In need of Battle System

[Drighton]

I feel that my battle system is bland and is in need of improvement or complete revision. I have always admired Vagrant Story's battle system.

That being said, I am currently looking into transforming my game into a 3D environment with the purpose of implementing a VS system. However, I havn't the slightest clue about models and whatnot, so all this means is my project will restart, from scratch AGAIN (for the ... fourth time) if I decide I can handle it.

Not only will it require a greater understanding of DirectX, but also challange my abilities with Visual Basic. I very well may have to abandon my beloved language for a more versatile C++ environment, which would me a refresher course for me.

Its still possible that I will stick with my 2D game. Either way, I'm trying to find a battle system which will inspire me to make the jump forward in my game.

Here goes....

[WarxePB]

I'm slightly confused. Do you want a 2D BS, or a 3D BS?

Well, either way, the best way to make anything is to take ideas from existing projects and combine them.

[Drighton]

Hm. I want a 2D ABS for my game, however I feel it is too bland and leaning to the hack-and-slash side, which can make the player bored with the game.

In Vagrant Story, you had a chain-attack system, which added a little flavor to the game, on top of other things.

Currently, I am feeling a little uneasy with moving to 3D graphics, seeing as its a whole new playing field and not something for which I can just rip graphics off some old game until I can make my own. I feel a 3D environment would give me a lot of freedom in making a battle system. Ultimately I would take the Vagrant Story BS and tweak it a bit, since the only other game I know of that successfully did a chain attack type battle was Legend of the Dragoon for PSX.

Anywho, I'm sort of looking at finishing my game as 2D, with a mixed ABS with a few elements from different games I've played (thanks Warxe). Perhaps my game's second chapter will feature the 3D environment. Funny thing about all this is that I'm not even ready to program by BS yet... I still have to finish my Item system :p

Lets see how it goes....

P.S. I certainly hope I'm not wearing on the patience of the Mod who has to move my posts. I can't seem to find where they best fit and will get some looks (members seem to stay away from the programming forum).

[AsakuraHao2004]

Just think of a 3 letter acronym ending in S, like RMS, and plug in words for it, like Random Monkey System. Theres your battle system.

[Linkizcool]

If you look at the book i pmed you, drighton, it will show how to use a DX API to make a 3d system using VB, that runs as fast as one made with C++. No joke, im serious.

[Osmose]

A prototype I never made. Action is ABS, like an FFT that doesn't wait for your turn.

[MrMister]

Vagrant Story's BS wasn't based on the chains, they were only an inconvienience against regular enemies.  Legend of Dragoon was even less good, because it only involved one button, sometimes circle to stop a counter.

You need to be innovative and come up with a concept all your own.

[Drighton]

I am working out the details of a system as we speak, which I think will be very fun. However, I will have to adopt a non-standard character progression system: Attributes (Str, Dex, Int) will increase with use. No levels.

It will be an ABS, with a slightly complicated arrangement of attacks, parrys, ripostes, counterparrys, and deadlocks. Needless to say, an evenly matched battle could last a while. Therefore, the more difficult your opponent, and the longer the battle, the more experience you will gain.

There is also a concept taken from Star Wars Galaxies (Thanks Warxe ) in the attacks, and I am also looking to work a form of chain attacks into the whole mess (though looking at it now, chain attacks may already be implemented in a different fashion without my realizing) which may resemble Dark Age of Camelot (if I remember correctly, I only played it for a month).

Hope it comes out okay.  

@Osmose: Huh? ... looks different, but I think I might need it explained. Right now I'm thinking of a non-turn-based chess.

[WarxePB]

So, in other words, your system will be a giant multi-character duel. Awesome. Sounds like a good idea.

The "status increase with use" thing is what was used in FF2j instead of levels. I like that system, because you can decide what your characters can specialize in, and I'm all for complete customization. Although I would recommend limiting HP and MP growth to items, because losing a ton of HP and using a ton of healing items just to do the same thing in the next battle is kind of inefficient.


Moose - Damn, you just stole my idea! Oh well, my version is more like Drighton's system anyways, so it's all good.

[Osmose]

Think of FF7 with ABS turned on, where you wait for your meter to fill and then do your stuff,. At the same time, enemies do the same, and it doesn't pause when you go into a menu.

[Drighton]

Oh, i get it osmose. Its different, but I would be a hard candidate to convince. I'm not a fan of the older dissolve-to-battle games.

Originally posted by Warxe_PhoenixBlade
So, in other words, your system will be a giant multi-character duel. Awesome. Sounds like a good idea.

The "status increase with use" thing is what was used in FF2j instead of levels. I like that system, because you can decide what your characters can specialize in, and I'm all for complete customization. Although I would recommend limiting HP and MP growth to items, because losing a ton of HP and using a ton of healing items just to do the same thing in the next battle is kind of inefficient.

1) never played FF2j. What is that?
2) In my game thread I started listing character classes. It looks like I'm doing away with that. You can do as you please and are only limited by your attributes, not your "class".
3) You hit my next problem on the nose. One option I'm looking at is to have HP constantly regenerate. The other is, as you said, to have potions readily available ala Diablo.

The problem with the first solution is, while your fighting your opponent's HP is healing itself (sometimes faster than you can deal damage). This was a problem in SWG.
The problem with the second solution is that it will make players with a healing capacity obsolete. Potions everywhere, who needs a medic!?

 I'm leaning toward solution 1, but stop regeneration during battle and allow health to slowly regen out of battle during downtime, to be sped up through healing methods and potions crafted by players. This would require balancing, however, so that the player won't spend more hours healing than playing.

There is also another factor that is used in battle, which may or may not need to go.

[WarxePB]

1. FF2j is Final Fantasy 2, Japanese. FF2US (for the SNES) is actually FF4. In case you care.


3. Perhaps... certain items would raise statistics as well as heal the player. I've never played any of the Diablo games, so I'm not sure if that's what it does, but perhaps... a regular potion recovers HP by 150 and increases Max HP by 3 or 4. An item that cures a defense-reducing status also increases Defense a bit. An item that guards against a certain type of weapon or cures a status effect would increase your permanent resistance to it. It's still part of the same system, but just expanded to include items.

Of course, it's just a suggestion. I do kind of like the idea of auto-regenerating health in battle. Perhaps, not to make it too unfair, you only regenerate 1% health at a fixed interval, which is determined by a stat, so enemies with 5,000,000,000 HP wouldn't constantly be regenerating 50,000,000 HP.

[Drighton]

Yeah, I like auto regeneration too. However, I've decided not to let health regenerate during battle.

I've posted my conceptual battle system in the RPGMaker2k forum for discussion and feedback. Let me know what you think guys.

 My Battle System Concept

[Linkizcool]

My suggestion is not to have hp regenerate, unless he is in a defensive stance. Also, i would have the MP regenerate no mattter what he is doing.