Grinding vs Taking Advantage of the System

[Archem]

You're right about that. The added mobility options means that you can pick where you want to train (even if the best spot is still right next to the Elite Four), and you can check out the rest of the distractions around the world.

[Prpl_Mage]

(even if the best spot is still right next to the Elite Four)

This. If you want efficient training you're probably gonna go where there are strong enemies and exp to be grinded. Going back to veridian city in Leaf green won't exactly pay out.
Can't remember which game made it so that enemies leveled and all their levels were relative. For example - a boss's level was [hero lvl+ 10] and some enemies were [hero lvl- 5] ect ect. That made levels unnecessary beside skill learning.

[Meiscool]

I know ff8 did something like that.

[Dragonium]

Oh hey, it's that guy I was totally tsundere for.

Honestly, I get a lot of the complaints about level scaling, but I think it can work. On the subject of FFVIII, of which I admittedly am still a fanboy asshat, I think it's the best incarnation of level scaling I've seen because it works in tandem with the Junction system. Enemy stats scale with your level, but their movesets, and subsequently the magic you can Draw from them, works in level bands (I think it's 0-20/20-50/50+ or something like that). Fight a Bite Bug at level 1 and you can draw Fire from it, come back at level 51 and it'll have Firaga. It keeps the challenge, but at the same time it means you can overtake the enemies, or be overtaken by them, depending on how well you figure out the Junction system. There were even abilities to level enemies up or down in case you wanted to get different things from them.

As a matter of fact, I think level scaling is even necessary sometimes. Somebody mentioned Lost Odyssey? See, I loved that game to the point where, when I hit the inevitable JRPG "point of no return" where you're right before the final boss and the impending apocalypse can wait an arbitrary length of time while you go around finishing sidequests, I went and did all the sidequests. I did the monstrously hard optional dungeons where you have to be status- and damage-proof, I did the entire arena minigame where Kaim has to be an absolute brick shithouse to beat that fucking knight who instantly one-shots you if you don't hit the right kind of attack, I did all of that. When I was done with everything, I decided it was time to finish the game, went through the whole atmospheric last dungeon up to Gongora, and it was time for the epic final conclusion.

I hit him once, and he went into FINAL FORM mode. I hit him again and he died. Needless to say it killed the whole atmosphere of the thing. In my opinion final bosses should always be level-scaled. You need them to be challenging and you can never anticipate how much grinding people will do.

[Prpl_Mage]

.
I did the monstrously hard optional dungeons where you have to be status- and damage-proof, I did the entire arena minigame where Kaim has to be an absolute brick shithouse to beat that fucking knight who instantly one-shots you if you don't hit the right kind of attack, I did all of that. When I was done with everything, I decided it was time to finish the game, went through the whole atmospheric last dungeon up to Gongora, and it was time for the epic final conclusion.

I hit him once, and he went into FINAL FORM mode. I hit him again and he died. Needless to say it killed the whole atmosphere of the thing. In my opinion final bosses should always be level-scaled. You need them to be challenging and you can never anticipate how much grinding people will do.

That's why those "hard raid end game dungeons" Should only be accessible after completing the game. For example that venomous pit of despair in Star ocean till the end of time. When you give people a dungeon with harder enemies than the last dungeon and bosses harder than the last boss iy's only rational to think that the player should play it after defeating named dungeon and boss. Making the final boss give you an item that's needed or that the extra dungeon is only available in new game + is the way to go.

[fruckert]

Level 5 understands that.
Hence why Zelmite Mines and the Ghost Ship are only possible after you beat the game.

**** Rogue Galaxy's final boss though.
~9-in-a-row boss rush, where if you die you have to start all over?
Kiind of fail game design, in my opinion.

...wait, Dark Cloud 2 did that as well, but I didn't care then.
Probs because my wrench/gun were godlike.

[Archem]

I'll have to agree.

[Moosetroop11]

That's why those "hard raid end game dungeons" Should only be accessible after completing the game. For example that venomous pit of despair in Star ocean till the end of time.

As far as I can remember, each and every boss could be killed by using maria(I think that was her name)'s attack buff move which didn't seem to have an upper limit over and over again and then just shooting a couple of times :p

[daoman89]

I don't mind grinding to a certain extent.  For basically all of the final fantasy games (i've beaten 1-9 and most of 10), I found it fun to grind for 30 minutes, then it got tedious.  My friend has been grinding on Final Fantasy IV After Years for a long time and he still gets his *** beat by Omega. 

