Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: zuhane on September 27, 2009, 04:09:35 PM

Title: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on September 27, 2009, 04:09:35 PM
I've been playing a lot of RPGs and I get bored of some, get glued to others. I've compiled a list
of what I like to see in an RPG. Please add your own, as I want to know what makes you people tick!

1. Music. An engaging soundtrack is a must in my opinion. A beautiful song can make you cry without
anything even happening.

2. Atmosphere. It's rare for me to favourite a game just because of its atmosphere, but that's probably
why I love FFX so much.

3. Extreme involvement. I like to know precisely what each stat does, why it does it, the formulas behind
attacks etc. I hate games with little description.

4. Character individuality. It's always cool to have a very exclusive character that you've worked hard to make.
Disgaea and Pokemon allow lots of individuality.

5. Exciting characters. I DESPISE games with a "I must try my hardest!" protagonist with a sword (excluding FFX).
I like the characters tto have unique relationships, disagreements and hangups!
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: X_marks_the_ed on September 27, 2009, 06:02:50 PM
1 - Difference. I try to avoid Sword-and-shield RPGs nowadays.

2 - Interesting Battle system. Impress me with something. Anyone can just make a simple menu-based one, if one is used, it should have something that makes it unique to others, i.e. Earthbound's rolling HP meter or SMRPG's action commands.

3 - Not every character needs to crap excellence. Make the characters lovable and not just as epic as the last one. I found FFVIII entertaining because I liked Zell's personality, for instance, and Seifer (or whatever)'s trying-to-be badass blade holding stance just annoyed me and made me want to avoid the battles with him.

4, and my most important requirement - I MUST KNOW WHAT TO DO! I cannot tell you how easily I get lost in RPGs because I miss that one single dialog that tells me where to go to next. I've tried Breath of Fire, and a mere twenty minutes into the game, I'm already clueless. I'm running around killing blobs in the main map. PM:TTYD easily solved this problem with a fortune teller charging a mere 5 coins for a hint on your next objective.

5 - Movesets - I should not have to spam a move several times to get by. God of War: Chains of Olympus had this problem. I think I had only maybe two ways to fight, and they both got annoying very fast. That is, if you can consider the game an RPG. I haven't decided on that factor. Earthbound also had this problem, too, but it had many alternatives. Paula's PSI Freeze worked just as well as Ness' PSI Rockin', but at least I could swap the two and they'd work just as well as the other.

I could go on, really, but I don't really care to dig out others I've played for examples.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on September 27, 2009, 06:27:56 PM
I can't agree with you both more. Yeah, Jessica's chest definitely added a few playing hours to the
game. I felt DQ had so much potential and had a beautiful atmosphere... just VERY boring.

PM:TTYD is one of the finest games I've played in my whole life.

I try to limit button-mashing attack-only RPGs. I also hate cliche RPGs with a sword-wielding
hero, then a quiet, sensitive healer girl. That's why I'm trying to make my game as insane
and un-textbook as possible!

Another point. Cool weapons. I think rather than having swords and bows, having something weird
like a whip or something is much cooler!
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Grandy on September 27, 2009, 08:17:49 PM
 I cannot stress this enough:

 Character Interaction.

 How many RPGs I played in which the character said a few lines when joining and then remained silent ever after? For the characters to be interesting, they've got to talk to each other, not only in plot important events, but small things like discussing what to get for meal or after all how old are you again?
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on September 27, 2009, 09:32:54 PM
Yeah, character development and interaction is a must. I love it more when
parties actually argue and stuff about stupid topics.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: CrossStrife on September 27, 2009, 10:30:29 PM
My main things are:
1. Universe - It has to be a BIG place toe explore. Galaxy big. (props to KotOR 1 and 2)
2. Memorable lines and characters - I'll never forget HK-47's classic line: "Meatbag."
3. Choices - Should I kill the laigreks and save Joran, or just trick him into coming out and getting eaten? Decisions decisions...
4. Good and Evil - I want a choice. Either I'm saving the world, or I'm blowing it up. One or the other.
5. AI for party - KotOR and other moderately action RPGs do a great job of this one.
6. INTELLIGENT Party AI - Read: KotOR.
7. Big. Freakin'. Surprises. - I'm talkin' "finding out you're the former evil mastermind but you don't quite remember it" big.

