Charas-Project
Game Creation => RPG Maker => Topic started by: Liberty on April 26, 2012, 10:27:14 AM
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Petition for Signatures (http://www.change.org/petitions/rm2k3-in-english)
Official Topic (http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/1605-if-we-were-to-release-rpg-maker-2003-in-english-would-you-buy-it/)
This suggestion was thrown into the table and so we have to ask, if we were to release RPG Maker 2003 in English would you buy it?
Vote and post your suggestions here~
Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker.
Well, what can I say? There's a possibilty that Degica/EB! will look into creating an official English version of RM2K3 if there's enough demand for it. What do you all think? Should we embrace this momentous occasion that would allow us to use 2K3 legally? Would you pay for such a thing? Let your voices be heard!
And sign the damn petition! <3
Also, please spread the word around to any and all sites you frequent where people use the program. The more people made aware, the better!
(Wasn't sure where to put this, so I hope here's okay.)
Disclaimer: This was requested by a fan - namely me - to a staff member, so no hatin' on Degica. Got an issue, take it up with me and I'll show you my reasoning. Since some people are asshats. (Not necessarily anyone here, but there've been some people that are being a bit douchey about the idea.)
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I hope this doesn't count as being douchey but the fan made translation have worked pretty well these last 9 years. Not sure if I would get another copy just because it's an official translation.
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I think I would stick to the "Illegal" version. I wouldnt pay for an official version of software that is pretty much obsolete and nearly abandoned.
If this official english version were to export in various forms, or had multiplayer support...or some manner of worthwhile enhancement, Id be all over this. But asking for an official release of this software in 2012 is like... creating a petition for a caffeine free CHERRY crystal pepsi.
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Also, if you're wondering why you should bother...
Why wouldn't you? It helps EB! and Degica to be inspired to make more of an effort to listen to the fans.
You no longer have to live in shame knowing you've got a pirated copy.
You will legally own it.
It also makes a neat collection item for nostalgia's sake.
You can legally sell a 2k3 game.
You will gain legal usage of the RTP that came with it so that if you want to use it in other RM engines, you can.
You'll be supporting the people who support your hobby - it's almost like you'll be supporting your hobby yourself.
You will no longer be one of the dregs of society who pulls down the rest of your hobby-kin.
Are those enough reasons? Or would you like more?
This really is a big deal, though. How many other companies would take a fan's suggestion and run with it when it comes to an older program? Wanna be part of RM history? Vote yes~
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what they said :p
If I was still using rm2k3 regularly, then maybe, depending on the price.
If they added in some extras and tarted it up... Then I probably would buy it, because I do feel like I owe it something. But not if it was just a legal version of the same maker; it's too late. If it were to ensure that no rm2k3 bug would ever, ever occur in the legal version, for instance... :p
As for selling the game... Gaah haah hah hah! As Heidegger would have said.
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Wow, sad to see people like this. Not wanting to give back to the engine that gave you so many years of pleasure? It'd probably be pretty cheap and they might even fix the OS compatibility and agility issues.
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It's not that we don't want to give back. It's more that it's honestly too late. 2003 was 9 years ago, they've released both Xp and VX since then. If they had made an english version or listened to our pleas back in at least 2005 it would've been an entire different thing.
And I honestly don't feel ashamed that I have an unofficial copy, it was and still is the only way we could work with this maker.
And what Moose said, it's also too late trying to make a profit of rpgm2k3 games. There are phone games and engines with far more impressing graphics and possibilities out there now in 2012.
But if they also take care of some issues with the maker it would be worth getting, but just being able to use the "Enter hero name" (which was fixed in one of many great patches made by fans) does not interest me that much.
Also, the OP of the thread over at the rpgm site says numerous times that they are only planning on releasing it in english as an "collection item", "for nostalgia" and "just owning a legal copy". I don't think that person actually have any power to make this happen.
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Actually, she's in touch with the people who can. She works for them. This is legitimate and will happen if we get enough of the community to stand up and say 'aye'.
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Basically what Purp said. This just doesn't do anything for me. Enterbrain would basically have to create script compatibility and change the algorithm system to that like VX for me to really be interested. Otherwise, it's too little too late.
And honestly, ashamed of pirating? lol
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I'd consider it if they removed the 256 color limit and allowed fading transparencies.
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As bad as it may sound, it's just reality. You can't expect people who have had a community for nearly a decade to be fully enthusiastic about a product that is just now showing signs of an official English release this late in the game. It's too late by now. The community's died down a lot, many of us don't use the old RPG Maker anymore, and paying for something that's been "free" for this long is kind of a ridiculous idea. I know it sounds awful, but it's far from unreasonable. Sorry to crush your enthusiasm.
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Yeah, that list of reasons... I could tear that list a new butt.
Seriously, my crystal pepsi analogy still stands.
EB did me no favours. In fact, Enterbrains shitty customer service still owes me either 90$ or a free English version of AGM. So no, I owe enterbrain nothing. Ive bought their software before, and was dissatisfied with the customer service I got, so no, **** them.
This is not economically feasable for EB to do. This suggestion is too little too late.
Like a "WENDYS MUST CARRY A BACONATOR WITH TURKEY BACON. FOR COLLECTORS SAKE"
And frankly, I find the idea that you would write a big list about everything we owe EB, when you know nothing to be offensive. Leads me to think you take yourself too seriously.
Like I said, they owe me money. 2k3 is about to be a decade old. I wouldnt pay for a polished turd. If you want to, by all means.
"She works for them" and "She is the campaign director for new developments with EB" are two different things dude. People on the internet talk big, and people like you hear what you want to hear. Its never going to happen.
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Yeah, this is the moment where I wonder if I should clean up Ben's post a little to make it more chill. But I'll leave it like it is.
Sorry Liberty, the idea of a collectors edition English version of rpgm2k3 isn't that exciting over here. We got the resources and all that stuff but the need for an official copy just don't appeal.
Hope you have better luck elsewhere!
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Im not irate. I just swear a lot
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Why in the world would they make a legal version of 2k3 at this point? That ship sailed, hit an iceberg, sunk, was salvaged, and has a thriving underwater community of sea urchins living it by now. Work on, like, 2k13 or something that is a super powerful version of 2k3 and maybe we'll talk. Or true 3D. If Minecraft can do randomly generated worlds in 3D, I think it's time RPGMaker tackled the issue.
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Minecraft isn't that complex in its design, though, so I'll call that a lop-sided comparison.
Off-point. Right. Nothankyou.jpg
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Eh, you guys are a pretty downer bunch.
I'd consider it. Enterbrain might not be the coolest of companies and this might be really old software, but, I don't know about you guys, but I have my personal reason to be thankful for it, and wouldn't mind tossing some money their way (as long as it's "some money" and not "a lot of money").
Though the same can probably be said for Don Miguel or whoever it was that translated 2000 - I'd never have gotten into all of this if not for them.
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I said I would pay for it if it was beefed up. I pretty much concurr whole heartedly with Sai on this one.
Use the same maker...give it some 3-D. Even if its just cubes and 2d sprites. Perhaps some Multiplayer. Or XML, Java, SMF, support. At the very least, they could get rid of some of the restrictions.
