Charas-Project
Off-Topic => Really Old Stuff => Archive => Charas Project Support => Topic started by: Bluhman on January 18, 2010, 02:09:36 AM
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Have you ever wondered why people keep coming to the 'requests' forum for a Charset, and then they get told off that 'you probably can use the Charset generator to create that' by several members? Have you thought that they might've tried it out already, and perhaps were not satisfied with the result?
Our generators are ****. And I definitely don't mean 'The ****', no. They're just plain ****. No offense, but unless you want your characters to look either extremely generic or utterly dilapidated, you're probably much better off just tailoring your custom characters to your needs by learning to sprite properly. You cannot get a good charset without actually learning how to do it yourself, it seems.
Why, now, of all times, do I say this? Simply put, take a look at what people have done for RPG Maker XP: They created a very elaborate and consistent charset generator, and the results are beautiful. Unless you try and make the parts conflict on purpose, you can make some truly inspiring charsets. Just try it for yourself. (http://www.geocities.jp/kurororo4/looseleaf/)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/Crud.png) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/CSETotherGEN.png)
Now, compare this to what our charaset generators can make. The number of what different charset parts genuinely work together is seriously limited. Why? There are two main limiting factors that prevent people from making charsets that look seriously awesome. First problem is that it seems nobody can decide which style to truly work on. Some items in our charset generator have black outlines. Other have colored outlines. Some use pillow shading, others have light coming from above (as it should). If you put the parts together, you're probably not going to get something that looks wonderful. Really.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/17qtlu.png)
The next problem is definitely quality control. I'm sorry, no matter how economic you think you're being, you cannot simply MSPaint two black outlines onto the side of a character's head, fill them with solid color, and call it 'elf ears'. You cannot simply paint white blobs onto a default head and call it 'boredface'. You cannot take a default body outline and pillowshade it from left to right with two different-colored gradients and say that it's a 'Bicolor spacesuit'. Spacesuits are bulky. ****, why would you wear a Bi-colored space suit like that, anyway? It would make for a terrible superhero costume, and most certainly a terrible spacesuit... Anyway, If you want it to look good, you need to add stuff like shading, and not pillow-shading, goddammit. You also probably shouldn't just rip parts from other SNES games and try and fit them onto the default template... Because, you know, SNES games don't use RTP dimensions? That's real smart of you. Aside from shoddy shading and wretched ripping, another sub-problem dealing with quality control is correct alignment of parts. Now, take this with a grain of salt, but if you can't take the time to import your resources into something like GIMP, or Paintshop, or hell, even MSPaint again, to paste the part you've created over a template body and check that you positioned it right, you should not be uploading it. I really think the Charset generator has a serious quality control issue. Why are there different-shaped bodies all under the 'Charset-medium' category, when less than a tenth of the accessories will work with the body, huh? For example, the 'charas-male-prettycolor' body, by sephinaopal, is shaded GREAT, but I mean, its proportions are all off. Sorry, but how the hell are you even supposed to use this body with any sort of clothing? What the hell were you expecting? Hell, there's a daft_punk SUIT under the head category that should clearly be under the clothing one. That is just shocking. For pete sake, people, take some time to check the stuff being uploaded!!
There is more than one way to skin a cat. This is no exception, because the charset generator is also a cat, clearly. There would be two ways to go about solving every problem I forsee currently with the Charset generator (and for that matter, probably all the other generators as well.) The first way would be to increase the quality control of submitted generator resources, basically cranking it up to 11. If anything doesn't seem to work correctly, get rid of it. Send, maybe, an e-mail to the resource creator and tell them how they messed up, and how they might be able to fix the part to get it looking better on an orthodox template. This would obviously encourage people to work harder and better to make quality resources for the generators, and discourage people who have no talent whatsoever. However, it might also turn off some skilled spriters who might've been capable of making some very pretty resources, so we might want to keep our quality control to a happy medium if we are to adopt this remedy method.
The other method, however, is the extremist method; one that I'd like to take, personally. That would be to simply start over from scratch. Now, logically, it should be sensible to keep the current generator in place, just in case some people might still feel nostalgic or something, or might actually like the options given by the old generator. I think, however, that the new options that my proposed system offers will encourage some people to work on charsets a bit more innovatively, and overall produce charasets and other resources that are a lot more uniform, and appealing.
So, what do we do with this new system? Overall, it will have much different features; some drastically different settings and options, to say the least. Now, compare the old part layout:
-Body
-Head
-Dress
-Hair
-Accessories
...To this proposed one:
-Head
-Torso
-Arms
-Legs
Now, you might think that having less categories would be worse for the generator's effectiveness. Of course, what I forgot to put in there was sub-categories.
