Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Red Giant on February 09, 2009, 02:52:01 AM
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Go.
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Let people believe what they want, as long as they don't go hurting others as a result of it.
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Let people believe what they want, as long as they don't go hurting others as a result of it.
So is a belief that entails harming others is inherently less valid than one that does not?
What is hurt? If I hurt someone on earth to save them from hell, is that not good?
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Oh I don't care about the religion themselves since nobody can prove a damn thing, why worry about it?
Just don't kill the next guy and everything is fine.
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I second that notion
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BUT what if I believe that, say, if I don't cut off my kid's arm, he'll go to hell? Is that fine?! IS IT?!
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May I ask why you brought this topic into being?
While I think of a way to phrase my thoughts?
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May I ask why you brought this topic into being?
While I think of a way to phrase my thoughts?
Why not?
I ain't gotta explain myself to nobody
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Okay: Slightly
complex and hypocritical beliefs follow
I believe that if something does not make logical sense, then it's crap, and I am not going to take it seriously
Zealots can go to hell, for all I care
I do not believe in a (singular!) higher power...I simply don't think that one being, no matter how high and mighty It is, can rule over all of existence...there's probably more than one god. However, I also don't believe that existence is just a coincidence
If your belief tells you that you have to do something that you disagree with, yet you do it anyway, your an idiot
Morality is a human invention, but should be followed anyways
I believe that if there is a god, then he probably doesn't want you worshiping and sacrificing in his name
After I think more through, I'm gonna add more
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Believe what you will, but do it for the teachings, not the history lesson. All legitimate religions preach moral rights, like not causing harm to others and helping your fellow man. These are the only parts that are consistently endorsed and the only parts that are always true. If you're in it for the history, or for the promise of what's to come (virgins, reincarnation, paradise after death), then you're not doing it right. Since there's no way to prove what's right after life, then do what we know is right already.
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Oh hell, everyone else is taking it seriously. Why not?
MONOLOGUE GO-GO! :D
In my earlier years here, back when these sorts of topics were rampant, I'd usually mention being a Christian and going on my way, not exactly wanting to see the wholly ugly results to saying that - particularly in the way I had so poorly worded the statement. Those were my earlier years, though, I've changed alot and, to some extent and would say I can trust the vastest majority of the members to hear me out if I take care this time around to be a bit more careful with my words.
I'm still a Christian - whether or not I can say "still" I'm hardly even sure. I was off the mark for the last who-the-hell can say amount of time. I was force-fed what I heard from bigoted internet preachers, and when they were through injecting me with their hate-bile I'd come back, lapping at their feet for more. Since that time I've bothered to read the Texts that are alegedly my own Holy Book, and duly did what I could adjusting myself. The more I realized how very wrong I was all along, the more and more I hated myself. A crisis of faith later, and I've loosely recovered.
My question, however, is: Even if what I believe isn't true, what harm has it done? And I'm speaking what Jesus spoke himself, mind you - I'm not afraid to admit that what wars weren't caused by gross misuse and misinterpretation of Scripture were justified by it, almost universally. I've been made into a pacifist, both physically and, to some measure mentally. I've learned to look past my own limitations for forgiveness and see that people the people I fought so often against were just as human as I was. And likely most importantly to those of you, an atheist and agnostic majority, fresh with the imprints of Bible-bashing from all angles, I've learned to keep my beliefs where they belong.
I used to be afraid of admitting that I masturbated in the past - rest assured I'm still afraid of admitting to a few of my... bizarre fetishes, to put it mildly. It was an on-again-off-again relationship, violating myself. Hell, I remember lecturing myself in how I need to cut the addiction it had become - some once or twice a week. Rest assured, a visit to 4Chan some few years later straightened my perspective on just how supposedly addicted I was. I can't say when I finally stopped - not long after I started, I'm sure of that much. The thought only recently occured to me after sifting through threads on /b/ with Fredrik (Red Fox).
They were discussing religion, as they so often do. The usual idiotic arguments of both sides were brought to light. "You don't really believe what you say." Hitler was a Christian, Stalin was an atheist, Stalin didn't kill in the name of atheism - hell, I even saw "Stalin was an atheist, but the Russians were Christians" used as evidence of religion being evil - I won't say it's not. All of that rot. Then, unfortunately briefly someone obviously dubbed Anonymous posted, stating that he was a Christian, but the collective beliefs of the religion were corrupted and twisted into something they weren't before. Amongst what he was supposedly correcting was that masturbating was not a sin. While I personally found alot more evidence that it WAS a sin - lust is adultery in your mind and all that - it did get me to thinking: Even if it wasn't a sin, was it an "artificial sin" for lack of a better word? If I had convinced myself that it was a transgression of God's law to listen to Metallic music, for example (an irritatingly contriversial subject.) and I did any way, what was I doing, if not proving my own disobedience? My conclusion is this: whether or not masturbation in and of itself is a sin, I had convinced myself that it was. Literally committing an imaginary sin, but with the same consequence.