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I certainly wouldn't mind letting go of the 256 color limit. This isn't the 90s anymore, I don't see why we need that.
Heck, it wasn't the 90s anymore when they released it. :P
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Eh, you guys are a pretty downer bunch.
I'd consider it. Enterbrain might not be the coolest of companies and this might be really old software, but, I don't know about you guys, but I have my personal reason to be thankful for it, and wouldn't mind tossing some money their way (as long as it's "some money" and not "a lot of money").
Though the same can probably be said for Don Miguel or whoever it was that translated 2000 - I'd never have gotten into all of this if not for them.
Boggling my mind over here. I'm pretty sure damn-near everything you've ever used was pirated.
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Most likely it wouldn't be a lot of money. Also, EB! wasn't in charge of the publishing - protexis was. Protexis used to handle the English Publishing of RM products, EB has no control over that, but they ended up not getting along well together. It's since been handed over to Degica who are more in touch with the community.
Why are they doing this now? Because now is when someone actually got up off their arses and asked. Namely me. I was talking to some pals in a chatroom about how nice it would be to have a legal license for the older versions when one of the reps for Degica said they'd ask their boss about it. We didn't expect anything to come from it, just figured it'd be worth a shot. Then we got a positive reply and I figured that if we could make this happen it'd be awesome. A legal 2k3? Sweet!
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I wouldnt be so optimistic about the pricing. Did you happen to catch how over priced the last 2 creation toolsets EB developed were? Not to mention their customer support for north america is lacking. I purchased AGM from them, only to have it not have the english patch work. They told me they would give me a copy of the official english release, and refund my money if I went through the purchase process a second time after the English release. I did. They didnt refund anything. The second time trying the software, it would not run on my x64 system. So I paid twice for a 2 copys of AGM that are of no use to me. And the toolset was WAAAY over priced for the value you got, even with a working copy.
But I should probably sign it anyways, so that I can pirate the hell out of it. Because screw those guys.
EB has never been awesome to its north american fan base.
Unity, GameSalad, Game maker 8, Stencyl Pro, Tourque are all something more deserving of my dollars that enterbrain.
I am thankfull the Don Miguel exists. In my eyes, that guy is the reason I got into making games. Not because of somebody at enterbrain.
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Well, my opinion probably doesn't matter much because I'm new here, but I like the idea of making it finally legal. I don't like using pirated software if there's a way to use a legal version. I use RM2k3 because I love it. I didn't really like RMXP, and VX didn't look much more promising to me (you might like it, but I didn't). This petition's got my signature.
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I wouldnt be so optimistic about the pricing. Did you happen to catch how over priced the last 2 creation toolsets EB developed were? Not to mention their customer support for north america is lacking. I purchased AGM from them, only to have it not have the english patch work. They told me they would give me a copy of the official english release, and refund my money if I went through the purchase process a second time after the English release. I did. They didnt refund anything. The second time trying the software, it would not run on my x64 system. So I paid twice for a 2 copys of AGM that are of no use to me. And the toolset was WAAAY over priced for the value you got, even with a working copy.
But I should probably sign it anyways, so that I can pirate the hell out of it. Because screw those guys.
EB has never been awesome to its north american fan base.
I just had to get out of lurking and post here. Protexis and ENTERBRAIN AND DEGICA ARE NOT THE SAME. Protexis was the one handling AGM BEFORE the one you're saying with shitty customer support. Enterbrain can only speak Japanese that's why they needed publishers like Protexis (NA) or Degica (which is actually an English publishing company based on TOKYO).
Degica is the NEW publisher for RPGMaker AND 3 out of 4 of their staff are RM fans. If you even pay attention to how the Official English Community's Staff and Support even work, they're active and even make tutorials and free resources for the fans. And even go as far as trying to make the other maker's RTP available for any maker use without buying the maker itself.
So much for not being awesome to the fanbase.
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That does not change anything though. I am aware that they are not all the same company. The fact still remains that Enterbrain contracts lackluster Companies to Publish and distribute over seas. How the hell would this case end up any different.
Ill bet you a paid copy of this 2k3 legal edition that the price tag on this ends up being in the neigborhood of 100$ and up, USD. Especially since its "collectors edition". Thats going to add another fifty to the price, regardless of the distribution.
And 3/4 of these people being RM fans is a moot point. Im a fan of my own products too. I fail to see how this is going to make my attempt at writing my life story and publishing it in japanese any more sucessfull.
Enterbrain also offers free resources for their fans. They have really good generators. TUtorials too. Documentation. Im not sure what kind of sparkles Degica is blowing up your butt, but I've seen this sort of thing a million times before. The result, is the EB equivalent to Square Enix and CHocobo racing. A convoluted attempt to rehash some commercial sucess at a time when other developers are all ready offering Independant and free creation suites with ten times the power and half the headache.
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Wait what are you saying?
And 3/4 of these people being RM fans is a moot point. Im a fan of my own products too. I fail to see how this is going to make my attempt at writing my life story and publishing it in japanese any more sucessfull.
By this I meant they actually meant that they went to the English FAN RM communities and pick their staff there and then made them handle the official english forums so they can listen to the fans. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE.
I'm willing to bet to you that rm2k3 won't even exceed 20$
This suggestion was thrown into the table and so we have to ask, if we were to release RPG Maker 2003 in English would you buy it?
Vote and post your suggestions here~
Just a note, take the EULA into consideration. This means you guys shouldn't use patches/plug-ins/external programs if you want to use RPG Maker. Not sure about the RPG_RT.exe though since I know it's not illegal to change the icon *hint hint, wink wink*
I also wanted to add that this was actually requested by a fan and her reasoning was she wants to own a legal copy of her childhood program, which we think isn't a bad idea if it's for the sake of Nostalgia and just a collector's item.
After talking to my boss, its estimated price value is $20.
EDIT: Wow I just posted the topic and there's already a petition, over here http://www.change.or...m2k3-in-english
CONFIRMED. It's only $20. How about that?
Enterbrain also offers free resources for their fans. They have really good generators. TUtorials too. Documentation. Im not sure what kind of sparkles Degica is blowing up your butt, but I've seen this sort of thing a million times before. The result, is the EB equivalent to Square Enix and CHocobo racing. A convoluted attempt to rehash some commercial sucess at a time when other developers are all ready offering Independant and free creation suites with ten times the power and half the headache.
Only if you own the LEGAL JP KEY. Tutorials and Documentation are only in Japanese unless you're referring to the helpfile which is something different. The tutorials and documentation in the Official English site is different. WHEN PROTEXIS WAS HANDLING RM, they didn't include any of these. And the only time they even bothered to release something free was Knight_Blade for RMXP and that was that. You don't get to see any free packs that Enterbrain release to the JP in EN.
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CONFIRMED. It's only $20. How about that?
How about no? What am I paying for here, exactly? Nostalgia? A guilt-free conscious? Gratitude?
Eh. I sleep like a baby with my pirated version. Especially since I haven't opened 2k3 to do serious work in years now. Even XP seems stupidly clunky compared to modern technology.