Yeah, KotOR is coming up a lot for me... Must just be the AWESOMENESS!
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Bluhman on September 28, 2009, 12:42:06 AM
The RPG, and any game, practically, can get separated into three distinct rings of quality:

1. Gameplay
How well does the game play, generally? Is it enjoyable? Well thought-out? Well executed? Does it try to break the monotony with features such as item-creation, minigames, different enemy types, unique bosses, or class changing?

2. Story
Is it compelling? Does it actually dare go beyond just compellingness, and go the extra mile, exploring characterization, applicable themes, and other such ideas? If the story can stand up on its own without a game, then that's a very good sign.

3. Aesthetic
Does the game look and sound good? Are the settings and graphics unique? Is the music appropriate, and perhaps catchy? Do the graphics match one another? I find that this is generally the hardest section to do competently in, unless you are an excellent artist.

I believe that, if a game can do well in these three arenas, then you've got yourself a winner. Pretty much any RM2k game could be applied to this and rated in the three arenas to come out with a general idea about how good it is.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on September 28, 2009, 04:21:51 AM
6. INTELLIGENT Party AI - Read: KotOR.
*walks into mine*
*almost dies*
*walks into another mine*
*dies*
I mean what.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Archem on September 28, 2009, 04:26:43 AM
All friendly AI has issues.

At least we're not talking about Rainbow 6: Vegas. They stand in the open and stare at you while hostiles shoot the piss out of them. They know nothing of cover, and playing on the "Realistic" difficulty is a pain. I might as well be by myself out there.

I use them as decoys while I run to better cover. I revive them when the lead stops flying.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: CrossStrife on September 28, 2009, 08:50:57 PM
*walks into mine*
*almost dies*
*walks into another mine*
*dies*
I mean what.
That's because either one, You set them to aggressive with melee when you should have swapped 'em to a blaster and picked Ranged, two, they have a blaster and you STILL have them at aggressive, or three, you didn't stealth mode remove the mines.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: SaiKar on September 28, 2009, 09:00:11 PM
Meh, the mines were just dick moves. And they were EVERYWHERE. It really slowed the game down.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: supasora on September 28, 2009, 09:02:10 PM
1. story/atmosphere. Other wise it sucks.
2. No silent protaginist, that annoys the crap out of me except zelda.
3. No cliches, Give traditional fantasy a break, unless you can bring something new to the table.
4. Music, I'm still waiting for a sci fi rpg with rave music.
5. Characters that are intreasting, I cant think of any examples at the moment.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Legacy of Elecrusher on September 28, 2009, 09:56:39 PM
1. Gameplay
2. Characters
3. Story
4. Music
5. The Bad Guy
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on September 28, 2009, 10:35:04 PM
I'd like to see more Mario RPGness in games. By that I mean the ability to just dodge an attack
if you have lightning-fast reflexes!
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: X_marks_the_ed on September 29, 2009, 01:38:35 AM
I'd like to see more Mario RPGness in games. By that I mean the ability to just dodge an attack
if you have lightning-fast reflexes!

The whole stage concept in Thousand Year Door made it epic! With power coming from crowd appeal and the use of Stylish commands! :D
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Fading on September 30, 2009, 04:44:33 AM
To me, loads of things are really important. But it all depends on what kind of RPG you're playing. Action RPG or Turn Based RPG each have their own important things. I'll discuss Turn Based seeing as most people already said a few words about Action RPGs.

1) Uniqueness in gameplay. I like the standard RPGs, but they're getting old. It's so easy to level five levels higher then beat the crap out of an otherwise difficult boss. Bosses should be challenging at all times.

2) Story. You can say what you want about other games, but to a Turn Based RPG, the story is one of the most important things. It's what keeps you entertained in between long battles.

3) Characters. Characters need to be there. They have a reason for coming with you and that reason should be clear. They shouldn't join the main character out of the goodness of their heart without a back story or without a reason, that simply doesn't work. Also important is character development, which some RPGs seriously lack. People develop because of certain events. If you want to have realistic characters, they should have development. This should be for both sides. Bad guys shouldn't be bad because they are just bad, they need reasoning behind it.

