Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Natako on March 06, 2011, 01:17:15 AM
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I...uh...think it's okay to post this since I saw another like it earlier on this forum.
So I opened up my email this morning, and nestled in my inbox was a message from a petition site. I proceeded to read it and GRR IT MAKES ME ANGRY. Because it makes me so angry, I feel compelled to share it with the rest of you.
Apparently, the Texas Board of Education wants to put creationists in charge of the content of science text books. This is a stupid move for obvious reasons. Many of these people deny evolution, and some completely deny science at all. To quote from the email:
One said, "I can find physical and written testimony that the Earth is only 6,000 years old ... Studying natural history can be an interesting, fun, and adventure-filled pursuit, but it is not real science." Another puts it even more bluntly: "As a creationist, I believe naturalism in the sciences to be science-fiction."
Furthermore, this change might have a significant impact on the rest of the United States, as many of our textbooks and educational materials come from Texas. I seriously doubt that Texas will succeed with this because...well, let's face it. I know CHRISTIANS who believe that evolution is practically irrefutable, my grandmother included. And whatever happened to the separation of church and state? Texas's idea is not only dumb - it's plain unconstitutional.
Anyway, I could rant on and on about this as an anti-theist, but I'm not going to. If you want to sign the petition, here's the link:
http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/txwaronscience/?akid=324.349148.MrD74P&rd=1&t=2
Because all America needs are more idiots. =\
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As a Texan, I am quite irked to hear this. It's giving us all a bad name when the most ignorant have the loudest voices.
Oh, and let's not turn this into a religious debate. The only thing I hate more than religious extremists are atheistic extremists, and any religion debate is sure to make that side of people surface. Let's keep things firmly government (but not necessarily political), factual, and on-topic.
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I like living in a country made up mostly of athiests. Stuff like this just doesn't happen.
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I find this more facepalm-y than the whole "Let's apply phone internet charges to home computers!"
Signed.
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High five for you archem.
Also, anyone heard about the bill in GA that wants to make abortion a crime punishable by death. Under this, certain kinds of miscarriage would be considered murder.
I just don't know what to make of all the ignorance popping up lately. I know there are a lot of smart people in America, so why do all these idiots have such loud voices.
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Things like this sure help Religious people to be taken seriously.
Of course, I personally don't generalize, but some others do.
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I really don't care. The newer generations coming up are appearing to be dumbest generation there's been. So whether mad scientists or religious fanatics control the books, is all same. It won't change the fact that people will still want to shoot other people.
Reading books help pass grade school. After that whether you are an atheist or a dedicated christian, you are on your own.
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Oh, and let's not turn this into a religious debate. The only thing I hate more than religious extremists are atheistic extremists, and any religion debate is sure to make that side of people surface. Let's keep things firmly government (but not necessarily political), factual, and on-topic.
I have to admit, you deserve some props for this one.
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Eh, unless you're speaking of brazil, a surprising amount of people in America are strongly opposed to evolution.
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Bahaha.
You forgot to enlarge each time. Tsk. Tsk.
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Love this debate, we have a couple of backwater islands over here were people stare and points at dinosaurs if they ever see one.
They solution I see to this is : God made evolution happen, science explains how it happened. And then all the crazy people should just agree on it.
Fun part is that Texas receives a lot of crap for your zealotly minority, tv shows like to portray you guys as mad and then there are some other stuff that happens that actually reach the news. Like the Texas Chainsaw massacre.
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As a biologist, I find it rather difficult to not be atheist. I can't just be religious when facts smack
me head-on in the face at every lecture. Choosing bronze-age myths over hard evidence available
in any basic A-level biology research paper does not make Zuhane a happy bunny :(
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I had a crazy communist professor for Political Science 101, he had a vendette against Texas. He was a crazy asshat.
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Eh, every ideology will have a wing that's so far out that it makes the rest of the ideology look bad.
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Both my parents were biologists, and both believed in the "God made evolution happen" thing. ><
And yeah, TV loves to show Texans as crazy Christian zealots. I love how The Big Bang Theory has Sheldon being from Texas, though. And his family being religious. It's so hilarious.
I imagine Archem's life being somewhat like his.
Sort of, but not a lot. My parents grew up in a religious family, but they seem to be non-practicing. My mother grew up Catholic, my father was something a bit less Catholic, and while my grandparents (none of whom are still with us, sadly) were very religious, my siblings and I are agnostic at best. I prefer just to ignore the whole religion thing altogether, since I can't commit to religion, and I don't feel as strongly as atheists. A lot of Texans do have their beliefs, but so do other parts of the world. The difference seems to be that we have about as many extremists as the middle east, which makes an unnecessarily large part of the current military action religious.
