Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: DragonBlaze on February 23, 2005, 01:01:17 AM
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I was just wondering what your opinions are on using a CBS or DBS in rm2k/3. So heres the question:
Is a CBS that dosen't run quite as good as the DBS, better to use than the DBS. The CBS would works just fine, but hardly any are better than the DBS since they are made with events in rm2k/3, and the dbs is made with an actual script.
Please post why you chose what you did :)
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I'd say CBS even though I use DBS.
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i say it dosent matter cus its what YOU think, it depends on the game mostly i think, a different game would have to be different it its own ways, the battle could be one way its different
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It may sound dumb, but what are DBS and CBS again, all I know is that there fighting systems.
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Personally I am acti-CBS because it is just a "wannabe" thing generated by a series of events. Really a waste of time since the main goal in makeing an RPG is not some flashy system but a storyline. People who look at the system over the story are not getting the whole picture. So I go with DBS, since a CBS is totally unneccesary. Utterly useless in the longrun.
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Personally I am acti-CBS because it is just a "wannabe" thing generated by a series of events. Really a waste of time since the main goal in makeing an RPG is not some flashy system but a storyline. People who look at the system over the story are not getting the whole picture. So I go with DBS, since a CBS is totally unneccesary. Utterly useless in the longrun.
BUT CBS are good to put in if it goes with the game, having extra stuff is quite good to put in if it mixes with the storyline, it all depends with the game really,
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I agree with WD. CBS is good but many people (Like me) Don't know enough about the maker, or simply don't have the time, to create a CBS. You can't put down a game just because of that.
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Rarely the case though White. I've seen people give a shot at a CBS just for the sake of "Looking cool". Relatively bad reasoning.
As for making a FF1-6 style CBS in RM2K: Useless in many aspects since RM2K3 already emulates it for the most part.
Zelda Top View Style: There is a freeware project called Open Legends (Formerly Open Zelda) that is specifically designed to generate this more effeciently, it supports multiple forms of music format (Including s3m I believe), no frame limit, entity based scripting language, 360 degree movement (meaning you can have somthing move in a full circle and not jus a diamond or a square). Try looking it up, it's really unique and very cool and is still an ongoing project.
However I have some problems with all the standard RPG makers thusfar (RM95, RM2K/3, RMXP): "Frozen" enemies, frame limits, no entity based scripting language as an advanced way of adding in events or monsters, only 8 directions, and only 4 are usable without using a common event (up, down, left, and right). RMXP's "Ruby script" was a cheap attempt to emulate a real script like C++ or VC which would have been much better, but I guess they wanted to do this in the least cost effective way... oh well. I do not however disagree that the RMs are the most user friendly RPG makeing tools on the net that I know of, but they leave things to be desired for makeing a game that is closer to a GBA or SNES or PSX (non-3D) rpg.
But anyways, a CBS is more betterly done in a free enviroment rather than that of the restrictive RPG Makers. Free enviroments are sadly hard to come by, I've been looking for a sideview platformer maker that is scriptable for Kitsune Saga: Kiki Story (So I can have actual text and such)
Edit: But I'm not picky, I use what I get, but I do prefer a more modable enviroment, I really like the Unreal series for this since all it takes is scipting knowlege and then you can make just about anything happen, given that you have the required models and effects.
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I have to say it's more interesting with a CBS, I've got pretty tired on the DBS.
And it's a lot more interesting with a cool CBS, full of new features in it and such. A lot can be done with the DBS as well, but no new systems though.
It's CBS all the way!
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full of new features in it and such.
Though not true features, emulated ones that are done with an arrangement of events.
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Anyone gonna awnser my question?
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emulated ones that are done with an arrangement of events.
These are CBS.
The DBS is the default battle system. Like RM2Ks is the FPV, and RM2k3's is the sideview style.
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Ah, so DBS are the standard and CBS are the home-made ones.
Well CBS then
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I heard this saying once, well actually I read it off a poster this morning, but it went like this: "One would not crawl, when one has the ability to soar"
I use a cbs in my game cuz I can, I'm not content using work that isn't mine, when i have the abilty to make my own. I feel it adds a more unique and personal feeling to my game when I use my own work. :)
But its nice to hear everyones opinions :)
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But wouldn't it still be using another's work since they coded the events you use in the so-called CBS? I would rather code my own, freely, without some blocky event based thing.
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Originally posted by Darkfox
Though not true features, emulated ones that are done with an arrangement of events.
In what sense are they "emulated"? What makes the DBS any less "true" than a CBS?
Same with the ruby script thing. Why isn't ruby a "Real" script? Because it's easier to learn?
I can't pick one. I've used both in projects before.
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Well I'd rather freely script a battle system as well, but rm2k3 dosen't support it :(. I can still make my own layout, and add my own touches to it though with rm2k3's event scripting.
When i move to rmxp though, I'm really going to enjoy the ruby scripting system, but untill I finish my game I'll have to settle with rm2k3's event scripting.
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Ruby Script is not a true script, it is more like INI based arrangement of preprogrammed values like most of the Command and Conquer games, a true script would have been more complicated and not as limited. Ruby Script was used as an eyecatcher so they could increase sales in Japan. If it was successful or not, I dunno, but what I do know is that they could have made RMXP much better but fell short.
Emulated meaning that the events are arranged by the "creator" to make what appears to be an actual fight system yet to the trained eye would see what it really is. Like one type merely used charsets and an image for the boss to look like a FF1-6 system. That became obsolete after RM2K3's arrival.