4) Sound and music. Great sounds effects and an outstanding musical score turns the tide awkwardness to awesomeness.

5) Graphics. The graphics should match the gameplay and story you are going for. Like with sound and music, it helps in supporting the rest.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: lilsniffs3 on September 30, 2009, 05:02:48 AM
Gameplay: What use is a game if you can't play it? Is it fun? Is it effective? Have I played this already?

Story: Long games need stories. I never settle for an okay story anymore, I only settle for good. *cough*FF6*cough*

Replay Value: This doesn't neccessarily mean alternate endings, I mean like New Game +, getting that party member you didn't have time for, doing side quests, etc.

CHARACTERS!: No one likes the "badass guy with spiky hair and sword." I like newer things, like "A drug addict sent to jail but broken out due to an alien invasion, and uses explosives." That's off the top of my head, it's original. Also, CHARACTERS SHOULD HAVE BACK STORIES!!!
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on September 30, 2009, 05:11:32 AM
Story: Long games need stories. I never settle for an okay story anymore, I only settle for good. *cough*FF6*cough*
It actually has a very good story, and in it's time, a lot of the things that were "cliche", or "overused" weren't at all.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: fruckert on September 30, 2009, 05:28:40 AM
I think he was using that as his example for a "good" game.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on September 30, 2009, 05:31:44 AM
I think he was using that as his example for a "good" game.
Meh, coughing usually denotes defaming something, not the other way around.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on September 30, 2009, 07:50:01 AM
The whole stage concept in Thousand Year Door made it epic! With power coming from crowd appeal and the use of Stylish commands! :D

What makes it better is that the very fabrics of the game suddenly get messed up. One of the bosses eats your
audience for god's sake. I mean, what's better than that?
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on September 30, 2009, 07:53:46 AM
Gameplay: What use is a game if you can't play it? Is it fun? Is it effective? Have I played this already?

Story: Long games need stories. I never settle for an okay story anymore, I only settle for good. *cough*FF6*cough*

Replay Value: This doesn't neccessarily mean alternate endings, I mean like New Game +, getting that party member you didn't have time for, doing side quests, etc.

CHARACTERS!: No one likes the "badass guy with spiky hair and sword." I like newer things, like "A drug addict sent to jail but broken out due to an alien invasion, and uses explosives." That's off the top of my head, it's original. Also, CHARACTERS SHOULD HAVE BACK STORIES!!!

Haha. My game features a patriotic Russian Bio-linguist, a cenile (drug addict?) old man and a traumatized, paranoid frog-like creature which can float!
I've devoted more time to funny scripts and analyzing what the characters are saying than anything else (apart from that ridiculously hard-to-make battle system.)
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Obvious Sock Account on September 30, 2009, 10:37:11 AM
The usual.  Halfway decent plot, enjoyable gameplay, a well-established setting (Probably why I like the Forgotten Realms as much as I do) and the like.  Characters who have any personality at all (http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/6/68/Cecil_DK_Dissidia.jpg), outside of a single emotion - usually impotent raeg (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa38/0_kasei_0/Dissidia/Squall-dissidia.jpg) - are pretty good too, says this observer.

Wait for it.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: MissingName on September 30, 2009, 10:57:07 AM
a patriotic Russian Bio-linguist

Hahaha!  I'm learning Russian this year.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: DawnOfStefan on September 30, 2009, 08:57:36 PM
Figured I'd make what time I have while I'm here with my input.

Battles: I usually prefer them to be turn-based. The whole ATB "think-fast" thing always screws me up. Some monsters can get more than one attack in and it can be overwhelming. The battle system should be unique, or at least semi-unique.

Storyline: Never really bothered me too much, but should be something at least decent.

Audio: I consider this category highly important. For example, say you need to grind to beat a tough boss. Guess what song you're going to hear over and over... That's right! The battle song! So the normal enemy battles (bosses too) should be good, but I prefer epic. It even helps to change the main battle theme as you progress through the game. If voices are used, make sure they aren't entirely annoying. This is a problem for some anime-themed games. I couldn't stand Rina from Luminous Arc 2 with her obnoxiously loud "LET'S DO OUR BEST!!"

