Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Natako on March 01, 2011, 03:15:47 AM
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Zuhane posted an interesting idea in another thread. What if we were to take serious games that people have created and review them as opposed to crappy games like the ones that Drak has done? It would give game creators the opportunity to have their work critiqued and to see how other people react to their game. After all, it's easy to convince yourself that you have the best game on the planet, but much harder to actually see the flaws in your own work. It would also give people an opportunity to publicize their games, and it might even draw in prospective game makers who see the videos up on Youtube. I don't know about those of you who have been around for a while, but that was how I came to be here in the first place.
However, the hardest part of doing a project like this is starting out. So let me ask you guys: how do you feel we should go about doing this?
Reviewers - Judging by drenrin's response in the other thread, it seems that we'll have a few reviewers working on this project. How are we going to divvy up the games? Will we take turns doing games, or will we choose the games that we want to do?
Games - Once the project gains some momentum, we'll hopefully have people asking to have their games reviewed. What about the beginning, though? Are we going to take submissions right from the start, or are we just going to review any game that we feel like doing? Submissions would be ideal, of course, but I don't know how many of you have games sitting around waiting to be reviewed. What material are we going to work with?
Format - In the other thread, Zuhane suggested a setup more similar to Drak's "let's play"-style reviews where the reviewer plays the first 20 minutes of the game and the game maker's job is to impress the reviewer in that time frame. Drenrin suggested that each reviewer conducts the review in his/her own style, perhaps in a more traditional format where the reviewer gives an overview of the entire game as opposed to the first 20 minutes. I think we should have our own styles regardless, but I'd like to hear from you guys as to what you want to see.
Charas Youtube Channel? - Are we going to have a youtube account specifically for these reviews? Should all of the reviewers know the password or just one person whom all the others send their reviews to? Do you think we should do this in a different way entirely?
Yeah. I might be getting ahead of myself by throwing all of these questions out there, but I think this is a great idea and I'd like to see us go somewhere with it. I'm interested in reviewing the games, and I believe Drenrin also said that he was. Let's hear your ideas here. ^^
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There was team for that if I recall, remember that? Something like that again, or what? I really like the idea of videos!
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0_o ...carmen?
Also, I like this idea b'cuz it provides an oppurtunity for disenthused old-members to contribute their knowledge of game-making while enticing new members to join and share their games and wub charas.
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There was team for that if I recall, remember that?
I could have sworn the Teams board was (threatened to be) dissolved.
Still though, this would be rather awesome.
I'd be all for doing text reviews as necessary.
My computer wouldn't be able to handle videos, though, and I'm boring to listen to (I sound like MS Sam).
So...I wouldn't be able to do videos.
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Wellll, if peeps don't have an aversion for... Acquired programs... I can hook people up with a good video recorder.
>_>
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Well maybe like 30 seconds of game play. I dunno, they used to do screen shots which were nice. But like you all said before, the games have to be out there. Every game I've played from here has been a wip, or a demo. It's so rare to get finished games. They're time consuming first off, then the Passion is easy to get distracted away from. I like the ideas you have though. I like the idea of inspiring new makers.
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My laptop can handle hypercam pretty well (as long as the game itself isn't too laggy) so I should be all right with that. I used to use Fraps on my old desktop, and from what I've heard, that's less laggy. We'll have to see what happens.
Text reviews might actually work pretty well. I've seen some pretty hilarious text reviews in my day, and even written a few of my own. If that works better for you, Fruckert, I say that you should try it that way. :D
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I think I might go do this tomorrow. If no one objects to me just starting a youtube thread and taking the bull by the horns. I call dibs on reviewing Zuhane's game.
(I'm pretty excited about this, so if I'm getting ahead of everyone, just tell me to calm down and have a seat.)
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I've got a lot to do tomorrow, so I probably won't get around to it until the day after that. I'll have to take a look at the games that are up and see what I might like to review. I take it we're just randomly choosing games for the time being, then? lol
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Time to go see what I can do...