Monster Hunter Tri I have spend waaay too much time playing.  Addictive as crap.  It took me 350 hours to finally get my Eternal Strife weapon -_-.  As Purple Mage said before, it would be pointless if you got the materials you wanted right away.  The customization possibilities in the game were great, not too little and not too much.  I made an armor set that I dubbed my Super Saiyan set.  Purple Mage may be the only one that would understand this (sorry to assume), but it has AuL, Adren +2, Fortify, and Stamina.  So when I died twice, my attack would be over 1800 hahaha. 

The Goldensun series didn't require much level grinding unlesss you wanted to take on the side quests.  And Chrono Cross, I don't think you really could level grind.  Chrono Trigger... I don't remember grinding in that game at all and if I did, it was for some sidequests.  I haven't gotten that far yet in Xenoblade Chronicles.  Fire Emblem always makes my heart race when you're watching to see if your men are gonna get killed or luckily dodge.  I enjoyed watching Ike never getting hit and then Aethering the hell outta people

Now on to pokemon white.  I play those because the strategy and variety in the games I believe to be great.  I find myself coming up with great strategies and then when I play the Japanese people online, they counter me!  And to me, that challenge makes it fun.  Those games allow you to grow your own unique team.  Level grinding in the game doesn't bother me much because I get to watch my guys grow and it's a satisfying feeling. 

I enjoyed Tales of Symphonia 1 and 2, Tales of the Abyss is all right, but I feel the games are lacking in nonbattle action.  I greatly enjoyed Secret of Mana when I figured out how to play correctly lol.  Anyways, I've said a lot.  I just wanted to state my opinions too haha

[Prpl_Mage]

Monster Hunter Tri I have spend waaay too much time playing.  Addictive as crap.  It took me 350 hours to finally get my Eternal Strife weapon -_-.
As Purple Mage said before, it would be pointless if you got the materials you wanted right away.  The customization possibilities in the game were great, not too little and not too much.
I made an armor set that I dubbed my Super Saiyan set.  Purple Mage may be the only one that would understand this (sorry to assume), but it has AuL, Adren +2, Fortify, and Stamina. 
So when I died twice, my attack would be over 1800 hahaha. 

Ah the rust weapons. I loved the sword and shield weapons. Just never got hooked by them. I prefer big blows that actually deal damage since most monsters tend to move around a lot.
And that sounds awesome, too bad that dying twice isn't a safe bet when playing online. People die from the most stupid things sometimes and quests fail the moment you're about to throw tranq bombs.
It's a shame my network got kinda wonky and interrupting my hunts online. I was trying to upgrade my dark switch axe into the black harvest but never succeeded. It's good that hunts are fun to play in the game and that you don't really get too strong for anything but the offline monsters and great jaggi.

[daoman89]

I wouldn't mind hunting with you sometime.  I'll use SnS on occasion, but I'm mostly a GS user.  I took on a Deviljho by myself.  I would've beaten him but he luckily comboed me...  Alatreon's are a bitch.  Neways, my hunter ID is... K4R9GV

[Dragonium]

I don't play Tri (because I don't have a Wii) but Monster Hunter gives me a massive boner. I've played 300+ hours on the PSP ones combined.

I'm not going anywhere with this, that's my whole point.

[Meiscool]

Can't really grind (till around level 60 when more powerful enemies can be hit with Melia) or take advantage of the system in xenoblade. Kind of a unique game.

Just beat Last Story for the wii. The game is good (overrated though), but it needs a tad of grinding or a guide to ensure that you do not miss any battles. You can also take advantage of the system in this one by spamming Gather, Hide, Slash, Burst, repeat.

[Prpl_Mage]

Can't really grind (till around level 60 when more powerful enemies can be hit with Melia) or take advantage of the system in xenoblade. Kind of a unique game.

Well, doing quest you usually outlevel most enemies without even wanting it. I just wanted the rewards.  And when you're some (like 5) levels above enemies they can't hit you. Like never, sometimes from the back but otherwise never. And trying to kill enemies some levels above you results in the opposite. They land everything and you miss everything. Except spells. Get some lightning plus gear, get som aggro reduction, spamm the lightning orb and then unleash three in a row and hopefully one in elemental rage mode and most enemies buckle under.

Just beat Last Story for the wii. The game is good (overrated though), but it needs a tad of grinding or a guide to ensure that you do not miss any battles. You can also take advantage of the system in this one by spamming Gather, Hide, Slash, Burst, repeat.

Yeah things weren't exactly clear in that game. Farming becomes such a common thing in new game+ to get the particles of the outsider that it's silly. Luckily that last cocoon from reptid cave drops 5.

I wouldn't mind hunting with you sometime. 

Do you happen to live in Europe? Otherwise that could be an issue.

[daoman89]

Do you happen to live in Europe? Otherwise that could be an issue.

haha no...  I'm an American.