If they release a new product, a quality product, in English, in a timely manner, that seems like it could be fun to use and I don't hear a bunch of bad reviews about, then yeah, I'll consider buying it and firing it up. As is, 20 cents is asking for too much for something that I've owned for a decade, much less 20 dollars.
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That was a reply to Ben's RM2k3 is going to be 50-100 USD. Read the conversation. And as the OPENING says, this was actually requested by an rm2k3 fan and they're just asking if they still want it and then they'll publish it to english for legality issues. THAT WAS IT.
Also XP? XP is outdated as hell. There's VXAce now which is the most well accepted RM right now.
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If all you're looking at are reviews and not trying it out yourself - which you can since there are free trial versions - then how would you know for yourself that they aren't worth using? The new makers are pretty good, yeah, though there are a few issues with the, as with all the makers. That said, I for one would welcome a legal version of 2K3, not only for nostalgia value but for the joy of having done the right thing by a program I loved. They might even fix the bugs which would be nice.
And it shows EB that we appreciate their games, since, you know, that's what they are.
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so 20$ gets me pretty much a fraction of what I would get with a pirated version, and all the new fancy RM mods out there.
20$ means an official translation, that you have to pay for. the fact that you would petition for something like this for the right to PAY for something that should have been delivered to you ten years ago, means you are not the sort of person that is going to see actual logic. I am a RM fan, but you obviously are in it for other reasons.
I think its stupid. And I wouldnt give a penny for it. Im not sure why you think my mind will be changed. RM 2k3 was okay. If they wanted to get my loyalty, they'd release 2k3 for free. Im not sure why they dont...it would bring more attention to their other over priced products.
Anyways, when they decide NOT to do this because its not economically feasible...Im going to necro post a BWAHAHAHA in this topic.
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There is no point to this. The general forum opinion is pretty apparent.
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Glad to see douchiness is still alive in RM land. As for having other reasons? None. Wanna see the chatlogs?
The chatlogs, if anyone was interested. Note that for legal reasons I had to cut some things out. I've also changed all names but my own, just in case.
***Star*** was the 'representative'
I'm Libby and the rest are mysterious~
[17:56] <007> for someone to want to make your whole soundtrack for you
01[17:57] <Libby> it can cost a lot of money
01[17:57] <Libby> ...thank god for enterbrain and the RTP music, eh?
01[17:57] <Libby> XD
[17:57] <boyo~> depends whatcha intentions are for your project I guess
01[17:58] <Libby> well, that too
[17:58] <007> Yeah like XXXXXX isn't a anything really
[17:58] <007> so I just used newgrounds music
01[17:58] <Libby> if there's a possibility of selling it or even asking doenation, then... yeah
01[17:58] <Libby> you need music that won't get you into trouble
[17:58] <boyo~> for me making a custom project was like.. the whole point of making a custom project :D
[17:59] <boyo~> but
[17:59] <boyo~> it's 2k3
[17:59] <boyo~> so
[17:59] <boyo~> it's still not legit
01[17:59] <Libby> yeah
01[17:59] <Libby> wonder if you could purchase a 2k3 license
[17:59] <boyo~> I don't think you can :<
[17:59] <boyo~> even if you did, it's a breach of the EULA to use plugins and stuf
01[17:59] <Libby> there's a japanese veriosn you can buy
[18:00] <boyo~> you'd have to use the JP version to be
[18:00] <boyo~> in the clear
[18:00] <boyo~> I think
01[18:00] <Libby> maybe since it's an old product you could convince them to sell you a 'this person payed and may use as they like" thing
[18:00] <boyo~> that would be nice
01[18:00] <Libby> even if you've got an edited english version
[18:00] <boyo~> but it might be counterproductive to them
01[18:00] <Libby> I mean, it's not like they're making money on the product anymore
[18:01] <boyo~> legitmizing piracy, even at a fee, isn't gonna help sales of their flagship products :<
01[18:01] <Libby> so a coverall licence would probably rake in a bit more moeny
01[18:01] <Libby> well, but for their older software
01[18:01] <Libby> it's not like most people don't have a cracked version of the new stuff anyway
01[18:02] <Libby> I mean, how many people who use VX and VXA have the licenses?
01[18:02] <Libby> Not as many people as are making games on them
[18:02] <boyo~> sure
[18:02] <boyo~> but it's not like
01[18:02] <Libby> it's not like they'd be condoning piracy
01[18:02] <Libby> since it's already occuring
[18:02] <boyo~> I don't think they plan to accomodate piracy D:
01[18:03] <Libby> giving peopel the chance to pay for the older prodcts would help though
01[18:03] <Libby> since then they'd be at least a bit more legal
[18:03] <boyo~> it would probably be cool
[18:03] <boyo~> but I don't think a company would do it
01[18:03] <Libby> you can't tell me that if they offered you wouldn't take it up
[18:03] <boyo~> I'd only be interested if it let you do whatever you like with it
01[18:04] <Libby> if they said - here, pay us 30 and we'll let you used RM2k3 like it was ace...
01[18:04] <Libby> well yeah
01[18:04] <Libby> a cover-all licence
[18:04] <boyo~> including things that would break the eula for ace or vx
[18:04] <boyo~> if it were that
[18:04] <boyo~> like using that tileswap thing
[18:04] <boyo~> is a breach of vx's eula
01[18:04] <Libby> that way they could make some money back from all the sales they missed out on with the program
[18:05] <@***Star***> they still get sales for 2k3 and 2000 Value in Japan
01[18:06] <Libby> well, a coverall license would acknowledge that yes, we know you had to go to extremes to get it in english, yes, we know you've probably messed with the actual program itself to do so, but here, we don't mind as much since it's an old program
[18:06] <@***Star***> they just never supported it for ENG
01[18:06] <Libby> we'll forgive you since we didn't make it available to you all at the start, but hey, you still need to buy a license
[18:06] <boyo~> I just reckon that it would be a bad move for them, people who might have bought ace would just buy 2k3 licenses
[18:06] <@***Star***> you can still buy 2k/2k3 legally <:3c
[18:07] <@***Star***> but it's going to be japanese
01[18:07] <Libby> that's why I figured a cover all licence would be nice
[18:07] <@***Star***> tbh I don't think eb! lost a lot of sales at all
[18:07] <@***Star***> since
01[18:07] <Libby> like: yeah, you got a copy that is translated to englush
[18:07] <@***Star***> people still buy IGM
[18:08] <007> Not many in the english communiuty bought that
[18:08] <@***Star***> yeah
01[18:08] <Libby> we understand that you had to cheat to do so, here, pay us and we'll fogive you
[18:08] <@***Star***> actually no
