Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Alex on August 06, 2004, 12:07:29 AM
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Time to reveal some of my tricks.
As you all know, talking about moderators here in Charas is something God himself would be scared to do.
Fortunatly, i'm not him!
You all know Admins/Mods is a terrific subject.
Well, i started a different "test", looooong ago...
We have DF and KM as admins (read: global mods)
We have Reain and Trevlac as All of all mods
And we have other mods for other boards.
Now let's see what happened all around here.
I noticed that some mods had no troubles at all.
They're respected by users, they can do their job, they work fine.
The only board that gave troubles in the past as well as now is All of all.
In the beginning also Carmen had some troubles (when i made her mod in "Community Contest Team"), but nothing so serious. Now the CCT board is quiet (and i hope really operative ASAP).
Every mod outside All of all was (and is) able to show his "mods skills". We learned to respect some users when they was just "simple users". Some of them never became Mod, and we all still respect them and their wiseness.
We have not to respect someone just because he is a Mod or an Admin: a person needs to conquer respect with something more than a forum status.
I saw some mods are generally respected by everyone.
I saw some mods had troubles with someone.
But I just didn't do anything to stop everyone's freedom in telling his opinion.
I decided to give the whole forum some months to see it's real face.
Now i have a better picture of everything.
Recently Gary gave me an idea: unfortunatly he talked about it with Trevlac too, so my "extra" target needed to be changed.
The idea was simple: to create a logfile of Admins/Mods actions around the forums.
That was nothing new, i already had similar logs available.
Anyhow, creating a separate file was not a bad "extra" because it allow me to "finish" my initial project.
Starting from Friday 30 Jul 2004, i have an html file which shows all movethread, deletethread, deletepost, unstick, stick, unlock and lock actions performed by all of the Admins and Mods.
It's in a secure and protected area now, but soon it will be a relevant part of my final step: a sort of "Mod Quality Gazzette" of Charas.
Too often i see peoples fighting about forum politics and Mods behaviours, mainly and expecially in All of all.
In these last days, tons of post about Trevlac.
Sometimes i see objective posts, sometimes i see really personal feeling posts.
But in politics we need two main things: objectiveness and lightness.
This is why i announce this now, so
READ THIS CAREFULLY
On August 15th (10 days from now) i will publish that logfile.
Everyone will be able to see what Admins/Mods did on Charas forums.
This way, everyone will be able to see if some Admin/Mod acted wrong.
You will be able to see:
The date
The Admin/Mod name
Target post original owner's name.
The performed action (move, lock, delete, etc)
The thread subject
The forum the thread was (is) in
In one word, everyone will be able to see what our politicians did.
And everyone will have a way to judge them for their REAL ACTIONS.
I truly think this will help in many ways:
1st) it will make possible to avoid that sense of "power abusing" some users assign to some Mods.
2nd) it will make Mods acting more carefully, because they're actions will be public, just as their role is.
3rd) it will destroy that sense of "mod status": with this logfile published, being a mod will be a truly social job here, without the protection of the "status" and with lot of responsibilities to face.
Again, in one word: are they representing/defending us? Are they working for Forum safeness? Then it's our right to see how they do all of this. And to judge them for what they really do, in good as in bad. Let's actions talk louder than words.
Edit: publish date corrected, thank you Saikar ;)
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On July 15 (10 days from now) i will publish that logfile.
I believe you mean August 15th, my friend.
Other then that this is a pretty interesting idea. I want to see what kind of a reaction this causes when the date comes.
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Good Idea. I'm behind you all the way.
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Heh, Sai I picked up on that too.
I'm going be interested in the results of this. Jolly good stuff.
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I like the idea! :D
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Sounds good.
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Hmmm... you'll probly see those fairly old topics I deleted that were made by a member who has resigned from charas, and that time I had trouble with Schiznea who spammed some in the "post a picture of yourself" thread. I left that guy's game thread though, just in case he reconsiders. Hmmmm... other than that... I'm not really sure, guess I'll have to wait for that logfile.
Btw, I have a sneaky suspicion Gary's up to somthing... He's already claimed he cares really nothing of the place anymore... he seems to sign in and out alot. I don't think he really wants anything to do with here, just wants to cause some rukus here and there. Thats my honest opinion, it's the way he out of nowhere made that prophecy topic and ect, he KNEW there would be ones that would get upset over it... It's like he's not himself anymore. The old Gary from my first time here was NOT that way, he yelled at people for disobeying the rules maybe but other than that he was ok... hm... I wonder whatever happened to those days? They seem so far away now... sorry, I just had to let that out.
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Hopefully this will be a fair way to decide who's doing a proper job.
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I dunno about fair, it seemed to be forced...
