't recall where) crowns are like your rewards for doing good. I think you are rewarded better in heaven for doing good, but that's not what determines if you get there. That's the beauty of eternal forgivness/salvation, if you screw up in life you don't spend eternity paying for it. All you gotta do is make one right decision.
Call it hypocritical all you want, but you can't blame God for wanting a little love, acceptance, and respect from the people's he created. It's one of those, if you don't want him, he doesn't want you things.
Also, never assume that simply because someone is in the church that they are these mega holy beings who speak for God. Just being in the church does not guarantee you will get into heaven.
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I don't like Heaven's system. It seems... crooked.
I think I'm better off choosing one of those other godlike entities.
Also, unless my sources are incorrect, Hitler (I broke Godwin's Law long ago in this thread) was a Christian. Does that mean despite his misdoings, because HE made the right decision, he'll be up there?
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>.>
<.<
Hilter is Jesus.
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I'm pretty sure I explained why Hitler was jesus in an old version of this thread... Or maybe that was a dream??
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
I'm pretty sure I explained why Hitler was jesus in an old version of this thread... Or maybe that was a dream??
No, no, that was me.
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Originally Posted by Glitch
You're acts don't get you into heaven, or keep you out of heaven. The only thing that determines that is wheter or not you accepted jesus. Now, it does say in the bible that your acts are what determines the crowns you receive when in heaven, (it's somewhere in there, I don't recall where) crowns are like your rewards for doing good. I think you are rewarded better in heaven for doing good, but that's not what determines if you get there. That's the beauty of eternal forgivness/salvation, if you screw up in life you don't spend eternity paying for it. All you gotta do is make one right decision.
Call it hypocritical all you want, but you can't blame God for wanting a little love, acceptance, and respect from the people's he created. It's one of those, if you don't want him, he doesn't want you things.
Also, never assume that simply because someone is in the church that they are these mega holy beings who speak for God. Just being in the church does not guarantee you will get into heaven.
I really like the way you said this.
To me it's like this. There really isn't a point system with religion. To me, you shouldn't even care so much about going to heaven as you should just living life. Just live true to yourself and other ghey statements like that.
I'm thinking a "treat others as you would want to be treated" kind of way. You don't neccesarily need religion to live this way, but religion helps.
I believe there is a heaven and I know I'm going to it. I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but I can see how some others would see me as one. At the same time, I'm not really worried about going to heaven or hell, I just live life. If I'm wrong in the afterlife and end up swimming the river Styx, so be it. I just believe in it anyway. I think there are murderers and stuff in heaven, but the ones who are going "Woo Hoo! I'm in heaven! FTW!" aren't there.
As to Hitler being in heaven...he tried to exterminate the Hebrew when he might've been one as well, he threw out the Old Testament and even considered his own writings above the New Testament, and he didn't really die a martyr...He killed himself to evade capture. It's a long shot.
I also wanna say your own religion should be encouraged, but that there is a fine line between encouragement and sticking a gut to their heads, telling them to believe.
Stop sending me links to videos. I sit in a corner and cry at night because I'm on dial-up. :p
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Originally posted by Moosetroop11
I'm pretty sure I explained why Hitler was jesus in an old version of this thread... Or maybe that was a dream??
Meiscool did that.
Don't try to take credit for his awesomes.
edit: beaten
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Meiscool posted it but I'm the one who came up with it. I think I may still have the MSN convo.
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Originally posted by Meiscool
Originally posted by Moosetroop11
I'm pretty sure I explained why Hitler was jesus in an old version of this thread... Or maybe that was a dream??
No, no, that was me.[/B]
ummmm, I must've really missed something when I wasn't reading this forum..... :blue-eye:
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To Razor: There were many persons who were like Hitler (In small scale, of curse) and were also christians at the same time (By the way, I'm not sure if he was christian. But I think he was), but that is the same with many murderers. Some were atheists, some were muslims, some were jewish, etc.
Belonging to a religion does not mean you are a good person.
But all those people who I am talking about didn't follow the basic commandments of such religions (Don't kill. Love your enemies and so on), but the exact oposite (In fact, in some cases, they used religion and faith to fulfill their plans, think about Spain and the Inquisition).
Nobody who acts like that can get to Heaven. If a person kills another "In the name of God" such act is a horrible sin.
Why should God reject a good person, without at least measuring what reasons that person had for not believing?
Giving a person something that that person hasn't earned (Like... an eternal hell for a good guy) isn't fair.
And God is fair.
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Originally posted by Red XIII
Nobody who acts like that can get to Heaven. If a person kills another "In the name of God" such act is a horrible sin.
Aren't all sins equal under God's judgment? So why would mass-genocide result in special treatment when taking candy from a grocery store doesn't?
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Originally posted by Trevlac
Meiscool posted it but I'm the one who came up with it. I think I may still have the MSN convo.