When i move to rmxp though, I'm really going to enjoy the ruby scripting system
You may be disappointed... many were.
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It's a tough descision, and depends on the type of CBS you use. The DBS can provide a lot of customization, especially if you can properly manipulate the behaviour characteristics of the monsters in conjunction to the character stats and such. I find the DBS MUCH more customizable than a CBS, therefore, what I am doing is having the random battles in my game CBS, and the bosses DBS. However, the two will most likely be closely related, so when you get to the boss with the DBS, you wont be confused because you were used to using a CBS that's completly different.
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I think what it really boils down to is, no one can ever create a "true" CBS using ANY RPGMaker. This reason is simple, RPGMakers are meant to create an RPG and have fun while doing it. Trying to create a CBS may be fun for some, but others may find it boring and redundant. To think you can use an RPGMaker to create a game like Final Fantasy or Seiken Densetsu is like saying you can create a blockbusting Movie with your home video camera.
Shoot for the stars, but remember it's all for fun! :D
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To think you can use an RPGMaker to create a game like Final Fantasy or Seiken Densetsu is like saying you can create a blockbusting Movie with your home video camera.
LOL well put.
Seiken Densetsu, you mean the GB game that was released as Final Fantasy Adventure in US?
Creating a Seiken Densetsu 3 system would be fun. Best chance you have of this is with Open Legends.
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Creating a Seiken Densetsu 3 system would be fun. Best chance you have of this is with Open Legends
It's been done. And was done very well using rm2k
Seiken Densetsu, you mean the GB game that was released as Final Fantasy Adventure in US?
I meant Secret of Mana, but it's all good
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Ruby may not be a "true" script, but dose allow more customization than the event scripting allowed. People who know a true scripting langauge shouldn't use rmxp because rmxp is still based on an event scripting language.
No one can make a perfect game, or even a game that can be compared to profesional games, but we can try our hardest and have fun along the say :)
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As for the CBS/DBS discussion, I think it depends on the game. If you're doing a "normal" RPG like an FF game, then the DBS would suit the game well. If the game was more action-based (platforming, abundant minigames), then an action-based CBS would suit the game more than a normal MBS.
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When your CBS has nothing that the DBS can't do, then you're better off using the DBS. Especially when your CBS is slow as hell. *cough*
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And was done very well using rm2k
Open Legends can still do it better given the codeing time, best part is that it is without the 8 directional limit. I never can see RM2k/3 doing anything nearly at all close to Zelda/Secret of Mana. Btw, Seiken Densetsu 2 is the propper name. Seiken Densetsu was a GB title.
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There seems to be mixing of terms here. Being a programmer that has used all of these engines, I feel I can clarify things slightly.
RM2k, RM2k3, and RMXP all use a scripting system. Commonly referred as the event system. They are simply wrapped into a pretty user interface (UI). But the engine is still following a script.
With RMXP, however, you can go deeper than this. All of the game's underlying code is written with Ruby and that code is directly editable by the creator.
Ruby, C++, and VB are all programming languages. They way they are implemented differs, however. Ruby is an interpreted language, meaning it has loose typing and is ran at startup. C++ is compiled code, meaning it's compiled once and then ran. VB's approach is different depending on the version, so we won't get into that.
It is possible to create a 'real' CBS in RM2k and RM2k3. This should hardly be up for debate. Dragon World has a CBS, as do many other games. A CBS is simply a battle system that isn't the default. How it's implemented varies, though.
Anyways, I feel a CBS is worthwhile ONLY when it does something unique from the DBS. Being able to animate monsters isn't anything special. Being able to change gameplay mechanics is.
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When your CBS has nothing that the DBS can't do, then you're better off using the DBS. Especially when your CBS is slow as hell. *cough*
I was talking about CBS's in general, not mine specifically. Please don't continue our fight into other threads.
And WIP has a good point about the differant scripting languages and stuff :)
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Please don't continue our fight into other threads.
Better yet, stop it FZ. Your acting pathetic, like you gotta keep at it just to "Kick them while they are down", and with little reasoning other than to be annoying.
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I second that. Moving on...
Originally posted by DF
Originally posted by dren
And was done very well using rm2k
Open Legends can still do it better given the codeing time, best part is that it is without the 8 directional limit. I never can see RM2k/3 doing anything nearly at all close to Zelda/Secret of Mana. Btw, Seiken Densetsu 2 is the propper name. Seiken Densetsu was a GB title.
You're prolly right... nope, you are right. scripting and all that crap that involves C+,C-, C++--+-+----... w/a. Is not meant to be done in rm2k/3/XP. When you think about it, rm2k/3/XP is just a game that is used to make money(Except they're not making money
:D lol)
To make a "true" CBS or any other system with the same results you see on video games now a days, you'd have to create the entire's game's script yourself from C++, or VB, or w/a kinda scripting there is out there that you prefer. But I don't think one person would be willing, never mind able, to do that much work. so that's why rm2k/3/XP is created.
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But I don't think one person would be willing
Me and the guys who have made engines like Open Legends and JPlatformer.
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I'm talking one person on their, that's why RPGMakers were made, so ppl with lack of knowledge of scripts(me), and ppl who just can't spend the time or know the ppl who have the know-who. and i said, "don't think"
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I see. You know, speaking of JPlatformer... I should check on it. I haven't checked it's progress in such a long time.
On the subject of game makers, I found that HOTU has a special list for them including open source abandonware which would be fun to play with, though some may require the DosBox emulator. Not saying this as an alternative to RM2K, but it's well worth a look, maybe for some nastalgic fun.