01[18:08] <Libby> XD
[18:08] <@***Star***> 007
[18:08] <@***Star***> I'm referring to the english sales
[18:08] <@***Star***> I saw the graph :X
[18:08] <@***Star***> and was surprised
[18:08] <@***Star***> cover all license sounds a bit...iffy that means all RTP is available for you from rm95-RMVXace
[18:08] <boyo~> there's always a catch with everything
[18:09] <@***Star***> and they have this habit of reusing the RTP from a maker
01[18:09] <Libby> No
01[18:09] <Libby> I mean, cover for each maker
01[18:09] <Libby> so one for 2k3, one for 2k
[18:09] <boyo~> like construct classic is more powerful (for non rpgs) than rm, igm, and maybe GM too... Plus you can use it for free commercially.. but you need an outdated direct x 9 distributable to run the games :<
01[18:09] <Libby> like, coverall in the term of they don't mind that it was translated to english or that you use cherry's edits
01[18:10] <Libby> for that one program
[18:10] <@***Star***> that's against the EULA
[18:10] <@***Star***> if they're going to do that
[18:10] <@***Star***> might as well make rm2k/2k3
[18:10] <@***Star***> open source code
01[18:10] <Libby> I know, but it would be nice for the older programs
[18:10] <@***Star***> which could hurt them
01[18:10] <Libby> or even just for the english version
[18:11] <@***Star***> with that you're going to put potential future sales into trobule
[18:11] <@***Star***> since if it's open source code
[18:11] <@***Star***> al ot of people can copy the code and improvise it
01[18:11] <Libby> okay, so here's an english version. You're covered only if it's a translated version with no add ons
[18:11] <@***Star***> and make their own engines out of it
[18:11] <@***Star***> libby with that you're pretty much saying go ahead and hack our program
01[18:11] <Libby> even that would be awesome
01[18:11] <Libby> no, just translate it
[18:11] <@***Star***> it's still hacking
[18:11] <@***Star***> the program
01[18:11] <Libby> if people want to hack it, nothing will stop them anyway
[18:12] <@***Star***> yeah but at least you can sue them
01[18:12] <Libby> but being covered for an english translation would be nice
01[18:12] <Libby> just a translation
[18:12] <@***Star***> it's still iffy
01[18:12] <Libby> that said, they could just make their own patch
01[18:12] <Libby> and sell it
[18:12] <@***Star***> I'm seeing it from an abusers standpoint
01[18:12] <Libby> abusers will abuse anyway
[18:12] <@***Star***> yes but at least you can still throw the law against them
01[18:12] <Libby> and allowing just a translation cuts everything else off
[18:13] <@***Star***> allowing just a translation means showing off the code
[18:13] <@***Star***> which is terrible
01[18:13] <Libby> no edits
[18:13] <@***Star***> it's still going to happen
[18:13] <@***Star***> to translate
[18:13] <@***Star***> you have to make sure the font fits
[18:13] <@***Star***> etc.
01[18:13] <Libby> or, again, they could release their own patch for it
06[18:13] * @***Star*** translated programs before
01[18:13] <Libby> and sell it
[18:13] <@***Star***> 2k3 is outdated though
01[18:13] <Libby> people would buy both the Japanses version and the patch
[18:13] <@***Star***> it doesn't work on some win7/vsita programs
01[18:13] <Libby> but it's still very widely used
01[18:14] <Libby> works fine on mine
01[18:14] <Libby> >.>
01[18:14] <Libby> <.<
[18:14] <@***Star***> yes but not everyone
[18:14] <@***Star***> I know YF doesn't
01[18:14] <Libby> most
[18:14] <@***Star***> Diamond couldn't
[18:14] <@***Star***> I can't play rm2k games :I
01[18:14] <Libby> and wouldn't it be better to have it paid for?
01[18:14] <Libby> to at least have the option?
[18:15] <@***Star***> if it was "in public demand"
01[18:15] <Libby> otherwise people can only use it via piracy
[18:15] <@***Star***> degica might consider it :P
01[18:15] <Libby> when they would have been happy to pay for it
[18:15] <@***Star***> the problem is mostly money
01[18:15] <Libby> it's like being forced to pirate because it isn't there to buy
[18:15] <007> Well it'd be nice in the sense of
[18:15] <007> a lot of cool RM2k/3 games are out there
01[18:15] <Libby> it's being forced to have been hacked, too
[18:15] <@***Star***> it is there to buy
[18:15] <@***Star***> just in JP
01[18:15] <Libby> in englosh
[18:15] <007> and it would be nice to put it out there in the RM forums
[18:15] <@***Star***> and Eb said it before
[18:15] <@***Star***> I even saw the page
[18:15] <@***Star***> please don't pirate 2k3
01[18:16] <Libby> star
[18:16] <@***Star***> we will translate it into english
[18:16] <007> and not be like "IT WAS ILLEGUL, YOU CAN'T POST KEWL GAMES HERE"
[18:16] <@***Star***> but the eng audience didn't listen
[18:16] <@***Star***> so eb ditched the idea
01[18:16] <Libby> when?
[18:16] <@***Star***> it was looong ago
[18:16] <@***Star***> :V
[18:16] <@***Star***> I will find the page again
01[18:16] <Libby> I don't recall such a thing
[18:16] <@***Star***> once my net stops bitching
[18:16] <@***Star***> but it did exist
[18:16] <@***Star***> it was on their old site
[18:16] <007> No one even heard of it
[18:16] <@***Star***> it was when 2k3 was newly released
01[18:16] <Libby> if it had been put up among the RM sites it probably would ahve been a great thing
01[18:17] <Libby> people would have listened
[18:17] <@***Star***> it shows how much the eng audience back then paid attention to the official publisher
[18:17] <@***Star***> hey EB said it themselves they're going to translate it into english
[18:17] <@***Star***> (didn't bother to check the main site)
01[18:17] <Libby> Because back then they only focussed on the Japanese side of things
[18:17] <@***Star***> (translated it by themselves)
01[18:18] <Libby> I didn't even knoe they had an Englush site until last year when Ace was released
[18:18] <@***Star***> it was protexis before
01[18:18] <Libby> and I've been in the RM internet community since 98
[18:18] <@***Star***> degica is the new publisher
[18:18] <@***Star***> they started ENGing
[18:18] <@***Star***> RMXP days
[18:18] <boyo~> I think somebody showed me that page you know.
[18:18] <@***Star***> boyo~ the 2k3 into english one?
[18:18] <boyo~> the page where it talks about english 2k3
[18:19] <@***Star***> I remember it was posted in rmn
[18:19] <boyo~> yep
[18:19] <@***Star***> yeah
01[18:19] <Libby> I don't remember it
[18:19] <@***Star***> yeeep
01[18:19] <Libby> >.<;
[18:19] <@***Star***> 8'D
[18:19] <boyo~> just ***Star*** said
01[18:19] <Libby> I'd have been all over that if I had
[18:19] <boyo~> nobody took any notice of it :D
[18:19] <boyo~> I only saw it last year
[18:19] <@***Star***> exactly :D
[18:19] <boyo~> not back in the day
[18:19] <@***Star***> it shows how much the eng audience cares for getting it legally
01[18:20] <Libby> most of the ENG community didn't know about it
01[18:20] <Libby> you know, seeing as the site was only in english... during XP?
[18:20] <@***Star***> yeah
[18:20] <@***Star***> that's after the 2k3 drama fest
[18:20] <@***Star***> they just decided to publish xs themselves
01[18:20] <Libby> well, how were they supposed to know?
[18:20] <@***Star***> THEN
[18:20] <@***Star***> postality knights came in
01[18:20] <Libby> if it were in japanese?
