Charas-Project

Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 10:00:59 PM

Title: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayaWIKM9iRE

I just can't stop loving this kinda stuff.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Darkfox on May 22, 2009, 10:26:57 PM
I thought there was a YT topic. Also, Julius is having a seizure or had too much coffee.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 10:37:44 PM
That is true, there is a YT movie, but this is not about the video, is about TAS in geneal.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: fruckert on May 22, 2009, 10:41:42 PM
I personally prefer non TA speedruns
They're far more impressive
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 11:02:57 PM
 I get where you're coming from, but I prefer TA speedruns because the others are just not... impressive. You get that feeling of "Even I could do that.", whereas nobody could ever do something like in an TAS video.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: fruckert on May 22, 2009, 11:06:57 PM
Main reason why I'm not too terribly impressed with TAS's is that it's hacking
You're not playing the game like it should have been, and as such, anybody can do it
Sure...it might take a little while to hack it, but then it's pretty badass to watch
Mainly because of the crazy **** that happens

However...watching somebody beat Super Metroid in 15 minutes with pure skill...holy ****ing ****
That's impressive as all hell
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Darkfox on May 22, 2009, 11:08:47 PM
I'm perfectly fine with modding, don't care much for speed-runs in general. They are funny to watch though, to see the characters spazzing out.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 11:12:11 PM
Main reason why I'm not too terribly impressed with TAS's is that it's hacking
You're not playing the game like it should have been, and as such, anybody can do it
Sure...it might take a little while to hack it, but then it's pretty badass to watch
Mainly because of the crazy **** that happens

However...watching somebody beat Super Metroid in 15 minutes with pure skill...holy ****ing ****
That's impressive as all hell

Not hacking. The game engine isn't tampered at all. They merely exploit it to the maximum capacity.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: fruckert on May 22, 2009, 11:14:05 PM
Tool Assisted means they used something to help
It doesn't always involve modding the game code, but it does mean using something beyond just your own pure skill

I just think non-TAS's are cooler, whatever
On with the topic
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 11:23:52 PM
The topic is about TAS, and about TAS we are talking.

And if by "Something to help" you meant "Savestates", then yes, you are right.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: fruckert on May 22, 2009, 11:30:53 PM
Either that or route plotters, slow-motion and frame by frame
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Darkfox on May 22, 2009, 11:40:14 PM
I have the patience to mod and hack a game. I don't quite have the patience for slow-motion. They astound me how they can actually sit through that. It sounds so tedious.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 11:40:14 PM
Well, yeah, but still, the savestates is like the main point. Also, frame-by-frame and slow-mo are the same thing, plus plotting rotes are done in normal speedruns as well.

Quote
I have the patience to mod and hack a game. I don't quite have the patience for slow-motion and frame by frame. They astound me how they can actually sit through that. It sounds so tedious.

 Well, yeah, it is. I tried to make a TAs once, and managed to do a pretty decent one if I do say so myself, but after a quick search, someone had already done one, and his video was 13 mins shorter than mine. So... yeah.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: fruckert on May 22, 2009, 11:44:24 PM
True, but I was referring to playing the game at a slower speed, such as .5x, and playing at a single frame, inputting a command, then proceeding it by hand for slo-mo and fbf
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 22, 2009, 11:50:07 PM
True, but I was referring to playing the game at a slower speed, such as .5x, and playing at a single frame, inputting a command, then proceeding it by hand for slo-mo and fbf

 I see. Well, yeah.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Archem on May 23, 2009, 12:19:39 AM
Fun to watch, but not really impressive. When you can basically just CTRL + Z any mistakes, it loses a lot of the impact. Skill jumps out the window and lands on a heap of unimpressed people who actually can do an impressive speedrun.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 23, 2009, 12:34:28 AM
Not really. Y'see, thing is most people think it's easy to do a Tool-Assisted Speedrun. It's not. You'd be impressed, indeed, if you took sometime to think how deep they had to think to figure out how to cut time down. Most TA speedruns nowadays manage to be better than the previous ones by 10 frames, if as much. Lot's of fine-tuning go inside this thing.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: FFL2and3rocks on May 23, 2009, 01:13:47 AM
I messed around with tool-assistance a little bit for GBA a couple years ago, but I only got the hang of some of the basics...

I still like watching them though.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Archem on May 23, 2009, 04:49:38 AM
Not really. Y'see, thing is most people think it's easy to do a Tool-Assisted Speedrun. It's not. You'd be impressed, indeed, if you took sometime to think how deep they had to think to figure out how to cut time down. Most TA speedruns nowadays manage to be better than the previous ones by 10 frames, if as much. Lot's of fine-tuning go inside this thing.
This is planning, though. Any good brain can plan. The follow-through isn't impressive because it's well planned. It's because it's well-performed. Think of it as a movie: Good story is very important, but without any talent or skillfully-executed performances by the actors, crew, etc., it's not a very impressive film. Apply it to video games: Good story + shitty graphics + assy-controls + awful camera angles + terrible voice work =/= a good game. Just a good concept. What we watch is a preview of the planned-out performance, not the actual performance. It's not impressive yet because it hasn't been performed legitimately yet.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 24, 2009, 02:51:01 AM
You're saying robot actors wouldn't be awesome?
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Archem on May 24, 2009, 03:06:43 AM
Are the robot actors made efficiently?
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Grandy on May 24, 2009, 11:19:34 PM
Are the robot actors made efficiently?

Think 'Wall-e'.
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Archem on May 25, 2009, 03:39:18 AM
So... HAL-9000?
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: Darkfox on May 25, 2009, 04:56:03 AM
HAL-9000 was the best actor in the movie. XD
Title: Re: Tool-Assisted Speedruns
Post by: DedlellyDeth on May 25, 2009, 05:43:39 AM
HAL-9000 was the best actor in the movie. XD

I consider him the most human character.