*browses through the games forum*
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Lol, we could probably do this a lot more orderly. Like make a thread about it and let people know we're open to reviewing games. How we're gonna decide who reviews what. All that stuff.
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Lol, we could probably do this a lot more orderly. Like make a thread about it and let people know we're open to reviewing games. How we're gonna decide who reviews what. All that stuff.
That's what the entire original post was about. I was trying to say that we should figure out what we're going to do before we start. XD
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Hi, carmen!
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That's what the entire original post was about. I was trying to say that we should figure out what we're going to do before we start. XD
Like I said, I'm an excited little kid here. =P
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Hi, carmen!
*waves*
Do teams still exist? Then you could all just open a thread up.
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Nahh, I don't think they do...
*go and checks.*
EDIT: Nope, they don't seem to exist anymore. If this goes anywhere, we could probably just make another board. Or something to that effect.
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Sai threatened to destroy it unless serious activity was made.
I think we should plan a bit more, like actually making a team and getting some games to review.
Hey, why not we wait until the game contest is over?
Then we'll have a selection of games to actually review.
Interesting ones, too.
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Oh, fruckert is right. I wasn't even thinking of that. That should give us time to set up a game plan as well.
Here's an idea. We categorize our reviews. Something like, Tech Demos, Demos/WIPs, and full game reviews. Tech Demo's would not include gameplay and would focus on evaluating the system that is being showcased. Demos/WIP reviews will obviously be our most common review and will be shorter and easier to do. They would be more focused on evaluating the game as a total package (music, gameplay, storyline, graphics) while keeping in mind it is just a demo/wip. Full game reviews won't necessarily mean longer reviews, but will mean harsher reviews.
Not sure how to go about designating who reviews what. I'm assuming we're gonna have a team of people doing this? How large should our team be? Too big might get messy. Too big might also be really good, meaning we have a lot of older members who can be trusted to make good reviews.
Also, another idea. Since one point of view is lame, we could have one lucky person do a video review while the other members of the team just do written reviews. That way there's more than one opinion as well as a video to put up and attract attention.
Just some ideas to toss around.
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Here's an idea. We categorize our reviews. Something like, Tech Demos, Demos/WIPs, and full game reviews. Tech Demo's would not include gameplay and would focus on evaluating the system that is being showcased. Demos/WIP reviews will obviously be our most common review and will be shorter and easier to do. They would be more focused on evaluating the game as a total package (music, gameplay, storyline, graphics) while keeping in mind it is just a demo/wip. Full game reviews won't necessarily mean longer reviews, but will mean harsher reviews.
Seeing that I'm a writer and have been a contributor on sites which have made fun of clichés and generally nonsensical things in video games, I'd probably be best at Full Game reviews or Demos/WIP reviews. As long as I get to criticize the story at length, I'm fine with whichever of these positions that I end up with.
Not sure how to go about designating who reviews what. I'm assuming we're gonna have a team of people doing this? How large should our team be? Too big might get messy. Too big might also be really good, meaning we have a lot of older members who can be trusted to make good reviews.
Let's wait a bit longer to see who's interested in the project. So far, you, Fruckert, and I are the only people who have shown great interest in being reviewers. It's impossible to tell whether our team is going to be large or small yet. ;)
Also, another idea. Since one point of view is lame, we could have one lucky person do a video review while the other members of the team just do written reviews. That way there's more than one opinion as well as a video to put up and attract attention.
Perhaps we could take turns with this. One person could do a video review for one game and another can do it for the next. Likewise, we could take turns with the written reviews. We'll have to switch it up and see what works best for us. It would also spice the reviews up a bit, as spoken humor is often much different than written humor.
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I wouldn't mind reviewing a game or two, when I get time. I could easily do demos. Gawd, I've played so many wips its ridiculous. I also like the idea of a universal rating system in different elements.