-Head
--Eyes
--Skin tone
--Hair
--Accessories (Hats, helms, masks, beards, makeup)
-Torso
--Low-layer (Tight shirts, T-shirts)
--Mid-layer (Jackets, tunics, blazers)
--Upper-layer (Armor, robes)
--Accessories (Capes, sheaths, belts)
-Arms
--Shoulders
--Arms (Sleeves and armor? See the VX char generator for an example of what I'm talking about.)
--Hands
--Accessories (Weapons?)
-Legs
--Low-layer (Tights, underpants, shorts)
--Mid-layer (Robe bottoms (might be consolidated into the torso part...) Pants, Armor greaves, skirts)
--Shoes
As you can see from the expanded categories, this new generator will have a LOT of flexibility. And with proper quality control, some great charset parts can be created for generation purposes.
Now, you might be wondering, “Where's the body selection?” Don't you think being able to choose body shape is a bit obsolete? Think about it. The body option in the charas generator just encourages people to make different-shaped bodies for the same category of character type. This is fine and all when you think about it at a glance; a male body and female body have overall similar proportions; similar height, bone structure, et cetera. Oh, wait, except none of the male clothes work properly on female bodies. And likewise, none of the male parts work on female ones (that's what she said lol). SO WHY ARE THEY IN THE SAME CATEGORY IF THEY'RE JUST ABOUT COMPLETELY INCOMPATABLE?
Instead we have the Skin Tone option under the head category. This will encourage people to make, instead of completely different body shapes, to simply make recolors of the same body. This way, we can have more unique looking characters, while also keeping order with an identical body shape throughout. Guaranteed, each piece of clothing, and each item will fit properly in the charas hand, on their head, and over their bosom.
Now, alone, this whole deal of new classification for each part and such won't really improve quality unless the quality control is done well. In general, what needs to be done is a decision on the overall style we want to go with; maybe Mac & Blue, perhaps? (I'd personally kill to have a M&B charset generator style) An option for the good old classic RTP style? Keep note that I'm talking less about the general shape of the pieces, but instead the shading and feel of them. Just look at a default RTP set next to a M&B one:
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/hero1.png)(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/chara07.png)
There is a clear difference; the RTP uses a pretty cartoony, bright, and sharpened coloring scheme, with fairly bold outlines, bright colors, and gaudy underlying designs. The M&B sets use a subdued color scheme, have much softer and seamless outlines, and have designs that are a bit more reminiscent of medieval Europe than crazy fantasy land. (and if I remember correctly, the RTP and M&B sets actually use the same pallete, so it's just more effective use of the same resources, so to say.)
Now, think about how parts from both of those sets would look together. It could be done, since the two share palletes, after all. Would it work? Certainly. The two have a generally identical sense of proportions for their charets. Would it look GOOD, though? This is a bit more iffy.
How would one get started? The first step would be to make some good body templates. Just looking at various charsets in the RTP and M&B sets, I can single out a few bodytypes we could have here:
-Male-Standard
-Female-Standard
-Male-Large (Think the RTP pirate, for example)
-Male-Taller (Take the standard, make him 1 pixel taller)
-Female-Taller (Same as male, but for the female body.)
-Male-Fat (Think the RTP fat guy)
-Male-Bodybuilder (The body of the one muscled guy in the Mac & Blue sets)
-Kid (Pretty self-explanatory. Might warrant a separation into male and female?)
Just in case there's going to be a lot of skin on a generated chara, the template should be shaded WELL. It shouldn't just have two colors for the entirety of the body, like the current template bodies. Just take a look at some shading examples on some of the less clothed characters in the various sets I've got here for perhaps a reference. Or just go with your gut. Do what looks good... Though, there's a high propensity this will be the part of the project I'll contribute.
What can possibly be done for the different resources is to cut off and reattach different parts of charasets (that fit the proper dimensions) onto the template, and modify them until they can form a proper article of clothing. For example, you see that one NPC is wearing a long-sleeved blazer underneath their sweater vest. This blazer could make for a very fine low-layer torso item! However, the central part of the blazer has been painted over by the original spriter with the sweater vest the original artist put there! What to do? Simple. Just edit in the proper colors in place of the area that covers up the blazer partially. With proper modification, a lot of different parts can be singled out.
And of course, if you think that you can make custom parts that match up well with the overall style the generator is going for, then all the power to you, mate!
For some parts that don't need to be re-proportioned to fit the body, a simple repositioning can be enough to adjust a part to fit onto another body type.