Then there's the gigantic split. "Is evolution true?" I doubt I have to detail that any further. Who the hell gives a damn if it is or isn't?! Advances in the study of evolution - 'theory' or no - is saving ten-fold the lives Creation has. What does it matter if it's true or not? It's doing good for society. Leave the evolutionists to their work, and pull your head out of your *** - there are more important matters than "DID I REALLY COME FROM A MONKEY!?". Damn!
I don't know what's waiting after death - if anything. I suppose all I can do for now is cross my fingers, hold on tight, and - since I love that series that shall go on nameless so damn much, I'll say it - grab my crucifix.
Just a few things I wanted to tell somebody and everybody. Whether or not it even bears a semblance of what we were originally talking about, I don't even remember any more. Enjoy.
Right, hope you're happy, by the way. The effort I put into writing this could have been used adding two more pages to my book. Bastards. ;_;
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That's not what I said
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That's not what I said
Bahahahahaha
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What?
It isn't
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I honestly cant see how people believe all this, but it doesnt harm me, so let them believe.
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Boom Atheist.
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http://skipease.whitepages.com/search/Find_Person?firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=Jesus&name=Christ&city_zip=&state_id=
That's all.
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http://skipease.whitepages.com/search/Find_Person?firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=Jesus&name=Christ&city_zip=&state_id=
That's all.
But which one is the real one? <.<
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Hmmm....
http://skipease.whitepages.com/search/FindPerson?extra_listing=mixed&form_mode=opt_b&post_back=1&firstname_begins_with=1&firstname=True&name=Christ&street=&city_zip=&state_id=&localtime=survey
ACK!
Just when I think I had found the solution...
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Oh it's all so simple.
There is one almighty God.
God created the world in a way that modern scientists have yet to prove.
But the fact that they can't see it only proves their stupidity.
Science is a religion created to deceive the general public into believing that there is no God.
God decides over life and death.
You have no own will in life. You were created for a reason and your destiny is doing whatever the almighty God shaped you to do. You denying that and trying to do something else will only make you do as destined since God made you deny destiny.
Murderers, Policemen, judges and animal extermination workers are all opposing God as they think that they have the right to bring death to other people.
Nurses, Vets and doctors are opposing God as well since they think that they have the right to bring life to other people.
Death and life is pre-destined and those people are creating an unbalance in the world which ultimately only will bring the end of the world.
God's power over the people does not reach beyond the creation. God is a creator, not a destroyer.
God sees his work as perfect and will therefore NOT change anything even if you pray.
We must all work together and even the world so that our planet will keep on living.
Living as good as we are will bring too many people to life at once.
With too many people comes too many needs.
With too many needs comes more space.
With more space comes less nature.
With less nature comes doom.
The end is near. Make your time.
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To righten the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise, what a wonderful world such would be.
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Suuuure. You people all come with meaningful posts that people don't die under the weight of. Saying all this... relevant crap.
*Stares questioningly at my own post for another hour or so*
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I'm not gonna touch this topic with a 40-feet pole.
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I have this, if you change your mind.
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Then there's the gigantic split. "Is evolution true?" I doubt I have to detail that any further. Who the hell gives a damn if it is or isn't?! Advances in the study of evolution - 'theory' or no - is saving ten-fold the lives Creation has. What does it matter if it's true or not? It's doing good for society. Leave the evolutionists to their work, and pull your head out of your *** - there are more important matters than "DID I REALLY COME FROM A MONKEY!?". Damn!
Wow. I am really going to give you originality points for that one; I've never heard someone take quite that approach. Very interesting.
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I call it "Not dwelling on trivial bullshit". Catchy, isn't it? What about yourself then, Red? :P
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Purple mage's wall of text up there
[spoiler]Oh it's all so simple.
There is one almighty God.
God created the world in a way that modern scientists have yet to prove.
But the fact that they can't see it only proves their stupidity.
Science is a religion created to deceive the general public into believing that there is no God.
God decides over life and death.
You have no own will in life. You were created for a reason and your destiny is doing whatever the almighty God shaped you to do. You denying that and trying to do something else will only make you do as destined since God made you deny destiny.