And that's about as far down that road as we're going. Let's not stray any further into religion.
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Seconded. We're half a step from someone saying "well here's my opinion on religion", and that is a slippery and faeces-coated slope.
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Suffice to say I really only feel comfortable with actual scientists deciding what to teach our children.
My views on religion don't have anything to do with it.
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Interesting enough I just watched a Simpson episode where Flanders and Lovejoy decides to demand the school to teach creationism.
Great timing, great episode.
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Suffice to say I really only feel comfortable with actual scientists deciding what to teach our children.
My views on religion don't have anything to do with it.
This is pretty much how I feel.
One of the great things about the US is that we've always been allowed to believe whatever we want, or not believe at all. That was the reason that the settlers escaped Europe to begin with - religious persecution. Remember that? I just can't stand it when people try to take away that basic freedom. Private schools exist for a reason. Besides, one of the glorious things about science is that it's built around theories. So you don't believe in the Big Bang Theory? Fine. So you don't believe in evolution? If that's what you believe, great. But in a school setting where you have many different people with many different views, science is the only thing that's appropriate to teach as it is based on observations and logic and generally does a good job of explaining the world we live in. I mean, if you look around you, there's practically nothing that would exist if not for scientific research. In that sense, it worries me that textbooks would be printed by people who aren't completely objective about science.
Well, I'm not sure that this post made any sense. I'm tired, ok?
And Purple, that is quite a coincidence. That's kind of awesome. XD
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Made perfect sense to me.
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Well put, Natako.
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Your pennies say "In God we trust".
Therefore, you all believe in God. Your pennies say it. They speak for everyone, and you know money's always right. Always.
Seriously though, extremists trying impose their beliefs, whether atheists or believers, should b persecuted.
Young children shouldn't be forced into believing, or not believing. It's a choice, not a rule.
Or something.
Yeah...
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Science, in a way, has a lot of trust in it. The more I am in a technical field and I find my theoretical conclusions not matching up with my experimental results, and have to keep reminding myself "well, there are variable at play here that I'm not aware of. Probably" the more it feels like a religion in itself. Gotta have faith that physics and thermodynamics aren't messing with me!
But, even as a Christian, I do believe that religion should stay out of the classroom. You cannot be taught true faith. If you believe, great, you can learn more. But children don't really have the proper mental understanding of what's at stake when dealing with God and other religious matters. I'm proof that the system works - I became a Christian in college. And I'm glad I grew up an atheist, because at least I learned what that means, not to mention some actual science in school.
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I...
*sigh*
I just don't understand why people who have faith feel the need to point out how much better off they are then everyone else because of it. Like I'm missing out and I'll "grow up" eventually.
EDIT: I'm aware of Archem's rule I've broken and that I am generalizing.
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... that was not in any way the impression I was trying to give people about my faith.
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I was a hardcore atheist from 13 to 16, spent a while as an agnostic when I realised what a presumptuous cock I was being ("there's no proof either way, but I know there's no God!"), and in the past couple of years I've formulated my beliefs, come to my own conclusions and settled into a faith that suits me. And while I agree with what (I think) Dren is trying to say, that religion is not "always better", I'm much more comfortable now.
I live with a Catholic and a militant atheist. I get stick from both sides. It's all jokes. Religion is like dress sense. If you don't care and don't want to make the effort, that's fine. If you want to follow the herd, that's fine too. If you want to be wacky and outrageous, that's also fine. Do whatever.
But of course, this thread isn't about religion.
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If you believe, great, you can learn more.
Sorry, I'm just a bit touchy about this. I don't think you really look down on anyone or think you're better off then them. I know you didn't mean it. Personally, though, almost every religious person I've ever talked to has taken this stance very boldly. And by bold I mean, to the point of almost laughing. This includes my mother, which is probably the most awkward thing ever.
Still, I respect people's decisions to do what they will. I'm even happy for them for finding a place or belief they can stand by. That's a rare thing.
BUT OF COURSE...
this thread isn't about religion.
I forget myself.
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I meant that, if you believe in the religion, you can learn more about the religion on your own outside the classroom and from other people and that is the best way to learn it. Um. I'm not sure exactly how you're taking it to be honest.
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I thought you were suggesting faith helps your studies. haha, which I should've realized contradicts exactly what you were saying. As I said, I didn't think you meant anything by it, which you obviously didn't.
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"When you think you know everything about faith and religion - you actually know nothing" Is something my teacher used to say.
We had a bunch of people who were all "This is Christianity, this is how to gain heaven" And that was it. Same with the muslim counterpart and then some hardcore atheists who were all "When you die, you rot and get eaten by worms. Life is meaningless and all about monetary gain, your choices in life means and affects nothing and science proves that god don't exist".