Despite what this might sound like, I'm not suggesting a complete replacement of the Charset generator. That would be silly; the current one has a plethora of diamonds-in-the-rough that we could use for a new generator, and besides, I think a lot of people would be angry if we just decided to start over when we've been going strong for the past 8 years or so. Despite this, a new, more effective system, updated with some of the new artistic talent we've got here could really prove to make a highly effective character set generator for those who can't draw. Without the pesky problems of inconsistent art style or wonky positioning to get in peoples' way, it can be highly probable to make a orderly, but flexible character set generator.
(If this is what the whole off-line charaset generator is about, I'm gonna bang my head into oblivion for wasting an hour writing this thing.)
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I can't really say anything except for "I agree".
The Generator's don't really have that much good stuff in them, and even then the stuff that works looks inconsistent.
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(If this is what the whole off-line charaset generator is about, I'm gonna bang my head into oblivion for wasting an hour writing this thing.)
Your head is safe.
I agree, except who will be willing to do all these? That might be a lot of work even for a big group of us.
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I said that I would get to work... Um, eventually... On body templates. After one gets finished, I think it'll be pretty smooth sailing from there; all it will be is adjusting existing parts and accessories to conform to the created body templates, and if you have any spriting experience at all, I think it can be quite easy to do.
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I think if RTP and Mac and Blue styles would be in the same category to label them?
A section where it would suggest recommended combinations based on how other people have used the generator could be interesting as well. I think you are right, and that the generators need a facelift... or er... a new face. I like this. I can try and help out if I can.
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Just a bit of a sample:
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/NewTemplateSample.png)
The one on the left is the old template chara, while the right is the new one. It's pretty crude right now, but it shows certainly some sophistication; outlines are now slightly more consistently colored (brown and black, instead of brown, black, and grey). Proportions have been changed heavily, and were based off of the shapes of the RTP thief and monk charsets. Among some of the changes are:
- Higher armpits
- More integrated neck and shoulders. Shading still keeps the effect of having a neck, though.
- Slightly higher crotch; more definition.
- Shorter overall
- Slimmer torso
- Eyesockets now present. Given that a few eye designs aren't 2 by 3 pixels, however, this might be a mistake.
What needs work:
- Might want to make the legs slimmer. It's really hard to tell if I want to do that, though, since every single damn RTP male wears hammer pants.
- More intricate shading will be needed.
- Other poses for directions other than forward.
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It almost look like his arms go into his head, but that might just be me. I think the legs could be skinnier as well. The shading is a lot better then the current.
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Trust me; It's based off of RTP proportions to the tee. When it's clothed, it looks a lot better.
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Probably. How many skin tones do you have in your plan anyway?
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It has no neck!
Anyway, I think our generators would be fine if we didnt accept every single submission. If we had some quality control and only accepted what looks good, it would be awesome.
But I like the idea of having many different styles on the generator.
You should also remove the eyesockets, because... If the eyes are the regular size, it will make it so you cant see the eye sockets. If they arent, it will look bad.
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If there is a neck, it looks like he's hunched over way too much. I would definitely move the head back up.
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I made a suggestion like this a few months ago but was told it would be too complicated to reprogram it.
The main thing with a brand-new generator is this: We must keep the riff-raff out. There's a lot of very low-quality items that completely clutter the current generator. There are a few people on this forum who have enough of an eye for shading, color, and animation to make good-quality items for the generator, but we can't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry pooping out amazing levitating two-color swords that nobody's going to want to use. Or if we do, we just need to have some people available to correct mistakes and keep it up to spead with the rest of the generator.
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Agree on the people on staff to fix things idea. That way regular users can have the luxury of uploading, but it won't be complete crap when it makes it to the generators. Heck, I could probably help in that respect. =P
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If there is a neck, it looks like he's hunched over way too much. I would definitely move the head back up.
Well, then, enterbrain clearly wanted their entire cast to be hunchbacks.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/NewTemplateSampleB.png)
(Discount the blue haired guy on the far right. He would fall under the 'taller' category, since his head is positioned a pixel higher.)
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We don't have to ape what Enterbrain does. Let's make it our own.
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I made a suggestion like this a few months ago but was told it would be too complicated to reprogram it.
The main thing with a brand-new generator is this: We must keep the riff-raff out. There's a lot of very low-quality items that completely clutter the current generator. There are a few people on this forum who have enough of an eye for shading, color, and animation to make good-quality items for the generator, but we can't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry pooping out amazing levitating two-color swords that nobody's going to want to use. Or if we do, we just need to have some people available to correct mistakes and keep it up to spead with the rest of the generator.
Just have someone to approve the stuff first. Like the CR.
Btw, I may or may not finish a nice charset template and make a bunch of resources for it.
I will more likely not finish it.