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Okay, without sounding harsh in the nicest possible terms, we need some clear-minded reviewers who can
appreciate talent and effort and analyse games properly. Not people who are ready to make quick-fire and jaded
judgements about a game early on. Perhaps reviewers with a bit of Charas/rm2k/3 wisdom would be needed. It'd
also help if we got a reviewer with a snappy or attention-grabbing voice!
This idea could potentially be great if it goes through!! :D
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Considering I still use RM2k3 pseudo-daily, I might be able to fill that roll. No promises about the voice though.
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Zuhane: sounds ideal. But I think everyone here who's willing to do reviews understands all that. You can't be bias and you have to take a lot into consideration, some of it is personal opinion, some of it is from personal experience with the program in question. Also, we'll (hopefully) be reviewing more than just rm2k3 games.
That considered, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Sai: =D
Also, I like the idea of having multiple people do reviews. At the very least in the beginning. That way we can sort out who's good at video reviews (though I don't like putting it that way) and who wants to actually keep doing it. Because I imagine, like everything else, actually doing video reviews isn't all berries and cream like we first think.
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Um...despite being new to the forums, I've actually dabbled extensively in all of the RPG Makers, including the ones for Playstation. I've never managed to complete a game (as my games are quite long and my inner perfectionist compels me to change the storyline in a major way halfway through, often resulting in months of re-working dialogue and events). As for the reviewing part, I have done plenty of text reviews before on console video games and I think I'm pretty good at keeping an open mind about most things. I've kind of gained a reviewer's mindset over time from years of playing RPG's. Heck, I played through an RPGM2k3 game yesterday and was critiquing it in my head as I went along. It's just kind of something I do.
I'd like to try my hand at video reviews. I've done two before, and I think I'm pretty decent at making them entertaining. As for the voice thing...I don't know. I'll let you guys decide when you hear it. Like I said, we should all experiment a bit and see what works best for us.
On another note, I think I'll spend most of today working on my own RPG. I'm sick, so singing isn't an option...
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Here's a tip:
You want a voice that grips attention? Use a girl's voice. Or given, a male voice with an English or Australian accent. Like Razor's.
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You want a voice that grips attention? Use a girl's voice.
I believe Carmen and I both fit that criterion. XD
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xD
Kijuki has a point.
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Kijuki? Gawd I'm so in the dark. Bleh have you ever heard me? There's I reason I'm a shower only diva. I'm pretty sure I uploaded a jam where I sang here once. Nuff said. I say Australian, I want Steve Irwin to tell me about games!
Also, are we still talking rm2k3? We still do that here? What is the copyright deal on...the others? O.o
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Also, are we still talking rm2k3? We still do that here? What is the copyright deal on...the others? O.o
I think we're talking about reviewing amateur games in general. It doesn't even have to be made with one of the RPG Makers as long as it's a custom game.
As for copyright, I know that Enterbrain has stated that it's all right to release games you make with their software as long as you don't try to make a profit off of them. I don't think reviewing them would be an issue so long as you don't include copyrighted material along with your reviews (background music, for example).
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Kijuki? Gawd I'm so in the dark. Bleh have you ever heard me? There's I reason I'm a shower only diva. I'm pretty sure I uploaded a jam where I sang here once. Nuff said. I say Australian, I want Steve Irwin to tell me about games!
Also, are we still talking rm2k3? We still do that here? What is the copyright deal on...the others? O.o
Yeah. I don't publicly state that i am 'he who is not to be named'. And then Saikar justifiably knows i am either giving too much credit to myself or just trollin. So yah, I am Kij. As to the whole old members weirdly coming back(or never leaving), it just simply bores me.
Amateur games open up for noob's game spam. You got to have a bar risen if you're to be taken seriously when it comes to redirecting the site's posture. There's HARDLY games made with RM engines which are 100% original material, or 100% cited and credential material. If you plan to review games with a strict sense of copyright, prepare yourselves to be at the same stance in which you are now. Oddly, I just realized how i mixed the amateur and strict natures of both sides.