[18:20] <@***Star***> and then that's where the REAL fans of RM came in and siad
[18:20] <@***Star***> THESE SCRIPTS WORK ONLY
[18:20] <@***Star***> IN
[18:21] <@***Star***> OFFICIAL RM
[18:21] <@***Star***> stop using postality knights
01[18:21] <Libby> I have no idea~
01[18:21] <Libby> XD
[18:21] <@***Star***> I had been in the XP days
[18:21] <@***Star***> I saw it ALL
[18:21] <@***Star***> ALLLL
[18:21] <@***Star***> xD
01[18:21] <Libby> If I could buy an english translation for RM2K/3 I would
01[18:21] <Libby> That money would appear out of thin air and into their bank accounts
[18:22] <@***Star***> besides it's too late for rm2k3 now
01[18:22] <Libby> XD
[18:22] <@***Star***> if the revive it
[18:22] <@***Star***> that means they have to add
[18:22] <@***Star***> support for it
[18:22] <@***Star***> and patches
01[18:22] <Libby> well, there's still a lot of people who use it
[18:22] <@***Star***> which they don't relaly have right now since they're focused on the new makers
01[18:22] <Libby> so
01[18:22] <Libby> they can't complain about pirate/hacked versions of the old makers then
[18:22] <@***Star***> they don't
01[18:22] <Libby> I mean, they can complain, but they need to understand
[18:22] <boyo~> ***Star***
01[18:23] <Libby> yeah
[18:23] <@***Star***> they already complained and even said
01[18:23] <Libby> I know
01[18:23] <Libby> just posting it out there
[18:23] <@***Star***> but it's still their property
[18:23] <boyo~> How the **** does Pisces constellation even remotely look like a fish
[18:23] <@***Star***> and you CAN buy it legally
[18:23] <@***Star***> just not in english
01[18:23] <Libby> still, I prefer some of the old versions
01[18:23] <Libby> that's the main issue
[18:23] <@***Star***> but it doesn't mean you CAN'T buy it
01[18:23] <Libby> in japanese
[18:23] <@***Star***> so they can still complain since it's against their TERMS AND CONDITIONS
01[18:23] <Libby> which most english can't read
[18:23] <@***Star***> which is a contract
[18:23] <@***Star***> and
[18:23] <@***Star***> like what others will say
[18:23] <@***Star***> language barrier
[18:24] <@***Star***> isn't a good excuse
01[18:24] <Libby> it'd be the most used one though
[18:24] <@***Star***> it's like how JP doesn't understand english copyrights
[18:24] <@***Star***> they still get sued
01[18:24] <Libby> Now, I bought the new makers because i love them
[18:24] <@***Star***> the same hting goes to ENG 2k3 users
01[18:24] <Libby> I'll always love 2k and 2k3, and might use them
01[18:24] <Libby> but I don't ahve them legally
<Cute Babble>
[18:26] <@***Star***> I will ASK degica
[18:26] <007> Well honestly
01[18:26] <Libby> :D
[18:26] <007> I think RMVX Ace is nice enough
[18:26] <@***Star***> if they can try to put in 2k3/2000 Value
[18:26] <@***Star***> in ENG
01[18:26] <Libby> yay~
[18:26] <@***Star***> I did thought about it
[18:26] <007> but yeah 2k3 in Eng would be great
[18:26] <@***Star***> but then yeah
[18:26] <@***Star***> the points I said
01[18:26] <Libby> people do still use the engine
01[18:26] <Libby> a lot do
[18:26] <boyo~> can you ask them to request a revision of the EULA :D
[18:26] <007> At least to be legally used and stuff
06[18:26] * boyo~ gets shot
[18:26] <@***Star***> it's mostly compatibility
01[18:26] <Libby> it's easier and doesn't require scripting to use
[18:26] <@***Star***> and the bugfixes
[18:26] <@***Star***> etc.
01[18:26] <Libby> also, it's a charming engine
01[18:27] <Libby> and there are some things it does right that VX and VXA don't
01[18:27] <Libby> like the mapping layers -.-
[18:27] <007> I think if they allowed 320x240 maps and 16x16 tiles in RMVX Ace, then we wouldn't really have had this issue so much.... actually it still would because it's STILL missing some things that RM2k3 had
[18:27] <007> >:U
01[18:27] <Libby> why'd they have to mess with the mapping layer?
[18:27] <@***Star***> actuall
[18:27] <@***Star***> y
[18:27] <@***Star***> I would hate 320x240 maps
[18:27] <@***Star***> and 16x16 in vXace
[18:27] <boyo~> I think we're just all stuck in our ways
01[18:27] <Libby> true
[18:27] <@***Star***> and I would kill EB
[18:28] <@***Star***> if they did tht
[18:28] <@***Star***> *that
[18:28] <007> I mean as an option
01[18:28] <Libby> I don't mind the sizes as much
[18:28] <boyo~> 2k3 displays at double res by default anyway
[18:28] <007> not as a ONLY thing
[18:28] <@***Star***> IGM had that ;_;
[18:28] <boyo~> so doubling sized resources
[18:28] <@***Star***> yeah
01[18:28] <Libby> but, I do wish they hadn't messed with the mapping layers
[18:28] <boyo~> would be exactly the same
06[18:28] * Libby is stuck on this point forever
[18:28] <007> RMXP's mapping was fine
<***Star*** asked someone higher about it and they said they'd put it out there and that they'd have to get an official translation>
01[18:29] <Libby> it would be great to see
01[18:29] <Libby> an they'd be making some money back on a program that is still used now
[18:30] <007> Though they're gonna waste money on translating if they do
01[18:30] <Libby> instead of missing out on a market
[18:30] <007> or at least resources
[18:30] <@***Star***> but yeah
[18:30] <@***Star***> my boss said it himself
01[18:30] <Libby> they could use a fantranslation
[18:30] <boyo~> sucks to be a plugin user :<
[18:30] <@***Star***> if there's enough interested
[18:30] <007> if they do fan translation, then that might be ok but they'd have to contact whoever did it which I think was
[18:30] <@***Star***> they're
[18:30] <@***Star***> going
[18:30] <@***Star***> to
[18:30] <@***Star***> publish i
[18:30] <007> whats his phylomortis name
[18:30] <@***Star***> t
[18:30] <007> :3
01[18:30] <Libby> :D
[18:30] <007> Yeah that'd be cool
[18:30] <@***Star***> RPG advocate
01[18:30] <Libby> yess
[18:30] <@***Star***> I'm not counting on it though
[18:30] <007> If they do
01[18:30] <Libby> his was the best one
[18:30] <007> I would actually buy it
01[18:30] <Libby> yes
01[18:30] <Libby> same
01[18:30] <Libby> definitely
[18:31] <007> and I could go back to using it
[18:31] <@***Star***> I'm still not counting on it though
[18:31] <007> :D
[18:31] <@***Star***> haha
01[18:31] <Libby> nevermind that I don't use it as much anytmore
[18:31] <@***Star***> how many 2k3 users are out there right now
01[18:31] <Libby> I'd still buy it
[18:31] <007> instead of using RMVX Ace for legal reasons
01[18:31] <Libby> lost
01[18:31] <Libby> lots
[18:31] <007> There still are some
[18:31] <@***Star***> some
[18:31] <007> in fact, I think some just switched over for legality reasons
[18:31] <007> like me
[18:31] <@***Star***> but yeah
[18:31] <007> but if it were legal again
01[18:31] <Libby> you've got people who have lots of old projects
[18:31] <007> I'd be right back :D
[18:31] <@***Star***> he'll bring it up with eb
[18:31] <boyo~> problem is that almost every single 2k3 user uses some sort of patch or plugin
[18:31] <@***Star***> exactly what boyo~ said
[18:31] <@***Star***> that's
[18:31] <@***Star***> against
[18:31] <@***Star***> the eula
01[18:31] <Libby> maybe, if we spread the word and have a petition signes...
