Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: arcaine91 on February 15, 2009, 09:20:42 PM
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For those of you who don't know (read: everyone) I am a major Chrono fan.
This is basically a thread for other Chrono fans to preach about the awesomeness of Chrono Trigger. You can preach about the awesomeness of Chrono Cross too, but just know that it's awesomeness can't match the awesomeness of Chrono Trigger.
I said awesomeness four times in this post. Make that five. wOOt.
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Never played it, don't care.
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The vote for banishing Drace from the RPG player's community is now open.
I vote AYE
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Haven't finished it yet
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The vote for banishing Drace from the RPG player's community is now open.
I vote AYE
=P Really though, I've not played all too many RPGs. On the top of my head:
Several Final Fantasies
LOTR: The Third Age
KOTOR 1 + 2
Baldur's Gate
Jagged Alliance 2
Lost Odyssey
World of Warcraft
That's about it.
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KOTOR 1 + 2
you've just alleviated a degree of the hostility i was feeling.
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KOTOR's kickass, dude
BIOWare rocks
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KOTOR's kickass, dude
BIOWare rocks
so true.
KOTOR and Jade Empire own.
The only next-gen rpg ive played that even comes close to those is Fallout 3, and it's a VERY close game.
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The DS remake of Chrono Trigger was a bit disappointing, in the fact that they didn't redo the graphics, and the Lost Sanctum was just one giant fetch-quest for items that weren't even that great.
But the new secret ending was pretty cool, I guess. If you're curious, Sai, I'll put it in spoiler tags:
[SPOILER]You have to beat the three different versions of the Dimensional Vortices (which are new dungeons exclusive to the DS version). Afterwards, you check the bucket at the End of Time and go to "Time's Eclipse", where you fight the Dream Devourer - a red recolor of Lavos with Schala floating above it. Once you do a certain amount of damage, Magus shows up, and Schala tells him that he won't be able to defeat Lavos with any sort of strength - so Magus "fades into the darkness" or something and reappears in some forest. It'd probably make sense if I played Chrono Cross.[/SPOILER]
Wow, that sounds like one of those so-called methods to revive Aeris in FF7.
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I've seen it Warxe, and yeah, it makes considerably more sense if you've played Cross.
I approve of the DS remake on general good principle that, if SE makes enough money off Chrono remakes, the possibility of a third game may become a reality.
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*reads Warxe's spoiler*
Wait, this all is leading to Magus is Lynx. Is that the case?
never finished Cross either but got up to CD2
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I approve of the DS remake on general good principle that, if SE makes enough money off Chrono remakes, the possibility of a third game may become a reality.
This. If they aren't developing the third Chrono game now, those guys at SE are idiots - sure, they'll probably make a lot of money off of FFXIII and DQIX, but I would guarantee that at least 90% of people who would buy those games would also buy Chrono Break.
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*reads Warxe's spoiler*
Wait, this all is leading to Magus is Lynx. Is that the case?
never finished Cross either but got up to CD2
Magus was supposed to be Guile, a floating magician guy. The developers said that they didn't have enough time or energy to devote to the Magus subplots to make it work so they made Guile just a random throwaway character. I'm calling BS on this one, since Magus/Guile should have been a major plot point from day one considering the fact the rest of the game revolves around Schala, but whatcha gunna do. I'm vaguely comforted by the fact that Serge and Kid eventually meeting up and getting married is actual canon.
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Magus was supposed to be Guile, a floating magician guy. The developers said that they didn't have enough time or energy to devote to the Magus subplots to make it work so they made Guile just a random throwaway character. I'm calling BS on this one, since Magus/Guile should have been a major plot point from day one considering the fact the rest of the game revolves around Schala, but whatcha gunna do. I'm vaguely comforted by the fact that Serge and Kid eventually meeting up and getting married is actual canon.
Actually, as I recall...
[spoiler]Serge's Dad was Lynx.[/spoiler]
As for Magus/Guile...
[spoiler]There is no link, although now that SaiKar brought it up, things are interesting. As I see it, Guile was based off of a character from Radical Dreamers, a Crono Trigger spin-off. It could be called an early form of CC, as the main characters were Serge, Kidd, and Guile, and it took place in the Snakebone Conservatory (Viper Manor in the U.S.). Also, as I recall, Guile's name in Japanese was 'Alf', after Magus' cat, Alfador. No news if Guile has to do with the flat-headed Street Fighter from the U.S., though.[/spoiler]
Now, Sprigg? I'm curious about her. Is she related to Ozzie and co.?
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All your Chrono Cross talk befuddles me to no end, but I am wholeheartedly a lover of Chrono Trigger and wholeheartedly not a fan of the decision of Squenix to squash Chrono Resurrection under their evil corporate boots while
remak porting the damn thing onto DS. Shove your bonus content up your diseased whorifices.
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[SPOILER]Yeah, Guile was supposedly based off of Magil. But as I recall, Magil was eventually revealed to be Magus in Radical Dreamers (just as Kid was revealed to be Schala). I'm not 100% sure on that though.[/SPOILER]
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Chrono Trigger had some pretty awesome music. "Time Circuits" will most likely always be my favorite video game bgm.