Murderers, Policemen, judges and animal extermination workers are all opposing God as they think that they have the right to bring death to other people.
Nurses, Vets and doctors are opposing God as well since they think that they have the right to bring life to other people.
Death and life is pre-destined and those people are creating an unbalance in the world which ultimately only will bring the end of the world.
God's power over the people does not reach beyond the creation. God is a creator, not a destroyer.
God sees his work as perfect and will therefore NOT change anything even if you pray.
We must all work together and even the world so that our planet will keep on living.
Living as good as we are will bring too many people to life at once.
With too many people comes too many needs.
With too many needs comes more space.
With more space comes less nature.
With less nature comes doom.
The end is near. Make your time.[/spoiler]
I assume this was a joke post, but I still need to question how "you have no own will in life" and "You denying that and trying to do something else will only make you do as destined since God made you deny destiny" somehow exist in the same paragraph as "Murderers, Policemen, judges and animal extermination workers are all opposing God as they think that they have the right to bring death to other people" without applying the same logic.
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I call it "Not dwelling on trivial bullshit". Catchy, isn't it?
I find it interesting because I've never heard someone who both doesn't necessarily believe in evolution and yet still realises the good it has done society. One, the other or neither but never that.
I assume this was a joke post, but I still need to question how "you have no own will in life" and "You denying that and trying to do something else will only make you do as destined since God made you deny destiny" somehow exist in the same paragraph as "Murderers, Policemen, judges and animal extermination workers are all opposing God as they think that they have the right to bring death to other people" without applying the same logic.
LoL I read his post too quickly and I assumed that's what he was doing.
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Oh boy oh boy it's Epicurus time.
To paraphrase the mighty Epicurus:
"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" ~ Epicurus
Epicurus is awesome.
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Dominicy... As unique as your point is, it doesn't really make sense. Science only works if it's true. Someone can only use the fact that evolution is happening to help humanity if evolution is really happening, if you know what I mean. To say that whether or not evolution is fact is pointless sounds a bit like you're avoiding admitting that you were wrong. No offense.
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Oh boy oh boy it's Epicurus time.
To paraphrase the mighty Epicurus:
"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" ~ Epicurus
Epicurus is awesome.
The idea of God defies logic. Logic traps can't work on him.
Like asking if he can dig a trench so long that even he can't leap over it.
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The idea of God defies logic. Logic traps can't work on him.
Like asking if he can dig a trench so long that even he can't leap over it.
Well, can He?
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The idea of God defies logic.
I would have left it there.
EDIT: But then I would remember;
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/1546690482_de4b88be62.jpg?v=0)
"Atheists are often very grumpy and bitter and WILL lash out at children"
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Wow
All I have to say about that
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I'm an atheist and I attack children all the time. Their blessed minds are always so delicious to fill with my evil thoughts.
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2052/1546690482_de4b88be62.jpg?v=0)
I can't believe this is true.
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I can't believe this is true.
It's true. I remember there being a website featuring this, but I don't know the link. Christians are so bad at living peacefully with people of other or no believes. Meh, guess all religions are like that. Now us atheist, we only attack people who attack us. People should leave each others belives alone.
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It's true. I remember there being a website featuring this, but I don't know the link. Christians are so bad at living peacefully with people of other or no believes. Meh, guess all religions are like that. Now us atheist, we only attack people who attack us. People should leave each others belives alone.
Actually, there's a flip side to that comment of mine. I also meant that, while it's hard to believe that something like that could be pushed out and forced down other peoples' throats, I also suggested that some of the points are true in a number of atheists.
I've found most atheists to be abrasive, elitist, and just as willing to push their beliefs on others. This, of course, isn't universal, but I experience these types more than others.
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It's true. I remember there being a website featuring this, but I don't know the link. Christians are so bad at living peacefully with people of other or no believes. Meh, guess all religions are like that. Now us atheist, we only attack people who attack us. People should leave each others belives alone.
Actually...
[spoiler]The whole site was a parody of those kinds of sites. Some Christian site actually thought it was legitimate and linked to it though, so that's funny.
SORRY TO RUIN IT FOR YOU.[/spoiler]
Mr Gruff will always be my idol. Bollocks to your church, I'M SLEEPING IN.
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Same here
Isn't Sunday technically for resting anyways?
Not really sure how you Christians think...but that's what I thought the original idea was
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As humans were developing, they were beginning to understand the world around them. Rain makes crops grow. Cold makes them die.
But what makes the rain come? Why does it get cold?
Humans, as a species, are a naturally curious race. We're always probing deeper into the origin and mechanics of the universe we live in. So, our ancestors began figuring out ways to explain the world around them.