01[18:32] <Libby> not me
[18:32] <boyo~> without being allowed to use plugins, there's no point really
[18:32] <@***Star***> that would help eb change their mind
[18:32] <boyo~> for me :<
01[18:32] <Libby> no patches or plugins
01[18:32] <Libby> Maybe the glyph one
01[18:32] <Libby> >.<
01[18:32] <Libby> forgot about that one
01[18:33] <Libby> that's one area where XP+ excell - icons
01[18:33] <Libby> icons<2
[18:33] <@***Star***> hey hey
01[18:33] <Libby> <3, even
<***Star*** asks about if a petition is made would EB! reconsider and got a positive answer>
[18:33] <@***Star***> it's going to be a poll
[18:33] <@***Star***> so you guys better vote
01[18:34] <Libby> yesss~
01[18:34] <Libby> (I was thinking more one of those change pages)
01[18:34] <Libby> that way we could all share the link on facebook and whatnot
[18:34] <@***Star***> ok
01[18:34] <Libby> :D
01[18:35] <Libby> change.org
[18:38] <@***Star***> also 007
[18:38] <@***Star***> tell it to MD
[18:38] <@***Star***> I'm sure those guys would love it
[18:38] <@***Star***> http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/1605-if-we-were-to-release-rpg-maker-2003-in-english-would-you-buy-it/
[18:38] <007> k
[18:38] <boyo~> :<
[18:38] <boyo~> I wonder how many people will answer without knowing the eula thing
[18:39] <@***Star***> I should bring this up
01[18:40] <Libby> http://www.change.org/petitions/an-official-english-version-of-rpg-maker-2003-eb-to-release-an-english-version-of-rpg-maker-2003
01[18:40] <Libby> could we use that too?
[18:40] <@***Star***> it mght be better to vote on the official site
[18:40] <@***Star***> but
[18:40] <@***Star***> you can post that too I think
01[18:41] <Libby> yeah, but use that as a way to spread the word
01[18:41] <Libby> I'll edit in a link to that topic
<***Star*** lets them know about the petition and he says to put the amount at about 1000>
[18:43] <@***Star***> yeah you can use the petition
01[18:43] <Libby> yeah I am
01[18:43] <Libby> editing a few things~
[18:43] <@***Star***> but change the amount to 1000
01[18:43] <Libby> doing
01[18:44] <Libby> it also automatically ups once that amount is reached
01[18:44] <Libby> so if it reaches 100, it changes to 200, then 400...
[18:44] <@***Star***> yeah but it has to be 1000
[18:44] <@***Star***> minimum
[18:44] <@***Star***> so people have a good idea
[18:44] <@***Star***> how many votes are needed
01[18:45] <Libby> but I'll add in
01[18:45] <Libby> yeah, I got it added
01[18:45] <Libby> just gotta add link and save~
01[18:47] <Libby> http://www.change.org/petitions/rm2k3-in-english
01[18:47] <Libby> ya-ha~
[18:47] <@***Star***> someone
[18:47] <@***Star***> post the news
[18:47] <@***Star***> in rmn
[18:49] <boyo~> I'd be all for it.. if it meant me and Windychan could treat XXX as an "indie game" :P
[18:49] <boyo~> but we can't anyway
[18:49] <boyo~> it uses DynRPG
[18:50] <@***Star***> you can pretend you didn't use add-ons
[18:50] <@***Star***> not like eb will sue your asses off anyway
[18:50] <@***Star***> people used that
[18:50] <@***Star***> tileset editor
[18:50] <@***Star***> which is an external program
[18:50] <@***Star***> in vx
[18:50] <boyo~> yeah
[18:50] <@***Star***> and nobody got sued
06[18:50] * @***Star*** wink wink
[18:50] <boyo~> hmm
[18:50] <boyo~> well I still wouldn't wanna sell it, just in case (not that I was planning that anyway but.. you know what I mean)
[18:51] <boyo~> that said.. there's worse things out there
<Babble out>
[19:03] <@***Star***> oh man I get excited for you guys
[19:03] <007> I really want RM2k3 legal
[19:03] <007> I'd hop right back on it and make XXX there
[19:03] <007> :D
[19:04] <007> without worries!
[19:04] <007> and XXX remake
01[19:04] <Libby> Posted on SW
[19:04] <007> and then feel all in control of my game again :D
[19:04] <007> instead of "can someone script x for me D:"
[19:04] <007> \:D/
01[19:04] <Libby> yeah
[19:05] <007> It's not like a PERFECT ENGINE
[19:05] <007> but it was really nice for those who aren't programmically minded
[19:05] <boyo~> it's just what
[19:05] <boyo~> I grew up with
[19:05] <007> and graphically stuff
[19:05] <007> and nostalgia
[19:05] <007> and lots of good RM2k3 games around
[19:05] <007> honestly
01[19:05] <Libby> where to pop this on RPGVXA.com...
[19:05] <007> The ones rated 4 and above in RMN outnumber RMXP and RMVX games rated 4 and above combined I think
[19:05] <@***Star***> 007
[19:05] <@***Star***> we can make
[19:05] <@***Star***> XXX
[19:05] <@***Star***> sellable now :0
[19:06] <007> yes :D
[19:06] <007> Seee
[19:06] <007> Be happy
[19:06] <@***Star***> haha
[19:06] <007> ;w;
[19:07] <007> RM2k3's english release if it does will be the happiest day in my life
[19:07] <007> lol
[19:07] <007> It's funny
[19:07] <007> I was working in the Library back in like 2000
[19:07] <007> then my brother called me there
[19:07] <007> asked for me and then was happily telling me he found a program to make RPGs
[19:07] <007> I was like "No way"
[19:07] <007> so I got home and got to use RM2k
[19:07] <007> and then I got hooked D:
[19:07] <007> and now i'm here.
[19:08] <@***Star***> someone from france
[19:08] <@***Star***> signed alreadyt
01[19:08] <Libby> :D
01[19:09] <Libby> let's make this happen~
<babble out?>
[19:19] <007> Liberteaaa, please make this happen
01[19:19] <Libby> I'm trying as hard as I can
01[19:20] <Libby> tonight will be a search for RM sites night
[19:20] <007> :'3
And the reason they didn't do it in the first place was because of people like you who wouldn't pay. They're only reconsidering because a fan actually asked for them to. As you can see if you read the above hidden content.