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We don't have to ape what Enterbrain does. Let's make it our own.
Well, okay, but 90 percent of the RTP and M&B clothing pieces fit to the shape that was created.
Let's think about the situation this way; the one I created is sort of a perspective drawing of the charset; a view of a person from a higher angle would probably not show off their neck very well. The current charaset template might have a nice, prominent neck... But where's its chin? Heck, if you place some of the clothing items on the current template, their head appears to be way too separated from the body.
And heck, look at the 2nd example I posted. Do they look all that hunched over to you?
How many skin tones do you have in your plan anyway?
People can create any skin tone they want, as long as it's distant enough from another skin tone. We probably should have, at most, two of each primary color (at most, two oranges, two blues, two greens, etc.) A lot of facial accessories I could imagine relying on skin tone to apply a degree of color to themselves (eyes, scars, hair, etc), but as a rule of thumb, people can generally make skin tones first, and then gradually others (or the same person who made the new tone), can recolor the other skin-based accessories to match it.
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I think it would be better having regular skin tones. You know, really white, white, tan, black, pretty damn black.
People can recolor their own wacky skin tones themselves if its needed X)
Or maybe have the normal ones, and some more common crazy ones (green for example, because orcs are kinda common. Maybe gray because people like to make some weird gray characters. And a couple more)
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Yeah, the normal skin tones are a given. We're obviously going to have a plethora more of them.
Anyways, here's the completed charset for Male-Normal.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/TemplateWkshtCompletion.png)
Tweaks that probably will be made:
-Thin out the legs
-Shade better
-Tweak head size?
Some tweaks that were made to the side pose:
- Head, ear, and jaw much better defined
- Arm and leg in alignment; straighter stance
- Body is a little slimmer
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Can we go with a dark brown outline instead of a straight black? I think it'd look less toonish.
And what's with the dark spot on his lower back? Here, I'll just make a template of how I'd do it to illustrate my little nitpicks.
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Yeah, that's most possibly going to change (since all I did was use an extra skin color for shading.) Probably don't want it too bright, though.
And the dark spot on the lower back is supposed to be some sort of back-arch shading; somewhat a simulation of the crease most people have down the center of their back. It's probably a bit too low.
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Can we go with a dark brown outline instead of a straight black? I think it'd look less toonish.
I second that.
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Actually now that I open it in Idraw, it is a dark brown. Just a very dark dark brown.
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So just make it a little lighter. :P
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Silence, little one! I'm doing it.
Edit: Okay, here's Bluhman's version with several tweaks, mainly to the back-facing angle. I like the old template, but I just wanted to add some minor improvements. I'd still be okay with just using his version...I think it'd look a lot better with clothes and hair.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/template-1.png)
The sideways-facing head still looks a little square, but I can't figure out how to fix it while still having it look realistic. Again, if you add hair, you won't even notice it.
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Well, then, enterbrain clearly wanted their entire cast to be hunchbacks.
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/NewTemplateSampleB.png)
(Discount the blue haired guy on the far right. He would fall under the 'taller' category, since his head is positioned a pixel higher.)
Note that all those people are wearing clothes. Not to mention I would think that err-ing on the side of less body would be more permissive to clothes than having more body that needs to be covered up.
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That's true. In fact, that pretty much is the central dilemma that's surrounding my decision on whether to make the legs thinner or not. (Seriously, those pants are huge. If you actually look at the guy on far right, he actually has feet that are only 2 pixels wide instead of 3 like the rest. I still can't tell whether the feet should actually be that size, or if it's a stylistic choice due to the fact he's probably supposed to be a bishounen or something other.) However, the thief charset, right next to the custom template, is wearing a tight shirt, so the shoulder dimensions should resemble that, pretty much.
We should keep a consistent height. Since that's what valiere did in her Charset, this is pretty good so far. Only problem, and it's a extremely small one, is that the arms are a pixel longer on the side pose. On RTP size samples, the arms go down straight, and curvature to the back is applied by means of baggy clothing.
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I see what you mean. I made them a pixel longer in the middle side-facing pose because I thought it'd look weird in the walking animation if I didn't. I'll change it back and see how it animates.
Edit: Yeah, it definitely looks weird. Like he's doing some kind of dance. Maybe if I make the arms longer in the front- and back-facing angles.
Thoughts on this? Too monkeylike?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/template-2.png)
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Yeah, the arms are now longer than the legs on the front and back poses. That's definitely not good.
The effect isn't present on the side poses, but that's only because we can't exactly see how long the legs are in relation to the rest of the body.
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(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/template-4.png)
This should fix it.
Edit: I noticed some weird shading spots and fixed them, so download this again if you got template-3. Should be template-4.