Kids follow the flow, that's no lie. So their truth about faith will merely be what people tell them. So it's kinda natural that people starts pondering about god and faith as they grow up. I'm not saying that people will get religious of all things as they mature but rather that all things in life comes into consideration all of a sudden.
Growing up as anything - vegetarian, religious or whatever will more or less just make you take on what the people around you say. Realizing what your own belief is later on is pretty up to each and every one. Over here we like to point out that religion is an individual matter, that no one should interfere in what you believe and only you can find the road to your own salvation. (Our churches are rather flexible that way, gaming nights are also fun).
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Besides, one of the glorious things about science is that it's built around theories.
I just would like to point out that this is actually what the creationists get at. They claim that evolution is only a THEORY, it isn't proven. The fact is, that when it comes to science, very rarely is something ever called a fact. For example, the idea that the Earth rotates the sun, and that the Earth is round are both scientific theories. Despite the fact that we can actually see the evidence of it, they are still called theories.
And the gaddam POPE believes in evolution!
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"When you think you know everything about faith and religion - you actually know nothing" Is something my teacher used to say.
We had a bunch of people who were all "This is Christianity, this is how to gain heaven"
- trailing off from here -
See all this? This religion stuff? Let's not do this, because the topic is about teaching creationism in textbooks versus something a bit more factual. I don't give two shits about getting to heaven. Let's get on topic before I get off my lazy *** and do something staff-like.
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Eh, I don't think it needs to be locked. Let the conversation go where it's gunna. If people are getting upset, they can abscond.
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JW's are the worst. -_- I just can't be rude to people, even when they know on my door and want to talk to me.
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Open mindedness, ah what a concept.
Yet neither or, have it sometimes.
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(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50282_275950255372_231624_n.jpg)
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(http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50282_275950255372_231624_n.jpg)
Certainly not something that is all religion and disconnected from the original topic. That would be crazy...
*sigh* I guess my involvement makes topics derail eve when I try to keep them on-track...
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I'm interpreting that as "What the ****?" towards the "Creationists in charge of science" thing.
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It was actually in response to
Yet neither or, have it sometimes.
but whatever, that works too.
My final thoughts on this: religion and science will always be at odds, so putting one in charge of teaching the other is silly. When teams of scientists are put in charge of writing church sermons, then we'll talk.
I am leaving the thread now.
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They should make it a fair exchange and give the churches to the science teachers.
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Good call. I'm sure that would settle things. Well, that, or cause massive bitching from people who want to control everyone's minds. I hate people with agendas...
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Science should be standard, and religion should be choice.
Why teach the "6000 years old" thing in the text books?
If anything, teach Norse mythology because that **** is ****ing awesome. It is off the hook.
o J
^ ^
that **** the hook
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Woah that's dangerously off the hook
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I hate people with agendas...
Almost everyone has an agenda. Most people have several. Not having an agenda is a sign that there's nothing you really care about enough to think its worth defending.
Science should be standard, and religion should be choice.
Why teach the "6000 years old" thing in the text books?
If anything, teach Norse mythology because that **** is ****ing awesome. It is off the hook.
o J
^ ^
that **** the hook
Huge amounts of science only make sense if you go back waaaay farther than 6000 years. Like evolution, earth sciences, and anything to do with space.
And dude, that **** is basically flying off the hook. It's like **** wants nothing to do with that hook. The hook filed for divorce from that **** and is now seeking custody of the hook and the ****'s two kids.
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Almost everyone has an agenda. Most people have several. Not having an agenda is a sign that there's nothing you really care about enough to think its worth defending.
Don't patronize me.
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*patronizes Archem*
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Son of a bitch! Where's my rifle?
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I'm a moderate Christian and I believe that creationism can go hand in hand with science as a form of showing god's methods in bringing about a sensible existence that gives us the tools to shape our own futures for better or for worse. I don't believe we should force god into our schools though, if children want to learn about god let them do it in a church or from a parent. I think god gave us a general set of dos and don'ts and wanted us to be moral people while finding our own way, and some of us took those morals to the extremes as a form of subverting others to the demands of a few individuals.
*Signed*
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One said, "I can find physical and written testimony that the Earth is only 6,000 years old ..."
Oh my god. There are so many things wrong with this sentence, I don't know where to begin.
I'm so embarrassed to be a Texan. I'm sorry, everybody. I swear we're not all like this.
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Heh, only fools generalize.
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Heh, only fools generalize.
:)
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All who generalize are fools.
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I see what you did there, G.