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Hmmm... you'll probly see those fairly old topics I deleted that were made by a member who has resigned from charas, and that time I had trouble with Schiznea who spammed some in the "post a picture of yourself" thread. I left that guy's game thread though, just in case he reconsiders. Hmmmm... other than that... I'm not really sure, guess I'll have to wait for that logfile.
Btw, I have a sneaky suspicion Gary's up to somthing... He's already claimed he cares really nothing of the place anymore... he seems to sign in and out alot. I don't think he really wants anything to do with here, just wants to cause some rukus here and there. Thats my honest opinion, it's the way he out of nowhere made that prophecy topic and ect, he KNEW there would be ones that would get upset over it... It's like he's not himself anymore. The old Gary from my first time here was NOT that way, he yelled at people for disobeying the rules maybe but other than that he was ok... hm... I wonder whatever happened to those days? They seem so far away now... sorry, I just had to let that out.
Oh, yes, I've noticed too. But on a lighter note, this sounds like a good idea.
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Is it possible to throw in an extra for logging out and logging in? Out of curiousity...
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I've nothing to hide, I'm not a true mod like the others here, but I'm a mod, and I'm not sure I like this idea...
Not a problem to let all see what we do, but this way looks like a menace, an intimidation!
I know that Charas is not like others forums, here we are all friends and all free, our value is the same for all and it's right that a mod's work is public, but...
Dunno... I'm not sure I like it...
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Hmmm... agreed SMB. I too will not hide my actions, I did indeed delete around 20 topics 2 days from today, they were of a member who left us, I just decided instead of letting them become pray for topic kickers I would delete them. I did however, as said, leave his game thread. In case he does reconsider, someday.
To fix this action so I'm actually doing somthing helpful (because I have been too lazy recently) I will do some clean-up on some forums, oldest first, keeping those that are of importance or contribute to charas history.
If it is ok that is.
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well it's a good Idea to make our actions public, but to how much of a degree? I don't have anything to hide, so I usually tell things straight up; But SMB has a point. It makes it seem like the mods are being modded. Balance of powers? Or will it just bring about totally negative things with it? Like examples to attack or dislike mods.
edit: sorry it's late and I had some serious grammar issues lol
2nd edit:(lol) Maybe you should try posting it in private first? give it a run by the mods first, to know what everyone sees before? maybe?
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Originally posted by SMB
I've nothing to hide, I'm not a true mod like the others here, but I'm a mod, and I'm not sure I like this idea...
Not a problem to let all see what we do, but this way looks like a menace, an intimidation!
I know that Charas is not like others forums, here we are all friends and all free, our value is the same for all and it's right that a mod's work is public, but...
Dunno... I'm not sure I like it...
I expected this, but don't get me wrong.
You know why we made that "test" with Trevlac? Because there were many users who wanted "proofs" about him.
My target is not to scare Mods, my target is to give an objective proof to calm down riots against mods.
There are many users that often say "i don't like him", "i don't like the way he's acting", "he acts this way just because he's a mod", etc.
Now we'll have something to show.
As you all know i always discuss my decisions with everyone, i take care of every voice. Charas is a place based on lightness.
Publishing a log of Mods actions it's not a menace: it's a way to show we're all not afraid to face our responsibilities.
I don't want to say "we have the proofs you abused your powers", i want to say "look at the logfile, he simply did his job and you can see proofs he did it fine!".
Not a menace so, but a way to leave Admins/Mods working quitely.
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So everyone's clear on this, I AM the one that Gary told about HIS logfile. And so since I've been operating under one the whole time (and doing nothing fdifferent) I feel this is an excellent idea Alex. So we will see now. BTW: I noticed you moved Gary's old logfile... :( aww...c'mon I used to be able to check up on it, lemme see ;) j/k.
But seriously this is a really good idea cause if Gary had had that the WHOLE time I was a mod I could prove that I only deleted the one topic and not the many that I'm always being accused of.
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That's why i moved the logfile and i decided to publish it, Trevlac.
I wrote to Gary telling him i was disappointed this time: it's too easy to be a "good mod" if you already know you're logged.
I already had this idea, Gary just gave me the input to implement that: but it was "confidential", something he should not tell around, and expecially not to a new mod.
When i saw you knew about it and i saw you telling DF "i know you deleted various threads", i decided to do this.
Yes, probably i'll make it visible to Mods before the date.
So, just as you did, every mod will be able to see why it can be so useful to have "stored proofs".
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Good idea Alex.
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the truth will be revealed, next time on "the art of charas"!!!!!!!!!!lol:D
sweet idear alex.
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Alex, he only told me 'cause I had the same idea. I suggested it and he said he was already working on it followed by the line: "I am a PHP master. Do you think I wouldn't have thought of that?" And I havn't done anything different than I would have if I weren't being logged. (You can tell because people didn't like me. I'm sure that if I acted like I was being logged that nothing would have cahnged.)
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thing.