PS: How in the world do you hide things on this forum? Hide and Spoiler tags don't work...
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I this JesusIsMe pretty muchs summed it up.
I fail to see how not sharing your opinion constituates "Douchiness". I respect that your opinion is not mine. I've stated my case. I would kindly ask that you respect that I am also entitled to my opinion. An edited chatlog pasted into a forum thread is not going to change my mind at all
"people like you" is a pretty judgemental term to use here. I would have paid. I have a paid edition of Game maker, and two of AGM, and a StencylPro and iOS account on the way. I think Im pretty confident in saying I spend a good deal of money of development tools.
I dont give my money to enterbrain, because they did not value me as a customer. And it seems to me that by alienating so many fans in english speaking contries for this long, they kind of dug their own grave in north america as far as 2k3 is concerned. They never released it here ititially because they werent sure if it would catch on. If it was for fear of piracy, they wouldnt have developed the toolset to begin with.
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I fail to see how not sharing your opinion constituates "Douchiness". I respect that your opinion is not mine. I've stated my case. I would kindly ask that you respect that I am also entitled to my opinion. An edited chatlog pasted into a forum thread is not going to change my mind at all
You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean it is a valid opinion. It doesn't mean that holding steadfast to that opinion in the face of solid logical evidence against it isn't ignorance. It doesn't mean you can just refute facts by saying you have an opinion that differs with them and expect people to respect that.
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The customer's opinions are the ones that matter in the end. If you like the product and want it, great. If another does not want the product however, it is good business to take their opinions into consideration. They are both valid.
As previously stated, you've heard the majority of the opinions on the matter. You can throw whatever logic at us you want: it really won't change how we feel.
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Yeah, were going to have to agree to disagree.
These "facts" are pretty subject to circumstance, and frankly at this point, until the word is given that the project is a go, they are not facts, they are at best speculation and conjecture. Chat logs. Fan speculation. A poll to determine public interest is not a fact. It is a poll. To determine public interest. If I were to start a petition to have battletoads remade for PS3, and am told that somebody will officially back the project if I garner enough public interest, it does not make it a fact. The only fact at play is that essentially some dudes want to make an official english version, and EB has said "Uh...sure... if we make money off it, and we dont have to do the work, go for it"
It does not matter how many people you bring into the discussion from whatever rm community you call home, the general consensus is that we, for the most part, don't see it being all that great of an Idea.
Perhaps another member has something to say to the contrary, but until then, youre going to have to just come to terms with the fact that we do not think this is as awesome as you do.
My opinion is as valid as yours. To say otherwise is simply ignorant.
EDIT: additionally, all credit that chat log might have given your argument is gone as soon as somebody says "We can sell our RM games legally now". Good luck with that....I mean finding somebody to pay money for an rm2k3 game. Im sure it happens, but frankly, the people who pay for that sort of thing are the developers aunties and friends. Unless the game exports into a format that is compatible with online gaming portals, or mobile development, your five dollar indy made rm game, is going to look pretty stupid, numbers wise, when compared with an iOS or android compatible flash java or unity game that is free to play, fan/indy/hobbist/amatuer made, and supported by a development community that is using software that is not paleolithic.
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Yeah once again. Doing this for nostalgia, having a legal copy and whatever fear comes from using pirated material just isn't enough 9 years later. I remember that a forum contacted the peeps who developed 2k3 and asked them if they would release an english version back in the days. They were merely met with rudeness like "How can you tell if it was a great product unless you pirated it?" And crap. So we weren't listened to back then, back when we actually used it a lot.
So we're not gonna get excited about this. You're not succesfull in convincing us, feels more like you're trying to talk us into it now.
But good luck elsewhere and that you'll find people who share you view
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01[18:09] <Libby> like, coverall in the term of they don't mind that it was translated to english or that you use cherry's edits
01[18:10] <Libby> for that one program
[18:10] <@***Star***> that's against the EULA
[18:10] <@***Star***> if they're going to do that
[18:10] <@***Star***> might as well make rm2k/2k3
[18:10] <@***Star***> open source code
01[18:10] <Libby> I know, but it would be nice for the older programs
[18:10] <@***Star***> which could hurt them
01[18:10] <Libby> or even just for the english version
[18:11] <@***Star***> with that you're going to put potential future sales into trobule
[18:11] <@***Star***> since if it's open source code
[18:11] <@***Star***> al ot of people can copy the code and improvise it
01[18:11] <Libby> okay, so here's an english version. You're covered only if it's a translated version with no add ons
[18:11] <@***Star***> and make their own engines out of it
[18:11] <@***Star***> libby with that you're pretty much saying go ahead and hack our program
01[18:11] <Libby> even that would be awesome
01[18:11] <Libby> no, just translate it
[18:11] <@***Star***> it's still hacking
[18:11] <@***Star***> the program
01[18:11] <Libby> if people want to hack it, nothing will stop them anyway
[18:12] <@***Star***> yeah but at least you can sue them
I mean, atleast they're being honest, but seriously, **** corporations and **** Enterbrain.
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Just stepping in to remind everyone to be polite in this discussion. I see it's getting a bit heated, and my CTRL+F powers picked up on "douchiness", so I'm just concerned that things might take off in a negative way.
Now that I've done my obligation as a moderator, I'm off to another adventure in some distant land (running on a more modern development engine). Hoof!
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Christ, that was a lot of bitching.
I...can't add anything to the topic.
Everything that CAN be said about this has been.
There are far, far better indy/hobbiest dev tools to throw your money at, as well as some free ones if you're adventurous and don't mind learning actual code (XNA/MonoGame, Unity, etc.).
Spending money on an old dinosaur like 2k3 isn't really a smart idea, and I'm fairly positive after the initial "hype" dies down after about a month, Enterbrain is going to agree with that sentiment [sp].
Seriously, just get Game Maker, or Stencyl, or something like that.
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How much do those both cost to use, one may ask.
20 dollars less than an edition of RM2k3 that hasnt been given the green light yet.
BOOYA
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Boggling my mind over here. I'm pretty sure damn-near everything you've ever used was pirated.
I only pirated things because I could never buy them. When I was younger my parents would never give me money to pay for things online, whatever kind of things they might be. Games were just something I was not allowed to spend money on.
But, guess what, I'm older now, and I've been doing some jobs here and there, and I have my own money to spend on things that I like.
@the thread:
Guys, calm down, you're being way too aggressive about the whole thing. Everyone involved.
I agree with Ben that if they were to release it for free it would surely bring a lot more attention into the company as a whole and all the fans would be pleased. It is a ten year old software, after all.
I also agree that if they were to make changes to it, even if minor, such as getting rid of all those limitations that hardly make any sense these days, that would also be great and would make it worth people's money.
Finally I will agree with Archem that things are getting a little too heated and that it would be very nice if everyone could calm down.
Liberty, I really like what you're doing and I can see that you take this seriously. But, sad as it may be, it seems that the community isn't very interested. It's a shame, really. I can't speak for everyone now, but I have to thank you for at least trying to do what you think is right.