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I was just wondering what kinds of games are out there now.*browses inner nets*
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Raising the bar isn't a bad idea, but I don't think we should take ourselves too seriously. As for copyrights, Drak did plenty of games with copyright material and there wasn't a problem. And as for 100% original stuff, that's not really charas style... Our entire archive of resources might as well be rips. So, yeah, we'll probably get to reviewing some n00b *** games, but we'll rip on them and it'll be fun.
I'm not saying this is gonna save charas, I'm just saying it's a start and we should see where it goes.
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When you consider that people put Let's Plays of the original games (where the source materials come from) up on Youtube and they rarely ever get erased, I don't think it's such a big deal to show them in a review format. Consider regular reviews for games - you pretty much have to show clips from the game itself if you want the review to be interesting.
As for tilesets/sprites/etc. ripped from other games, there's just way too much of that stuff out there for them to crack down on it unless, as I said earlier, you're trying to make money off of the game. In that case, it's like trying to make money off something that wasn't yours to begin with. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u4h5STlXUc) Think of it this way: in many respects, RPG Maker games are to professional games what fanfiction is to literature. Unless an author (e.g. Anne Rice) has specifically requested that his/her characters not be featured in fanfiction, no one's going to take down fanfictions which feature familiar characters or settings.
I don't know, that's just kind of how I view it. Regardless, I don't think that's much of an issue. You're free to argue with my viewpoints if you like. :P
And yeah, I agree with Dren. In fact, I think this conversation is a good time to post this:
[spoiler=Warning! May frighten small children.](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/Angelwrath/Srs_Cat.jpg)[/spoiler]
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I'm not really worried about the resources used, I was thinking like, are we still hush hush about xp etc?
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naw, no one cares about XP or VX. I think VX was released in English too, so anyone can say they purchased the legit program.
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I don't see why XP or VX games would pose any issues with copyright. Like I said earlier...no profit, no problem. From what I've read on the forums so far, I'm assuming that you're referring to the fact that this site was primarily focused on 2k and 2k3 back in it's day, but I don't think it would create an issue if people submitted XP/VX games...assuming that they are fully playable for anyone who has not purchased those two products. I have both of them on my computer anyway, so it's not a problem for any reviews that I do, at the very least. According to the rules, I'm pretty sure that it's fine to discuss aspects of newer RPG Makers. We're just not allowed to post download links to them, as that is illegal.
Personally, I think we should take all kinds of games. I use mostly XP these days. I know that there are other people on the forums who are creating games in completely different programs, such as Gamemaker. As long as I can run the game without downloading any additional software, I'm fine with reviewing it. However, the only games I can offer detailed technical advice on (in regards to programming gameplay, events, etc.) are RM games. If I were to review a game made with software I haven't used, I probably wouldn't be able to get as in-depth as I would with RPG Maker games where I'm aware of the limitations of the software.
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I think she's referring to when XP first came out, which was around the time she still visited charas frequently, I believe. When XP first came out, there was a big stink about whether or not Charas would support it due to legality issues. That seems to be a thing of the past now.
As for reviewing games made with other programs, this should be fine because what is reviewed is all the same. We may not be able to tell them how to fix problems, but pros/cons are still pros/cons, no matter what the platform. Being forgiving of a platforms limitations is being bias in itself. =P
Plus, I think Fruckert has some experience with GameMaker, anyway.
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Plus, I think Fruckert has some experience with GameMaker, anyway.
Tons.
Most of my games are made in GM.