Originally posted by Darkfox
I will do some clean-up on some forums,
oldest first, keeping those that are of importance or contribute to charas history.
Yes, we must keep the important parts. Unless we wanna do that whole history-repeats-itself thing.
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As promised here it is:
http://charas-project.net/forum/admin/0_control.html
Almost everything you can see there now was discussed and clarified with mods, so please do not attack with something as "why DF deleted all of those threads without reasons".
If you want to ask something about the actions you see in that file and if you have valid reasons to do so, you're welcome. But NO FLAMES. It will be useful if and only if everyone talk quitely about that. If you want to ask about Mods actions, be OBJECTIVE. I will not accept personal attacks, flames and similar.
If this will happen, i'll close the logfile for public access.
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Wow, first thing I can say when I lightly skimmed it is that it's good reading. So far I can see that darkfox deleted ALOT of threds from a guy named Seth Aechi, but most of them look like repeat threads and stupid useless things that shoudn't have been there so It doesn't seem like he did anything wrong.
In the end, I think I'll just stay safe and not say anything to make anyone hate me ^^ Good job alex.
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Heh, almost all of the file is me pruning the Requests forum. I must have deleted about 750 threads over a year and a half. Took all night.
This forum really needs a prune command...
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i noticed O_o
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Hmm, interesting reading...
whatever happened to Seth Aechi anyway?
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1 word: "Left"
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So, what was our next plan of action after releasing that?
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supposedly people were supposed to comment on it, but aparently not O_o
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People are supposed to comment only if they see something they REALLY don't understand.
The main utility of this file is to have proofs in case of troubles about Mods behaviours, if any.
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WAAAH! Seth Aeci stole the name of my world! WAAH! =P
heck im just surprised cuz one of the worlds in my gamen is called Seth Aecith.
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interesting
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1) It's Seth Aechi and that was off subject.
2) Say a little more than interesting Charaman, people won't know what your talking about otherwise.
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Good. Sensible. I think it'll help.
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OK DF, There has been an action you have made the i really dissaprove of how you went about the situation.
This situation was the resecent post of Kairou's. I wasn't here to see every thing he original posted .... but they way you went about this was wrong and not right. as a mod you know your not suppose to edit post for your enjoyment and this is exactly what you did.
If you were to check the last few actions by DF you will see that he edited Kairou's ... yes mabey they were very ussless post but he shouldn't have edited them to say things like ...... "Im stuiped" and "ohhhh shock therapy yea" .... and there are a few more ... what you should have done in this case was put this **Post was changed due to highly usless info and was not nessassary**
I think this last action you have done DF was very wrong. i am sorry to target you like this but it is somthing i belive should not be left alone.
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Originally posted by Reain_
OK DF, There has been an action you have made the i really dissaprove of how you went about the situation.
This situation was the resecent post of Kairou's. I wasn't here to see every thing he original posted .... but they way you went about this was wrong and not right. as a mod you know your not suppose to edit post for your enjoyment and this is exactly what you did.
If you were to check the last few actions by DF you will see that he edited Kairou's ... yes mabey they were very ussless post but he shouldn't have edited them to say things like ...... "Im stuiped" and "ohhhh shock therapy yea" .... and there are a few more ... what you should have done in this case was put this **Post was changed due to highly usless info and was not nessassary**
I think this last action you have done DF was very wrong. i am sorry to target you like this but it is somthing i belive should not be left alone.
James and I discussed this and we are both in agreement on this issue. I can't think of a single excuse you could muster to justify editing someone's post without due cause and for your personal entertainment. We'd like it if you could clarify this issue for us.
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Ok if anyone is wondering why these are unstickeyed i am doing it because i see the sticky area of all of all as cluttered. tehy can always be restuck if it becomes a problem. im just trying some new stuff. I'll post this in all the ones i unstick to let ppl know what ones i unstuck.
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Listen here, I did it to stop him, he was constantly posting copy and pastes of the home page. I only did it so he would feel it futile. It is a choice of action, it's called ridicule, if i just deleted his threads he would have just posted new ones. He wanted that, but I didn't give what he wanted so edited instead.
I did not do anything really insulting.
If you really must know what was originally in his posts I will explain them here.
1) He posted copies of the home page, past news, everything, filling up and causing serious lag for 56k modem users.
2) He posted text dumps including images in attempt to use up serious bandwidth.
3) He insulted many members in one of them, me at the last of the list.
And my reasons were clear, so if you want to get on my case for it then fine, but know this, I did it under good reasoning, because I knew him and I know what will stop him. So yell at me all you want Reain and Trevlac, but I will not stop doing whatever to keep this forum straight!
I will delete the posts since they have served thier purpose.
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I agree.
I like Jello.
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If mr.Mister agrees, I agree.