Yeah, you made it MUCH funnier than I could've :p
I think I've still got the convo around here somewhere too. If not, it should be on furious angels. I made up the idea and you wanted to post it on your forum, but I wanted to first... yet you somehow beat me to it, naturally.
EDIT: Oh, found it: http://charas-project.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=17779&forumid=12&catid=6
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Oh yeah, I remember how Sai got all offended because he wants to be Jesus but can't.
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Tell me about it. There's no possible way that she could be your son.
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Fair enough, fair enough. I don't remember too good.
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Originally posted by Red XIII
But all those people who I am talking about didn't follow the basic commandments of such religions (Don't kill. Love your enemies and so on), but the exact oposite (In fact, in some cases, they used religion and faith to fulfill their plans, think about Spain and the Inquisition).
Nobody who acts like that can get to Heaven. If a person kills another "In the name of God" such act is a horrible sin.
There are many, many passages in the bible that advocate killing.
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name some, and i know about the old testament stoning and that stuff.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
There are many, many passages in the bible that advocate killing.
Damn straight.
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Cain and Abel. Kill your brother, it's ALRITE!
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BABY FUK! It's AWWWWWWWWWRITE!
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...I wasn't quite aware I was doing something which could be done wrong.
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Originally posted by Spike21
name some, and i know about the old testament stoning and that stuff.
Mmm, the majority of leviticus and deuteronomy if I recall correctly. And I wouldn't speak too sourly of the old testament if I were you:
Originally said by Jesus Christ, Matthew 5:17-20
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Can someone translate Jesus for me?
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It means that just because jesus is here and has brought the forgivness of God and what not it doesn't mean you can just abandon the old testament. You still have to follow the rules God set down.
Leviticus and Deuteronomy were the most horrible books ever. They were just two books numbering the tribes. All they were were pages upon pages of records and events, and how many kids this family had, etc... There wasn't alot of stoning and what not.
If you want alot of killing and stuff early in the bible you check Joshua. He was a raw dog.
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Why would God ever kill (http://www.thebricktestament.com/king_saul/50070_israelites_killed_by_god/1s06_19b.html) anyone (http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_wilderness/god_kills_24000_israelites/nm25_09.html)?
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Boredom. Duh. I was a God once, I should know.
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Originally posted by Razor
Can someone translate Jesus for me?
Yeshoshua of Nazareth
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It means that just because jesus is here and has brought the forgivness of God and what not it doesn't mean you can just abandon the old testament. You still have to follow the rules God set down.
Yes, I agree. My point is that these laws include things such as stoning disobediant children. Wouldn't that be advocating killing?
Originally posted by Osmose
Why would God ever kill (http://www.thebricktestament.com/king_saul/50070_israelites_killed_by_god/1s06_19b.html) anyone (http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_wilderness/god_kills_24000_israelites/nm25_09.html)?
On a related note, I totally got the brick testament books for my girlfriend for valentines. Most romantic presents ever.
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Originally posted by Red Giant
Yes, I agree. My point is that these laws include things such as stoning disobediant children. Wouldn't that be advocating killing?
Those laws that include stoning is how they were used at that time, God never says anything about stoning.
For example, at the times of Jesus, people used to stone prostitutes and sick people, "because it is what God demands...", but Jesus defended a prostitue during a stoning, Maria Magdalena.
Still, I'm not a follower of the "Holy Books", I believe that all of that could have been written by someone who seeked something form people. Besides the change in God's attitude between the Old and the New Testament is quite significant:
In the Old Testament, there's fire rains, people dying because of that God is mad (because He gets mad at the Old Book), etcetera.
In the New Testament, God only speaks to Jesus, his son, and is farly more benevolent... that is quite odd...
My view of God (which resides in folosophy) differs a lot from the Old Testament, that's why I don't pay too much attention to the Book, only to the Laws (the ones written in the Tables)
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magdalene was a prostitute? 0_o
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Originally posted by Dominicy
magdalene was a prostitute? 0_o
Mary Magdalene? Yeah she was, Jesus saved her from stoning.
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Originally posted by Kinslayer
In the Old Testament, there's fire rains, people dying because of that God is mad (because He gets mad at the Old Book), etcetera.
In the New Testament, God only speaks to Jesus, his son, and is farly more benevolent... that is quite odd..
Because the old testament is written for jews, and the new testament is written for good people?
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Originally posted by MrMister
Originally posted by Kinslayer
In the Old Testament, there's fire rains, people dying because of that God is mad (because He gets mad at the Old Book), etcetera.
In the New Testament, God only speaks to Jesus, his son, and is farly more benevolent... that is quite odd..
Because the old testament is written for jews, and the new testament is written for good people?[/B]
xD! You...
Nah I didn't mean that, that's how it is, just read the Bible. Besides, the christian religion has to pay attention to the Old Testament... supposedly.
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What's to wonder? The people in charge wrote the new testament when they wanted to herd the people in a new direction. The old testament was getting outdated and people didn't want to fear anymore, they wanted to hope.