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(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/template-4.png)
This should fix it.
Edit: I noticed some weird shading spots and fixed them, so download this again if you got template-3. Should be template-4.
Alright. I think this will do just excellently. Making the legs slimmer was pretty much accomplished by some creative shading here. Probably the only thing I'd want to do is take a pixel off the ankle, since I think that looked alright on the 1st complete template. (EDIT: Nope. I decided against that.)
(EDIT2: Ok, I did fix one thing; the armpit level was jumping around as the walk animation played through. That's now fixed.)
I'll get started on the very simple 'Taller' template, and perhaps the female equivalents.
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(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/template-5FINAL.png) (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a11/Bluhman/RPG%20Stuff/template-4FEM.png)
Alrighty then. The two basic body forms are pretty much complete. Thank goodness there are so many scantily clad women in the RTP sets; the Female Pirate char-set made a worthy base for this template.
Some females in the char-sets like to have this girly "hold your hands out to the side" thing going on, which is present in the wierd red-bikini girl charset, for example. Something like that would make an ideal hand accessory for females, simply using the setting to move the hands out from the body a pixel.
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Yeah, that looks good.
Maybe we can consider making the hands-out-to-the-side female version an alternative template and maybe just some dresses and "sexy" outfits for it, because only princesses and...well, the Enterbrain equivalent of whores seem to do that.
Since the males have that "oversized" template, it'd make it even.
But it may also be wise to begin making accessories for the templates we already have. These will be the two most useful templates in the lot, and it'll take a long time to make enough stuff for them that they're worth updating the generator with. But it's your call.
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We should make some fat people as well. No skinny people though... Those usually look awful.
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I just realized that in Lucas's sig I'm holding hands with Alex.
Those do look damn good though.
We're definitely out to an awesome start.
I'm starting to feel weird about basically joining a community centered around spriting and art and having almost no experience in either.
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I just realized that in Lucas's sig I'm holding hands with Alex.
Those do look damn good though.
We're definitely out to an awesome start.
I'm starting to feel weird about basically joining a community centered around spriting and art and having almost no experience in either.
You're only holding hands with alex because you're at the end of the line and the image loops! In the original, you were the furthest from Alex! Wahahahaaa!!
I didn't know **** about spriting before I joined Charas. A lot of other folks here also aren't that great at sprites, so you're pretty much normal, and that is nothing to be ashamed of.
Anyways, I'll just let some people take a shot at creating some accessories for the two current templates. Remember: this new generator would probably work best if it utilizes a lot of separate layers; if you want to make an outfit, consider the components that go into making it. If you haven't already, try this generator out to get an idea of what I mean. (http://www.geocities.jp/kurororo4/looseleaf/)
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I'm starting to feel weird about basically joining a community centered around spriting and art and having almost no experience in either.
I can't sprite, I can't make music, I'm not working on a game and never completed any. I have many ideas but they'll probably never be used. So you're not that bad.
D'you think it would be a good idea to separate pants and shirts? That way there'll be no "Oh nice shirt but ugly pants" or the invert. Or maybe that would take too long... dunno, just a little suggestion.
Oh and the sprites look good so far.
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I can't sprite, I can't make music, I'm not working on a game and never completed any. I have many ideas but they'll probably never be used. So you're not that bad.
What? You can definitely sprite. Unless you're simply referring to an inability to make them from scratch, in which case you're not alone.
D'you think it would be a good idea to separate pants and shirts? That way there'll be no "Oh nice shirt but ugly pants" or the invert. Or maybe that would take too long... dunno, just a little suggestion.
That's pretty much precisely what I'm suggesting. This project is going to make character generation very modular.
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I have another suggestion. Let's separate clothing and such into categories such as Medieval, Modern, Steampunk, etc. That way people who don't have time to pour through the list looking for a nice matching top will have life a little easier.
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I have another suggestion. Let's separate clothing and such into categories such as Medieval, Modern, Steampunk, etc. That way people who don't have time to pour through the list looking for a nice matching top will have life a little easier.
That's a pretty good idea.
'Universal' would also be a good category; stuff like basic shirts and pants we would not want people hopelessly scurrying through all the different categories looking for.
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Make sure things from different categories can be mixed. So if I want steampunk shirt and medieval pants for some reason, I can have it.
Maybe have stuff in multiple categories, and a checkbox to see what category you're looking at. So I could check "Medieval" and "Shirt" and for some armor, or "Steampunk" and "Accessories" for goggles.
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I agree with the cracked out turtle.
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Double Agree. And I agree about what Lucas is saying.
I think I'm going to attempt some clothing now. =P Weeee
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Make sure things from different categories can be mixed. So if I want steampunk shirt and medieval pants for some reason, I can have it.