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[SPOILER]Yeah, Guile was supposedly based off of Magil. But as I recall, Magil was eventually revealed to be Magus in Radical Dreamers (just as Kid was revealed to be Schala). I'm not 100% sure on that though.[/SPOILER]
Hmm....
Either way, I'm not too sure that Radical Dreamers should be thought of as part of Crono Cross (it was only a spiritual predecessor, right?). But, you do raise some interesting food-for-thought...
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Quoted from the Chrono Compendium (http://www.chronocompendium.com/):
[SPOILER]Magus is Magil in Radical Dreamers, somehow having discovered Schala's reincarnation in Kid and having made his way to the modern era. He adopted a human appearance, charming and mysterious personality, and a refined air and carriage. Disguised as Magil, he saved Kid from her first attempt at revenge for Lucca's death; afterwards, he accompanied Kid on her thievery missions. Serge often wrote of his seriousness and immense power and described his face as stunningly handsome in one scenario. Magil retained a quiet and collected personality that, coupled with his uncanny ability to move in and out of shadows, made him an enigma. When he spoke, his words were direct, focused, and cultured, though he was known to smile or make jokes on extremely rare occasions. During Le Trésor Interdit, he wore a mask and blue cape and was responsible for the group's safety from enemies, as he alone had a mastery of magic (a Goblin was even shocked to see a human with such magical prowess). At the final battle, he was held back by Lynx and unable to protect Kid until she used the Chrono Trigger. After time returned to normal, Magil quickly escaped with Kid, who now knew of her status as the former Schala.
While Magus's identity as Magil is never stated outright in the game, the plot, several clues, and a direct statement by Chrono series writer Masato Kato confirm this. [/SPOILER]
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of course, the thing you have to think about as far as a third game goes is that Chrono Trigger was epic. They tried for a sequel with Chrono Cross, and though that was a good game, it PALED in comparison to Trigger. The big issue is that if they try to make a third game, it had best at least come close to the awesomeness of Trigger. Remember how disappointed fans were with Cross? If that happens with the third game, then the Chrono series will truly be dead. And THAT is a scary thought.
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of course, the thing you have to think about as far as a third game goes is that Chrono Trigger was epic. They tried for a sequel with Chrono Cross, and though that was a good game, it PALED in comparison to Trigger. The big issue is that if they try to make a third game, it had best at least come close to the awesomeness of Trigger. Remember how disappointed fans were with Cross? If that happens with the third game, then the Chrono series will truly be dead. And THAT is a scary thought.
If they did it once, they can do it again. But they've all got money on their minds instead of awesome intuitive story writing.
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Chrono Trigger had some pretty awesome music. "Time Circuits" will most likely always be my favorite video game bgm.
Agreed. Time Circuits until the end.
of course, the thing you have to think about as far as a third game goes is that Chrono Trigger was epic. They tried for a sequel with Chrono Cross, and though that was a good game, it PALED in comparison to Trigger. The big issue is that if they try to make a third game, it had best at least come close to the awesomeness of Trigger. Remember how disappointed fans were with Cross? If that happens with the third game, then the Chrono series will truly be dead. And THAT is a scary thought.
Well,
[spoiler]Chrono Cross wasn't THAT bad of a game, plot-wise. It added a lot of very interesting developments to the Chrono world. Like how Lavos was the protector of humanity against the "Entity"/Gaia spirit of the planet itself that chose the reptites and their more natural existance as the rulers of the world. And how that Trigger's plot was largely orchistrated by the Entity to kill Lavos so that the reptites and their Dragon God could reclaim the world. And how Lynx was actually trying to protect both humanity and the timestream by reactivating the FATE computer that was ensuring humanity had a successful future without wacky paradoxes like the Dead Sea. Honestly I wish they focused more on that sort of thing and less about weird characters and meaningless subplots. Sigh.[/spoiler]
You're all probably like "... what? I never picked up any of that stuff in Cross" right now. If I have to make one major complaint about Cross, it's how SO FREAKING MUCH of the plot is based on interpritation and attention to detail. The only time they throw a lot of plot stuff at you is on the beach right at the end, and even understanding all that is a lot dependant on how many little vague tidbits you picked up on earlier.
One of these days I'm going to do a lot of research and make a full Trigger / Cross plot summary, if only so I can read it myself when I forget a few things. One of these days.
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I never played Chrono cross but always meant to, so this DS remake is super convenient for me, and the fact that they've kept the graphics the same is really good news.
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Holy crap, Sai. That's completely awesome. With that in mind, the plot summary I read for Cross makes a billion times more sense.
As for a plot for Chrono Break, here's some ideas (again from the Chrono Compendium):
* Time travel
* Dimensional travel
* Space travel
* Any combination of the above
* "Lavoids"
* The unspeakable things that prey on "Lavoids"
* The pristine future never seen directly
* Shadowy figures seeking to cleanse the timestream any trace of Lavos's kind, including humanity
* Where is Magus and/or Schala
* What happened in the Fall of Guardia
* What happened to the Reptite Dimension
* Time cops upset over all the time disturbances on earth
* Any or all of the above... FROM SPACE!!!!!