However, humans (as a race) are also pretty narcissistic. We're the top species on the planet, and for good reason: we've mastered tools. So, maybe there were other people using bigger tools to make it rain or change the season.
Eventually, this thought evolved into our modern notion of "gods". The men in the sky got bigger, and their tools got more powerful (to the point of not even being physical tools, more like 'magic'). Because humans were scattered across the world, each group of people developed different "gods" that served the same fundamental purpose.
But what happens when two groups of humans with different beliefs meet? Again, humans are a naturally narcissistic race, and we (as a species, not necessarily as individuals) tend to believe that we're greater than everything else. Thus, our gods are better than their gods.
In addition, humans are also pretty violent - this comes as a natural result of evolution. Back in the day, you had to kill or be killed. Combined with our narcissism, the result is what we've witnessed throughout history - people killing each other over their religion.
There is another aspect to this, though. In many cases, even the most bizarre myths tend to have an element of truth in them. Look at so-called "paranormal" or "supernatural" phenomena, such as ghosts, psychic powers, etc. There have been countless reports of these throughout history, and it's not a stretch to think that these kinds of phenomena may have influenced our early ancestors. In the same breath, pretty much every culture on Earth has a creation myth involving some sort of god or gods - using the above example, maybe there is some sort of higher power that created or at least guided us.
So, the question is: what to believe? There is no true right or wrong answer to this question. Just believe what you want.
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who's to say that God isn't logical? A supreme being that determines the outcome of all? Does God even have a tangible physical form? Everything we do is guided by unbreakable "laws;" if you jump off a building, you are ALWAYS going to hit the ground. There is ZERO chance of spontaneously falling up. The same rule applys to "God;" if you jump off a building and God wills you to fall down, then you aren't going to fall up. Why can't all of these laws and facts we establish BE God? Not as religion sees it, but simply another form of God; an unbreakable entity or entities that govern how we live.
God and Science are the same, just two different interpretations of the same thing.
As for creation versus evolution; meh, who cares? Whether we spontaneously appeared or grew from monkeys, we'll all die and rot in the ground, and as for after that, unless someone can find a way to bring the dead back to life, that is IMPOSSBLE to know, so stop debating it! If you're so determined to find out, then just kill yourself and then you'll know.
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God and Science are the same, just two different interpretations of the same thing.
Then what good is he?
edit: What I mean is, what good is praying at him if he's just science? We don't need to pray to science, it just.. is..
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Actually...
Poe's Law strikes again
At least this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4yBvvGi_2A) is still real.
just kill yourself and then you'll know.
Well, not if there's no afterlife.
The view of God as being literally the laws of the universe is known as Pantheism. Which, to be honest, is just the pussy's alternative to Atheism. The Laws of the universe aren't conscious, they don't love you and they don't answer prayers; the concepts are very distinct.
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One of my best friends is christian. He keeps tellling us we will go to hell for not believing.
lol
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About creation vs evolution: I'd rather believe we all come from different monkey tribes than of the incest childs of Adam and Eve's children.
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Dominicy... As unique as your point is, it doesn't really make sense. Science only works if it's true. Someone can only use the fact that evolution is happening to help humanity if evolution is really happening, if you know what I mean. To say that whether or not evolution is fact is pointless sounds a bit like you're avoiding admitting that you were wrong. No offense.
I wouldn't exactly say that. Maybe I didn't explain that much quite as clearly as I would have liked. I'm not afraid to admit that I am - or was, rather - wrong because I don't think I am wrong. I don't know if one or the other is true, or which, for that matter, and it hardly matters to me. I just know for a fact that even as a so-called theory, Evolution has done ALOT more good in a physical sense of the word than Creation has.
That or I did explain it accurately and I AM afraid of being wrong ;P
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I don't know if everyone was aware of this, it was in the news a while back, but some atheist campaign-or-other created these extremely controversial bus banners in the UK;
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/05/article-1136162-034EB62B000005DC-848_468x313_popup.jpg)
Well now, the Christians have COUNTER-ATTACKED;
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/05/article-1136162-0350321A000005DC-240_468x269_popup.jpg)
I can see this ending in tears.
Also; Apparantely now, Dawkins gets AWL THE BITCHEZ
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I hate that smug look on his face whenever Dawkins does ANYTHING. Does he EVER have any expression, other than that creepy ear-to-ear smile?
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Lol at the busses.
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I hate that smug look on his face whenever Dawkins does ANYTHING. Does he EVER have any expression, other than that creepy ear-to-ear smile?
I would wear that expression at all times if I GOT AWL THE BITCHEZ