Maybe have stuff in multiple categories, and a checkbox to see what category you're looking at. So I could check "Medieval" and "Shirt" and for some armor, or "Steampunk" and "Accessories" for goggles.
Yeah, obviously. Omitting the ability to mix different categories would defeat the purpose of the 'Universal' one. :P
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Glad to see that this actually seems to be going somewhere unlike last time. Wish I could help but I still suck at shading. When I get better I'll contribute something that isnt some type of tooth pick sword.
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I'll start us out with some generic long hair for the female sprite, in 11 fruity flavors.
I just ran the original through photoshop hue tweaking to change the colors, so let me know if any look a little off.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairRed.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBlk.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBln1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBln2.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBlu.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBrw.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairGrn.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairGry.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairMga.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairPrp.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairWht.png
I guess I'll do the rest of the hair.
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I'll start us out with some generic long hair for the female sprite, in 11 fruity flavors.
I just ran the original through photoshop hue tweaking to change the colors, so let me know if any look a little off.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairRed.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBlk.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBln1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBln2.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBlu.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBrw.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairGrn.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairGry.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairMga.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairPrp.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairWht.png
I guess I'll do the rest of the hair.
Very nice work.
Tried it out on the female template. It makes the head look a bit tall to me. Might want to adjust it so that it's a pixel lower.
EDIT: Another problem that will most likely prove to be the scourge of countless resources; shading! If you apply this part to the female template, the shading isn't that realistic; the place where the hair and head join should be appropriately shaded, yes? Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do, unless we implement an elaborate system that can somehow shade covered areas for us, perhaps separate uploaded images that take up skin color? Maaaybe?
After I'm done writing essays and crap, I'll get to making some of my own resources.
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Tip: Open the template on photoshop
Make a new layer
Draw what you are doing on top of the template so you can see how its supposed to look when used
Save just the layer with the thing you did.
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Very nice work.
Tried it out on the female template. It makes the head look a bit tall to me. Might want to adjust it so that it's a pixel lower.
EDIT: Another problem that will most likely prove to be the scourge of countless resources; shading! If you apply this part to the female template, the shading isn't that realistic; the place where the hair and head join should be appropriately shaded, yes? Unfortunately, there isn't much we can do, unless we implement an elaborate system that can somehow shade covered areas for us, perhaps separate uploaded images that take up skin color? Maaaybe?
After I'm done writing essays and crap, I'll get to making some of my own resources.
I thought about this, and there's only two other solutions other than what you suggested: one, we make a new category for hair-face shading and hope people don't get overwhelmed by the complexity of our generator; or two, we simply put a generic black shadow under the hair.
And I also considered the hair was too tall, but I thought this looked best; I'll recheck it when I get back from class.
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Alright, let's see what I can do.
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Anything I can contribute? Maybe some of my custom/edited hair sets that I made for the Patch could work here?
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Is this better, Bluhman?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairRedb.png)
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Yeah, that seems to work pretty well.
Alright, I got a plan to make this work:
1. Take the template charset into a layer-based image editor; GIMP, photoshop, paintshop, whatever.
2. Paste your hair part onto the template.
3. Create a new layer. On this layer, do shading work to the template to simulate the shading of the skin beneath the hair.
4. Single out this new layer, give it an opaque background, and save it as a separate image.
What you have just created is a shading mask. these masks are uploaded with high-quality parts, and will assume coloration similar to the underlying skin. Parts lacking a shading mask will initially look flat, but as time goes on, shading masks can be made for a wide variety of parts, and can be recolored to match the whole available spectrum of skin colors.
Advantage: Makes for less flat-looking charsets.
Disadvantage: Will make a lot of new and tedious work for recolorers if they plan to upload a new skin tone.
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Here's the rest of the fixed longer female hair, along with some short, generic male hair.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairRedb-1.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBln1b.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBln2b.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBrw1b.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBrw2b.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBlkb.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairGryb.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairWhtb.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairGrnb.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairPrpb.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairMgab.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/LongHairBlub.png
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBlu.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBln.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBrw.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairRed.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairPrp.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairMga.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairGrn.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBlk.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairGry.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairWht.png
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Nice. But I feel that black needs more contrast. Maybe make the highlights more of a dark brown. That goes for both of them actually.
I also feel that the male hair could benefit from less dithering. This one is not thaat bad, just keep it in mind when making the other ones.
Oh, and I just noticed, most recolors need more contrast and less saturation too. White bieng the one with the bigger need. I'm guessing that all you did was press Ctrl+U on photoshop. A good idea is to, after you do that, go to Image>Adjustments>Brightness/Contrast and then play with it til it looks better.