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Oh, and
PS: How in the world do you hide things on this forum? Hide and Spoiler tags don't work...
We just had a update that didn't exactly go along too well and the forum is slightly broken. We're working on fixing it.
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I think I would buy it. I dunno, I just think that I would.
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I only pirated things because I could never buy them. When I was younger my parents would never give me money to pay for things online, whatever kind of things they might be. Games were just something I was not allowed to spend money on.
But, guess what, I'm older now, and I've been doing some jobs here and there, and I have my own money to spend on things that I like.
Alright, alright, I won't harp on about the subject any further.
...
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Alright, alright, I won't harp on about the subject any further.
...
:o
You're kidding!
Scandal.
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Probably not worth posting here but for those who are interested:
FAQ
Why now? Why not 10 years ago? (Edited to update facts.)
The simple answer? Because the community itself shot down any attempts EB tried at legalizing the product. After XP's release no one bothered asking for it.
The complete answer? Degica only took over the publishing of EB! products at the advent of XP. Up until that time Protexus was the publisher and they weren't really concerned with the English community. When Degica took over, they reached out to the Western community. It's thanks to them (and Agetec - the publishers of the console RMs who showed EB! that there was a market for RM product here) that we have any English makers at all. They also hadn't thought that it would be appreciated, so until a fan actually asked about it...
When they were asked they said, sure, let's see how much demand there is and if there's enough we'll do that.
Is it worth it for them to do this? Aren't they just wasting money that could be better spent on other things?
To quote Touchfuzzy, Admin of the official RM site:
I'm going to use variables because I have no idea exact costs. Let's say we have Project 1 and Project 2.
Project 1 costs x to produce, and brings in 10x
Project 2 costs 2x to produce, and brings in 10x
If we do just Project 1 we make 9x, if we do just Project 2 we make 8x. If we did BOTH projects, we could make 17x.
Hence why if something sounds like we will make x's we will find the money to do it. Also, translating 2k3 if it does work out, could make a good deal of money as it has low costs comparatively to bring over, that could be used to FUND other projects.
In other words, the money they make back on this can be used to make other projects, like more resources for the newer makers. How is it a waste of their time to hire a few translators to make an English version of a game that might net them some profit back from a product they missed out on thanks to a shoddy publisher?
Why should we pay for something we already have?
There are two main reasons and they both boil down to ethics.
The first is that it's illegal to use the engine. Okay, get the laughter out of your system. I'll wait.
Seriously though, supporting the system that has been loved and used so much over the years is a great thing. It makes you feel better, for one, and encourages Degica to listen to the fans about what they want, for two. Me, I like the idea of owning RM2K3. I like the thought that I've given back to the people who had such a large part of my youth. I remember the first time I even found out there was an RPG Maker and how awesome it was, thinking that I'd be able to make my own game, just like the ones I'd played in my childhood. I love the idea of giving something back for that.
Another reason is the RTP. Currently, unless you bought the Japanese version, using the RTP in any engine is illegal. Remember that RTP is sounds as well as graphics. The legal usage of a selection of music and sound effects... do I need to quote how much it costs to 'buy' music to use that flows and fits together? Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. Seriously.
Owning the program. In English. Legally. This means, barring any rips or other illegal content, you may sell your game.
Xp/VX/VXA are better! Also, do 2k instead!
That's not a question, but I'll respond anyway. Yes, they're better in a lot of ways, but for those looking to push themselves when it comes to eventing, for those who are new to the programs, for those who like old school RPG charm? 2k3 is a better bet.
2k... well, as much as I love 2k, 2k3 offers something that NONE of the other makers have. A default side-view battle system. Also, better eventing.
How much will this cost? They should add extra stuff!
I put these two together because they relate. Firstly, they've said right out that the cost would be set at $20. Not too bad, eh? This is a program in English and the RTP for use in any other engine. Neato~
Adding extra stuff would just drive up the price and make things harder on their end. A translation, maybe a bug fix for the agility issue... That's what they're offering. They aren't going to recode a whole new engine, they aren't going to add scripting features or higher resolution or redo the graphical side of the RTp or add self switches (;.;) because doing so would take away from their other projects and drive up the price.
But what about patches and things like Cherry's support programs? Aren't they illegal?
Yes, of course they are. To make the patches they had to mess with the source code of the game and that is against the EULA. That said, it's like using rips. It's illegal, but as long as you're not trying to sell the game and waving big red flags, Degica isn't likely to be bothered prosecuting you for it. I mean, how many prosecutions have there been with the pirated version? Or even with VX games that use the Tile Swap patch? I can think of two, perhaps, and those were really popular and well-known outside of the community.
It's like editing rom files. The companies won't go out of their way to police it unless someone throws up a flare of some sort (That one Chrono Trigger fangame comes to mind.)
Is this official or are you just trying to gather support for a cause that has no chance of occurring?
This is official. If 1000 signatures are raised, Degica will do this. Why? Because a fan asked. How awesome is that?
Any other questions? Just ask.
Also? This.
(http://rpgmaker.net/media/content/users/21676/locker/Legal_rm2k3_Flux.bmp)
Thanks to Iddalai for making it.
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There is next to zero market to sell 2k3 games. Your whole flow chart, and half of your argument depend on a theoretical "DONT YOU WANT TO SELL YOUR GAMES?!?"
The graphics and sound in the rtp have become the visual symbol for placeholder graphics in the world of indie RPG development. I made a post earlier about "the only people that but rpg maker games are the developers aunties and friends" Developers, publishers, enthusiast and hobby devs all look at things made with those graphics and UI and sounds, and make an instant judgement, wether you care to admit it or not. the judgment falls on the side of one of two scenarios
"If the developer had spent a tenth the time on gameplay as they did trying to make an overcomplicated game world and story this would be the best game ever" or
"Aww. thats cute. Junior made a toy"
You just listed all of these "facts", but its not a fact, if you've tainted it with opinion. Honestly, I hope your petition goes well. Because after you shell out your 20 dollars, so that you can ride your high horse around the RPGM world, sales of games made with rpg maker are never, ever, ever, ever going to be comprable to games made with other engines.
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Yes, yes, we get it. You're not buying. Proceed to live your life as usual.
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Lawl.
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Good post Liberty. That answered some questions
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I want it, so I can illegally own the English legal copy.
:D
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You guys make me sad.
Liberty, good luck with the whole thing. And if this works, let us know. I'm sure at least someone in the community will be interested.
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Hey, even if you wouldn't want to actually own it, you could still sign the petition so then it gets closer for those that do want it....
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I see no problem with that.
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Well, I'm not going to sign it for the simple reason that he thinks I adminned this site for years without looking into the legality of what we were doing and trying, completely futility, to make contact with these people to figure the situation out.
"The simple answer? Because no one bothered asking for it" my ***.
But the rest of you can do what you want.
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I'm sorry, allow me to ammend that.
The simple answer? Because the community itself shot down any attempts EB tried at legalizing the product. After XP's release no one bothered asking for it.
There, better.
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I doubt that. A lot of people kept using 2003 simply because of its ease of use.
I have to agree with Sai. You make this seem like some new concept; in reality it is an old concept that we gave up giving a **** about.