Personally, I couldn't really come up with a plot for Chrono Break, but it should definitely have Lavos (or another of its species) as the major antagonist, and it should also explain the origin of the Lavoids.
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Honestly, if they made a new Chrono Trigger game, I would just rather have it not relate to the previous games at all. Or if it does, make is small and simple... I remember hearing something about Lavos destroying other planets before landing on earth, so having an entirely different planet for the game's stage would make an easy plot to go off of.
They could also do a Dark Cloud plot rip-off, where someone is going back in time and killing off people's origins, and you've got to stop that person. Admittedly, it's a hell of a weak plot, but it still managed to keep me engrossed in Dark Cloud 2.
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Personally, I couldn't really come up with a plot for Chrono Break, but it should definitely have Lavos (or another of its species) as the major antagonist, and it should also explain the origin of the Lavoids.
I second that--we don't know if Lavos is the first of it's kind...there have to me more out there, destroying worlds like nobody's business...
Personally, I find Lavos to be a terrifying boss. His scream, his goal, his modus operandi....It's simply not human. When you're facing Setzer or someone similar...it's a guy. It's just human rivalry. When you're up against Lavos...you're not fighting for 'everyone'--you're fighting for yourself, too.
At least, that's how I see it.
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Honestly, if they made a new Chrono Trigger game, I would just rather have it not relate to the previous games at all. Or if it does, make is small and simple... I remember hearing something about Lavos destroying other planets before landing on earth, so having an entirely different planet for the game's stage would make an easy plot to go off of.
Well, that's the thing. As far as canon goes, we don't know much about where Lavos came from, or even if it's part of a larger species. If it were, that'd make an easy plot for Chrono Break - some other planet has a Lavos-like being invade it, the heroes use time travel to take it down, etc. But that'd just be a rehash of Trigger, so they should definitely go in-depth with Lavos' origin - maybe the planet that it crashes on is high-tech, so they're able to find where it came from by studying its trajectory. So they find the birthing ground of Lavos - either the planet it evolved on (if the Lavoid species occurred naturally) or the civilization that created it (if Lavos was genetically engineered to be the ultimate life-form).
Personally, I find Lavos to be a terrifying boss. His scream, his goal, his modus operandi....It's simply not human. When you're facing Setzer or someone similar...it's a guy. It's just human rivalry. When you're up against Lavos...you're not fighting for 'everyone'--you're fighting for yourself, too.
I totally agree with this. In most RPGs, you're fighting a human(oid), or in some cases, a god-like being. But Lavos... is more of a force of nature. It controls evolution in order to evolve itself, so in a sense, it's "natural selection" personified. If you put in those terms, it's a force greater than most of the final bosses of other RPGs combined.
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I second that--we don't know if Lavos is the first of it's kind...there have to me more out there, destroying worlds like nobody's business...
Personally, I find Lavos to be a terrifying boss. His scream, his goal, his modus operandi....It's simply not human. When you're facing Setzer or someone similar...it's a guy. It's just human rivalry. When you're up against Lavos...you're not fighting for 'everyone'--you're fighting for yourself, too.
Don't know about first, but Lavos is definately not the only one of his kind. In the future on Death Peak while doing the whole Chrono revive quest, you encounter a bunch of Lavos Spawns. Apparently after harvesting the planets energy he spawned his young that would chew at the remains before taking to space themselves. Ghastly.
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Sai, what would you like to see in a Chrono sequel? You seem to know the storyline the best.
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Some sort of solid resolution between Magus / Schala and Kid / Serge. Both games ended on kind of a "Ill find you, some day" note, so it'd be nice to actually do it.
That's not much of a main plot though.
Of the list of stuff you posted, "Shadowy figures seeking to cleanse the timestream any trace of Lavos's kind, including humanity" seems like one of the better ideas. Clearly they'll have to expand the scope of the game a bit if they make a third game. Time and dimension travel has been done and I'm not really feeling space exploration is right for the series. I don't know. If I thought about it more maybe I could think of something better, but right now I got nothin'.
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An idea... but a cool concept of a sequel would be to focus on the origin of Lavos. Like... say some society was under attack by a greater species, so you're sent out to obtain samples of these stronger species and create your own to fight them with. The created effect is Lavos, who in the end was to powerful to control, so you put him into a sleep state and blasted him into space once you were done with him.
Of course, I'm just quickly jotting my ideas down. This is obviously full of holes and could also be greatly expanded on.
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Whoa, and I thought I knew a lot about the whole Chrono plotline. That thing you mentioned about the Gaia spirit was completely unbeknown to me Sai, thanks for that, it really does make sense of a lot of stuff.
<3 CT and CC
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Chrono Trigger is so much better than Crono Cross that it -hurts.-
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i found this old thing.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/244675 (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/244675)
It's old as dirt and insanely hard, but it offers a nice "what if?" scenario.
It also completely spits on Chrono Cross.
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Played it for about 5 minutes. After the 6th random battle trying to cross the overworld for the first time, I completely lost interest. Was pretty crappy anyway until that point.