Even though I think it wouldn't hurt if you recolored it by hand, changing each color individually. Like that blue hair. You could have given the highlights a bit of green to make it look better, like the RTP and most blue things do. But using Ctrl+U, its all blue, and looks a bit meh.
Other than that its pretty good. X]
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Hey Luke, why don't you just pop 'em open in Photoshop and show me how it's done.
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Because you're the one who's supposed to be doing it. :P
Anyway.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1827/imagemrmy.png)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBlu.png)(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairWht.png)
Did this really fast just to show what I mean. I bet you can do better.
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Yeah, those look good. I'll tweak the rest when I'm back from the store.
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(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBlu-1.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBln-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBrw-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairRed-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairPrp-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairMga-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairGrn-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairBlk-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairGry-1.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensHairWht-1.png
These are upped-contrast, but not as upped-contrast as yours. Maybe I'll change 'em later. I think I like your white one more.
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Hey. This is pretty super cool. Much win resides within this topic.
I think I'll contribute. I'm not sure what, though.
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I think it would look even better if you made the colors yourself instead of photoshopping.
And if you like my white one more, feel free to use it. X]
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My two Pence;
The Genny should be in layers, like goddamn Fireworks, instead of individual parts. That way, you can put pants on one layer, another shirt on another, etc., in order to more fully customize a chara. This way, one could also add more detail through more layers.
Pro: Greater use of outfits and accessories.
Con: Moar resources overall, which might slow it down from loading so much.
Why not just make this a downloadable Charas.Ex 2.0?
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I think it would look even better if you made the colors yourself instead of photoshopping.
NOOO THIS INVOLVES MORE WORK
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My two Pence;
The Genny should be in layers, like goddamn Fireworks, instead of individual parts. That way, you can put pants on one layer, another shirt on another, etc., in order to more fully customize a chara. This way, one could also add more detail through more layers.
Pro: Greater use of outfits and accessories.
Con: Moar resources overall, which might slow it down from loading so much.
Isn't this basically the principle my plan was starting from?
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NOOO THIS INVOLVES MORE WORK
But it would look so much better D:
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Yes, but we have lots and lots of graphics to make for this thing.
Okay, a ponytail, kind of a formal one. I'll probably make a messier one later.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailPrp.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailBln.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailBrw.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailMga.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailBlu.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailGrn.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailRed.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailBlk.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailWht.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/PonytailGry.png
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Okay, okay.
Most ponytails are pretty good, but the black one could use more contrast.
Other than that they are all ready to be used though, I guess.
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Fix it then, lazysaurus!
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I started a shirt, but I'm not yet quite convinced on the shading. I might download those m & b sets and study them a little bit, but I'll post here to ask what you guys think.
[spoiler](http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa18/aforgottenlegend/RedShirt.png)[/spoiler]
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I think the shading is alright, just darken the colors up a bit.
But then again, I don't know how to shade.
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It's a little high on the waist too. Might wanna lower it a pixel.
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Opening photoshop takes 5 minutes and I am usually too lazy to upload stuff on photobucket.
But I guess that since it wont get done unless I do it, and a lot of people have black hair... XD
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9489/ponytailblk.png)
And since photoshop was already open... Here's what I think you should do, AFL. Up to you to decide if you want to do it like this or not. I just upped contrast and changed the shading a little. And added a darker color for the outlines.
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6618/afl.png)
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Okay, a tank top for the ladies as well as jeans for him and her.
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopBlk.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopBlu.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopBrw.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopYlw.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopOrn.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopRed.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopGrn.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopTan.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopWht.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopGry.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopPrp.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/TankTopMga.png
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/WomensJeans.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/WomensJeansLight.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/WomensJeansDark.png
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensJeans.png)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensJeansLight.png
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensJeansDark.png
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Thanks lucas. =P I'll get on making the other poses then.
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Shouldnt you make a blue-ish version of the jeans too? Just wondering. x]
I think Im going to do actually do something for this project later today.
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The lighter version's pretty blue.
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A bit, yeah, but I think a version thats really blue could be nice.
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Okay, happy now?
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/MensJeansBlue.png)
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/Serithe/WomensJeansBlue.png)
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Yep, pretty damn happy. :}
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And the project goes dim?
Darn. Looks like I'll just have to delete that Charas 4.0 dir from my computer and work on something else.
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I would have that shirt done, but I was gone for the past 3 days. I didn't really have too much time to work on anything. D= I'll try and finish it before the end of the week.
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If someone does the eyes (Easy, easy.), I'll start working on more stuff.
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Isn't this basically the principle my plan was starting from?