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And btw, your only getting on my case about it because he's your friend. And one thing is that you shouldn't let personal feelings get in the way of being a mod, so the one here who isn't doing his job right is you. Please work on that. I did my job, I stopped a ruckus. But you fail to see that, all you are seeing is that you feel I've abused your friend.
I suggest you think about it for a while. I'm not being mean, I'm not being cruel, I'm doing my job. Though it is funny that you or him would be really upset over such pathetic insults, did I call him anything really offensive?
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....Wha? ....err.r... ><*** oh my god. Lookie here, what DF did was perfectly reasonable. He was the only mod around, unlike some. And Reain don't try that bull ''Well I wasn't online cause...'' cause you were, I saw you. You just didn't log on to charas until the Kairou problem was solved. Funny huh? DF knew his weakness and used it to our advantage, so please *rolls eyes* And don't ya'll dare say
''Mid, this isn't any of your concern''
Cause it ''IS'' my business as a member of this forum, just like it's everyone else's business. And in honesty, I think the only reason your taking the defensive is because Kairou is your ''FRIEND'' that's all.
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actually:
1: Reain and I hate Kairou with a passion because he's a self ritchieous queef bag (to quote Reain) and he's NOT our friend anymore.
2: We didn't mean for this to come across as insulting or mean or anything beyond inquiring.
3: I apologize if it came across as anything but.
4: I accept your reasoning on this DF. It's logically solid.
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anyway, about the KaiRou issue, we should seriously consider an IP ban. considering he's on everyone's bad side, he's childish, he left, came back for forgiveness, less than a month later this happens! you see where I'm coming from?
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Ip bans are basically useless. A change of ip is easy for anyone with a dynamic IP. All they do is unplug and replug their modem and they have a different IP.
A plain old user ban would be a little more effective because then he has to go to all the trouble of making a new account and then using that. More work then unplug replug.
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agree. something drastic must be done about this horrificly spiced cockroach soup pest that tries to call himself Kairou...I mean...er...we're not supposed to call each other names are we?
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Hmmmmm......... I just deleted some of his old threads, most containing BMPs and others were spam. As well as his broken promise to leave.
Btw... whats this crap about being an executioner Trev, I don't think I approve of it, it don't sound modlike at all. If your going to go outlaw as you said in our convo last night, I'm going to have to take action, because I am not going to let you turn all of all into a warzone, no way.
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Ok I sorry if you took this the wrong way DF.
Your right kairou is my friend so what thats not why im yelling, even if you if you did it to the person i hate most i would still be mad at this....... it's not that they were insults as much it's that they were things like "im stupid how about you?" type things just so a few people would laugh .... i understand they were unnessasary post and needed to be edited ...... but you could have just put "this post was edited because it contained unneeded content" <--- like every mod here should ...... not stuff that you want to make up and make him like a puppet.
and speaking of personal matters gettin in the way DF i do think that you to have done this before
and as for trevlac editing his profile to say i lock every thing i don't blame him ... besides that shouldn't matter any way ...... and remember DF u just told me what is said in aim or im's shouldn't be used in charas ... so davis saying he has gone mad should not matter here. But i don't blame trevlac for putting all that in his pro because he is blamed for it any way so whats the big deal.
EDIT: ok well DF i think i know why every one is upset at me and thats cuz i didn't yell at davis either for doing it to .. im very sorry but i just found that davis too has done what you did and i dissaprove of his actions just as well .......
http://charas-project.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=5920&forumid=12&catid=6 <----- right here is evidence that you both had edited Kairous post with things that could be said that you did to get a laugh .... yes even so if they were un needed post you simply should have said ..... "edited due to un needed content" ......... the edits you to did are unnessasary for the words you put ...... all mods have to follow rules and exceptions should be made for no one ... i don't care who's post it was if it was kairous, mine, the king of scoot land .... putting edits such as "i fell pretty oh so pretty" and "im hungy" or "im stupid" is not needed ......... "edited due to un needed content"
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No everybody is upset with you for jumping on my case in this matter, you weren't there, there was really no time to think and add little "Was edited due to this...".
I don't need to be trolled, and unless you want to be trolled yourself then you should watch how you push your weight around. Your the only one snapping at me, nobody else is, just you.
And I'm certain I took it the right way, I read remember? I'm not some monkey at a keyboard.
Try getting your nose out of that logfile and actually begin looking around. I'm serious, it seems like you've been just sitting there hitting refresh just waiting for somthing to bring up. That is -NOT- cool, that is -NOT- right, and that will definetly not give you the full story, or even part of it for that matter.
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I prefer cleaning my rooms, than locking my doors....< Allegorical
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Reain you missed my point entirely. As I think everyone else may have.
The point is, I railed on DF about it and decided that it wasn't SO bad. He could have put what you said to put but nay, he did not. So, I left an example showing the combination of yours and DF's solutions. Reain, it seems, you don't even want to comprimise? This situation could be totally ignored if there was a comprimise.