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The more I think about this, the more the idea of alternate viewpoints is becoming more appealing. However we achieve this - whether through having one video review and different text reviewers - I think it will be interesting and advantageous to the game makers if more than one of us posts some sort of review. We might even want to do a bit of collaborating. For instance, story/characterization is my forte, but I'm pretty sure that both Dren and Fruckert whup my *** in the coding/programming department (as for suggestions on how to fix flaws and such). I can still rate gameplay, music, etc. and explain what's done wrong and what's done right, but as for suggestions on how to improve them...Well, we all have different areas of expertise, and we should use those to our advantage.
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I was thinking that too. Some sort of system where we each apply our talents in our reviews? As for me and programming... ehh... it's rpgmaker specific, meaning I'd call myself a good "eventer" at best. Though I have been writing music and stories ever since I started doing this kind of stuff... Not that I'm an English or music major... =P
I'm not too sure about that though. We might as well all give our opinions on the total package, you know?
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I'd call myself a good "eventer" at best.
I'm like this as well. If I spend enough time, I can create almost anything using events...but there are some places where scripting is necessary, such as in custom battle systems. Also, having too many events usually makes the game lag. One of these days, I really need to teach myself how to code. It would make everything so much easier.
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I'm not a terrific programmer, but I do know quite a bit about gameplay design.
Or at least I think I do.
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I'm not really worried about the resources used, I was thinking like, are we still hush hush about xp etc?
Well, we still can't link to illegal downloads of the makers. But people can feel free to post resources for any of them they want. I was into doing XP character sets for a while, but they're kind of a pain so I stopped.
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Here's a tip:
You want a voice that grips attention? Use a girl's voice. Or given, a male voice with an English or Australian accent. Like Razor's.
I'm British! :D
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Yes, agreed! Lucas' lack of self-esteem will make his voice hilarious!
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We could have subtitles with what it sounds like he's saying for extra lulz.
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So where are these games you guys are going to review? Any in mind?
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Well, after the game making contest is over we can use those, and there have been quite a few games in the last year to posted in the games section that I believe were either completed or in a good demo state.
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Fruckert was suggesting that we wait until the games contest is over so then we'll actually have some new games to review. Perhaps we can also make a post asking the forum members if there are any games/demos that they've created that they want to submit. I really think we should prioritize requests over random games, as with requests, the submitter expects and wishes for his/her game to be evaluated whereas with random games, the original maker might not even know that the game is being reviewed in the first place.
...And damn, Legend beat me to the post. :P
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:)
Haha. Also, if you prefer, AFL seems to be my name here. To be honest, I hate my username on here. Its from my first serious game 4 years ago. Most sites I use Bando or Josephb.
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I'd offer to change it, but those alternatives are lamer than what you've got now.
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Haha. Thanks.
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I suppose we could all take turns doing reviews if we feel qualified and happy about it. I think Leo
and Leah should be submitted to this contest again. It's really good!
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I suppose we could all take turns doing reviews if we feel qualified and happy about it. I think Leo
and Leah should be submitted to this contest again. It's really good!
This, in both aspects. I think there's a lot more games then we imagined that we can review. Games from Charas members. So, if we all take turns doing videos, we can do more reviews faster. So, if we do agree on that, then...
How many reviews should we do and how often? Should we just pump them out like its no one's business? Or do, at most, one a week?
EDIT: Also, once this thing gets established, we should wait for people to come to us and if we do decide there's a game we want to review, we should definitely make sure the artist/creator knows about it first and gives consent.
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If everyone's going at it frantically then who's to say what basis we upload them on? We could just
go mad and constantly review if enough people are up for it.
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I think it should be a weekly thing. Just sayin'
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Eh, I've already given up.
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-_- ...gee, sai.
Ben made a good point, if we wait for the update SMF v2, we have time to work things out. This thread is only 3 days old.
Anyway, how we put them out whenever we want to or are asked too? With a whole team of people doing reviews, getting these things out will be a lot easier.
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I'm going to recommend that we strive for one review a week. Trust me, as fun as it is to do something like this, we'll all get burnt out if we start reviewing every game we can get our hands on. Also, the quality of our reviews will most likely be better if we release on a weekly basis as opposed to anything quicker. We'll have to see how it goes once we actually start reviewing, though.