You know, probably, but I didn't really want to read that day. Great minds steal other minds' ideas though, AMMIRIGHT?
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Right.
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How did I miss this topic up until now?!
You guys need anything? I haven't sprited in months, and wont until the end of this month, but I can guarantee I can cook up some basic stuff (basic doesn't mean crappy).
For starters, and I haven't seen the whole topic yet, anyone has started breaking apart the RTP characters?
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We have a template, a shirt, and varying hair styles, as far as I can tell.
We need eyes and clothes/accessories of all kinds.
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Okay, I'll start ripping apart RTPs.
.....
TOMORROW.
To the Bed-Mobile!!
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Yeah, that's kind of a boring but necessary job. Thanks, Grandy.
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I can try and do some simple things, like eyes or accessories. But I'm pretty damn busy with school, work, and blah blah blah. You all know the story. I feel bad Valiere and Bluhman are the only ones so far contributing to this awesome idea of a project. This could breathe some life back into charas. Not to say there is no life, but it seems the vibrant golden days have come and gone... and I'm not even twenty yet.
Uhh... what exactly are you doing Grandy? So I can not do that and waste my time.
Also, my spriting skills are subpar at best, but I think I can manage somethings if I take my time and use the template. You said rips and edits of clothes already existing on RTP and Mac and Blue charasets would be acceptable? Doing that and changing the colors would be preeeeeetty simple. Is there a central place to upload them or just upload them to our individual photobucket accounts?
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if you dudes have any intrest in isometric 2k3 friendly bases, I can rig you one up out of the set Im working on.
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No. Please don't.
That will lead to about 5 threads a day asking "HI I'M NEW HOW DO I USE ISOMOTRIC PICZ ON RPM 2003?!1!"
Even though your stuff is pretty awesome.
And Grandy... Did you forget about doing it? :P
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I wish they would make an RM that used isometric though. It's way easier to make isometric sprites. You only have to make two walking animations and just reverse them for the other directions!
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Well I was thinking it might be too much extra work to do front facing sprites as well as isos. But because isos are about half as much work as front facing, maybe you should consider it? I'm not a spriter so this is just an observation.
the only thing I wonder about is why ppl would want to make iso charasets other than for fun. Unless you know how to use game maker, they won't be of much use to most people. Still an idea I like tho.
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No. Isos are about three [thousand] times harder than regular sprites.
Less sprites? Yes.
Are them as easy to do? Hell no.
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It would be easy if there were some examples provided. Most people can't draw side-facing figures any easier than they can draw 3/4-view figures.
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I definitely assume there would be less graphics for the iso charasets than the front facing charasets, considering there were be less people interested in using them and also, as you say, people might find them more difficult to make graphics for. Still, it'd be an extra edge against the other sites with generators.
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I've been trying to upload some eyes I've made, but for some reason uploads aren't working for me anymore. It's the weirdest, lamest thing. Videos, pictures and audio fail to upload to any site. I've tried imageshack, photobucket, and myspace just sucks, converting everything to jpeg. Which, of course, is one of the few sites that works.
The last thing I managed to upload was a chipset for zuhane. Sorry guys. =\
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Try e-mailing it to someone so they can upload it.
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Anyone want to pony up their email?
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And Grandy... Did you forget about doing it? :P
*playing Brawl, not even bothering to look at Lucas*
Did I forget doing what?
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either way, the bases are compiled and in my gallery thread. use them if you like...or dont
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Here we go, fixed my internet. I haven't done anything since the day I said I would when I just made some things in a couple minutes.
Dark Green
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/drenrin2120/Charas%20Gen%20Res/EyesDarkGreen.jpg)
Green
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/drenrin2120/Charas%20Gen%20Res/EyesGreen.png)
Hazel
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/drenrin2120/Charas%20Gen%20Res/EyesHazel.png)
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JPG's!? What are you thinking?
At least the 1st one is a JPeg. Might want to fix that.
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Huh... that's weird. **** you photobucket!
Here it is. Dark Green.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/drenrin2120/EyesDarkGreen.png)
I'll do more when I find time.
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What happened to this?
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What happened to this?
Same thing that happens to all our plans to mod the generator and other stuff: To little time/loss of interest.
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If anyone's still interested... I have some sprite-sized battle char templates I was working on. Could we possibly add those to the generator at some point? Either a new one or the current one, like a new category or something. They'll need different image sizes/grids/whatever, but it might be worth it if people work off them. So...?
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Honestly... what Fisherson said... =\ sad but partially true.
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That really sucks that this was never finished. I was reading through the thread and it looked like it had potential
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>.> I never did finish that shirt.
Dammit. Hm...