Characters: This is also highly important in my view. (Non-RPG reference) In Warriors Orochi, it seems like every character had a theme, Ma Chao (JUSTICE!!), Kanetsugu (HONOR!!), Nagamasa (FAITH!!), etc... although that can be cool, giving every character something like that would get annoying. Some characters can be similar, but not exactly the same either. Luminous Arc 2 was good with character development (I think it was, anyway) with how they conversed and reacted to eachother... (Kaph is by far THE most epic character in that game)

I guess that's it for me. I'll add more if I think of something else.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: lilsniffs3 on October 01, 2009, 12:18:55 AM
Meh, coughing usually denotes defaming something, not the other way around.

I meant FF6 was good, but I see your point.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: fruckert on October 01, 2009, 12:21:14 AM
The usual.  Halfway decent plot, enjoyable gameplay, a well-established setting (Probably why I like the Forgotten Realms as much as I do) and the like.  Characters who have any personality at all (http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/6/68/Cecil_DK_Dissidia.jpg), outside of a single emotion - usually impotent raeg (http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa38/0_kasei_0/Dissidia/Squall-dissidia.jpg) - are pretty good too, says this observer.

Wait for it.
O NO U DINT!
SKWAL IS TEH KULIST!
lolno
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on October 01, 2009, 04:08:48 AM
O NO U DINT!
SKWAL IS TEH KULIST!
lolno
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh214/hobomasterxxx/squall.jpg)
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: MissingName on October 01, 2009, 11:04:08 AM
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh214/hobomasterxxx/squall.jpg)

Ahhh darn, I need to emulate through FF8 to get the picture I want.  (Squall facepalming)
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: DarkestNight on October 01, 2009, 03:30:52 PM
1.Character Customization for me is HUGE! It draws me in alot!

2.Storyline must be captivating, like the FF games. The problem with that is that once you know the story what fun is it? That happened to me with Crisis Core FFVII.

3.Worlds&Explorarion. I love the idea of go where you want, level up before moving on with the plot. Kingdom Hearts does that for me very much so.

4.Characters have to be lovable. Simple as that.

5.Difficulty curve must be gradual. I suck at games alot, but difficulty curves that are gradual are the best. Disgeae I can't play [or don't want to] because the difficulty curve was a brick wall.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on October 01, 2009, 06:20:58 PM
I just remembered. Has anyone ever played Disgaea 1 or 2 on PS2?

I sincerely promise that there isn't a single game on earth that offers
more customization than that. It's the most complex game I've ever
played. I spent about 300 hours on them. Amazing stuff.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: SaiKar on October 01, 2009, 11:06:12 PM
Ahhh darn, I need to emulate through FF8 to get the picture I want.  (Squall facepalming)
On a totally related note, can you give an emulator newbie some hints about how to be able to play Chrono Cross on such a device? >_>
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on October 01, 2009, 11:08:56 PM
On a totally related note, can you give an emulator newbie some hints about how to be able to play Chrono Cross on such a device? >_>

Getting anything Playstation-related to emulate is effing horrific. It's like trying to draw
blood from a stone.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: MissingName on October 01, 2009, 11:32:17 PM
PS1 emulator:  You need to find an emulator (I recommend ePSXe; (http://www.epsxe.com/ePSXe) the package should have all the plugins you need except for the BIOS).  Don't ask where I got my BIOS.  We'll say I "ripped it from my Playstation."
N64:  I suggest Project 64 (http://www.pj64-emu.com/PJ64).
NES: Nester (http://sourceforge.net/projects/nester-emu/)
SNES: zSNES (http://www.zsnes.com/)
GBA: Visual Boy Advance (http://vba.ngemu.com/)

Ummm... I've never tried to play Chrono Cross.  Is it as good as I've heard?  