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I actually meant to say something like that. Around once a week, taking turns so we only release one review at a time.
My point was to not get worried if a month goes by without a review or if we review a few games in a month.
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Yeah, I agree with you. Perhaps a set schedule isn't the best idea.
So my idea is that when we officially start these reviews, we should first ask for any submissions from forum members and then make a list of games that are available for us to cover. All of us that are interested in recording/writing reviews can choose a game and spend as much time as we need constructing that review. I still think we should prioritize requests first, though.
So do you guys think we should take turns? Do you think we should call dibs, or do you think it would be fairer if we had another way of choosing who reviews what game?
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I think you should worry less about details and more about making the first video and seeing how it goes.
Anyone want to volunteer a game to review?
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Tryouts. Get your tryouts here.
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As someone said, try not to plan too much. We're (ex) rpgm creators. We should know by now that too much planning will only demotivate you them moment something don't go as fluently as it was supposed to.
Test it, start it up and get it going before deciding a whole bunch of detailed stuff.
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Also, I animate in Flash. If people like, I could do some summary thing at the end which you
could attach to the end where it makes slamming noises and each score appears, a little
like an IGN video review.
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All right. Maybe I'll pick a game after I get out of work today. Again, does anyone have any requests?
And Zuhane, that sounds awesome.
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We could also some sort of award thing for like most promising demo, best graphics, best gameplay, etc. That would be interesting and would be a good morale boost for game makers. With that in mind, I'd be very willing to offer my game over for review...but I'm currently working on finishing up my Chapter 1 make-over. Since these reviews will be about 20 min, I can submit the first chapter of my game so it would be out earlier then how long it would take me to release the game where it is now...if that makes any sense.
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Linkforce, it would be excellent if you'd submit your demo once you've finished reworking Chapter One to your liking.
Regarding your idea, I think that would be kind of a neat touch. We could select a time frame during which to rate games, and it would be sort of like a contest for the submitters. And we all know that everyone loves contests. :D
I think I'll pick a game to do today and start this thing up. I'm home from work today with what seems to be vertigo, so why not.
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This gives me some motivation to just release a really good 20-minute tech demo of Quasigen Island and
just include all the best parts I've worked on! :D
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I wouldn't mind reviewing Linkforce's game.
(http://paradoxdgn.com/junk/avatars/trollface.jpg)
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Good one.
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This gives me some motivation to just release a really good 20-minute tech demo of Quasigen Island and
just include all the best parts I've worked on! :D
You should do this regardless. ;)
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I wouldn't mind reviewing Linkforce's game.
(http://paradoxdgn.com/junk/avatars/trollface.jpg)
Not falling for that again!
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Guess what, guys? I actually completed a serious game review! Huzzah!
This is the first Let's Play-style review that I've ever done. I had quite a lot of fun doing it and am very happy with how it turned out. Hopefully you guys will be as amused with it as I am.
So for the first review...Zuhane's Quasigen Island demo!
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8jk14w-Bbo
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDloKoT3QO8
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crUo28He1OY
The whole Let's Play takes about a half hour. Enjoy!
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w00! *watches*
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Oh man, I'm liking this demo.
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Thanks a lot for reviewing this game, Natako! I think you've really got a keen
skill for reviewing games and I'd like to hear more of them!
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Okay, so I watched it, only one real complaint. It was kind of long. I found myself skipping ahead a bit, but it was still really fun.
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Yeah, I was thinking that I probably could have cut out some of the travel time. In the end, I didn't do it because I found myself extremely amused watching myself wander about like a blind, deaf toddler with an inner ear infection. I probably find it more amusing than you guys, because I'm watching it and thinking "How the hell did I mess that up??? AGGGGH." It really is more hilarious for me as I'm rewatching it rather than playing it. XD