I currently have:
[spoiler=PS1]
Metal of Honor: Underground
FFVII - Of course.
FFVIII - Apparently supasora's favorite game.
FF Tactics
Persona - Frustrating as ****.
Persona II
Metal Gear Solid - Play this.  It's really good.
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Silent Hill
Resident Evil - for the lulz
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=N64]
Perfect Dark
Goldeneye
Ocarina of Time - Need I say more?
Majora's Mask
Super Mario 64
Super Smash Brothers
Starfox 64
Rainbow Six[/spoiler]

Countless NES, SNES, GameBoy (Original, Color, Advance) games[spoiler=including]
Golden Suns 1 + 2 - YOU MUST PLAY THESE IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY DONE SO
Fire Emblem
Metal Gear and Metal Gear II
EarthBound - Excellent.  I STILL HAVEN'T BEATEN IT.
Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
Mario All Stars and World
Yoshi's Island
Kirby Adventures...
[/spoiler]

I'm using up about 13gB with all these, but it's well worth it.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on October 02, 2009, 01:40:47 AM
Getting anything Playstation-related to emulate is effing horrific. It's like trying to draw
blood from a stone.
Is your PC made of dead cats? It's really easy to emulate PS1, even PS2 isn't that hard.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Uberpwn_w00t on October 02, 2009, 03:02:31 AM
Originality: Show me something I haven't seen. Or at least put a spin on something I have seen.

Open-Endedness: I don't like to feel limited or constrained. I like a lot of freedom. I'm a sucker for open-world/sandbox type games.

Graphics: Not gonna lie. I'm a graphics whore. If it doesn't look good, or consistent, I probably won't play it.

Music: Gimme something I can jam to. Gimme something I'd put on my iPod.

Looking over these, this is probably why I love Sauerbraten so much.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: fruckert on October 02, 2009, 05:25:51 AM
I just remembered. Has anyone ever played Disgaea 1 or 2 on PS2?

I sincerely promise that there isn't a single game on earth that offers
more customization than that. It's the most complex game I've ever
played. I spent about 300 hours on them. Amazing stuff.
I'd say the same as DC2.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Bluhman on October 02, 2009, 05:27:35 AM
I just remembered. Has anyone ever played Disgaea 1 or 2 on PS2?

I sincerely promise that there isn't a single game on earth that offers
more customization than that. It's the most complex game I've ever
played. I spent about 300 hours on them. Amazing stuff.

I'd agree with that, but it also suffered from the fact that it took ****ing forever to grind up in strength. Hearing laharl's theme over and freaking over again while exploring item worlds and maximizing your experience is just a big pain.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Fading on October 02, 2009, 07:09:49 AM
Open-Endedness: I don't like to feel limited or constrained. I like a lot of freedom. I'm a sucker for open-world/sandbox type games.

I have to disagree with you on this part. Unless a sequel is planned, Open-Ended stories can really kill a story's potential. It leaves the story unfinished, gives you no ending to what they were doing.

Sure, semi-open can be pulled off good if they try. But I prefer an ending to what I've been working towards.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on October 02, 2009, 07:19:27 AM
I have to disagree with you on this part. Unless a sequel is planned, Open-Ended stories can really kill a story's potential. It leaves the story unfinished, gives you no ending to what they were doing.

Sure, semi-open can be pulled off good if they try. But I prefer an ending to what I've been working towards.
You misinterpreted him completely.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Bluhman on October 02, 2009, 07:25:20 AM
Yeah, think GTA... Only, an RPG.

(And then, ironically, you get the Elder Scrolls series, pretty much.)
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: fruckert on October 02, 2009, 07:29:26 AM
Purty much.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on October 02, 2009, 09:48:31 AM
You need to show me how to emulate a PS1 and PS2 because I never could!

Also, I'm not a huge fan of open world games. I was thoroughly disappointed with
Fallout 3 and Oblivion :(

Too much to do and nothing to do.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: HobomasterXXX on October 02, 2009, 10:02:10 AM
You need to show me how to emulate a PS1 and PS2 because I never could!

Also, I'm not a huge fan of open world games. I was thoroughly disappointed with
Fallout 3 and Oblivion :(

Too much to do and nothing to do.
All you do for PS1 is grab epsxe, get a plugin pack, and the bios, then just tweak the settigns to your liking. Any modern computer can run them with ease. My old Pentium 3 and 8 mb graphics card could.
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: zuhane on October 02, 2009, 11:18:51 AM
The last time I tried was like 3 years ago. I might give it another shot.

I need to say that I've actually tried FF7!
Title: Re: What makes an RPG good?
Post by: Archem on October 02, 2009, 09:55:14 PM
You misinterpreted him completely.
Thank you.