Charas-Project
Off-Topic => All of all! => Topic started by: Meiscool on April 19, 2012, 03:45:53 AM
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Ever play a game where the only way to beat certain bosses was to grind? Ever played a game where the systems in play made levels obsolete? Posts your opinions of these things here.
One of my favorite games is white knight chronicles. Now, let me say, I hate the fact that wkc is a pure grind fest. Everything is dependent on your character levels. Why? Because you have to be certain levels to use equipment. This basically means that grinding that extra level can mean the difference between a boss raping you, and you raping a boss. This is made all the more grindy when you realize that you need 20+ of a 1% drop to max out your armor's stats, and blah blah blah. Still, I love that it is such a casual online game.
Another of my favorite games would be Darkcloud 2. In regards to DC2, you characters do not have levels. Instead, the weapons they have are leveled up. You could grind a certain weapon, but weapons can get outclassed fast in that game. It becomes less of a grind, and more of a "level this weapon for awhile, toss it, level the new one". However, there are no systems in the game to take advantage of. I would say that this game goes into the middle: A game where levels don't really make too much of a difference, no grinding required (nor is it really even helpful), and no systems to exploit the game.
Lastly, is Valkyrie Profile 2. Let me just say that this game is broken due to its systems. First off, enemies can be kited ad-infinite, so the battle system is already broken. What makes this worse is that the game is pseudo-turn based, so never letting an enemy have their turn results in easy (though time consuming) wins. Second to this is the fact that equipment can be used at any level (and equipment > personal stats), and stat enhancing items are easily available to you as soon as you get your third character (directly after the first fight). Lastly, these things called seal stones exist in the game. Seal stones grant your entire party an effect, as well as all enemies an effect. It is very possible to have seal stones that boost your attack by 600%, while lowering your enemy's defense and attack to (essentially) 0. This is a game where you can never fight a single thing and still do very well against boss fights just because you can exploit the out of battle systems to increase your character's stats rather than leveling. I like this game, because I learned very quickly that leveling matters very little (aside from unlocking attacks and spells).
Post your thoughts. Kinda a random topic, I know :D
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I'm fond of the Mario & Luigi games (not just any Mario RPG) because of the battle system. Grinding and leveling are bonuses that makes winning easier, but because of the timing-influenced combat, you can win a fight if your timing and attack pattern memorizing are good enough. You won't win solely off of that, but it makes it less of a pain in the *** for the grind-haters.
For the uninitiated (assuming there are any here), your attacks often have some sort of input that affects the attack efficiency (rapidly pressing a button, timing attacks for the most payout, simply pressing a button at the right time to land a power attack, etc.), as does defending against enemy attacks (jumping over fireballs, deflecting foes with your hammer, etc.). It makes you pay more attention in a fight, makes the encounter more interesting, and makes it so that, while levels are important, they aren't the only thing that matters.
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Yes, Mario and Luigi. I've only played Superstar Saga and I loved it.
The timed thing was great, indeed. Stronger attack when timed correctly or (if I recall) no or barely damage at all if timed poorly, defending and ending up unharmed afetr every combat (not that it happened because I wasn't all that great, but the possibility was there) etc.
I don't really like games where you are forced to grind, though. I like it when doing so just really help. But being forced to makes it kinda boring for me.
Can't think of any games where you can take advantage of the system, though...
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Good topic.
Xenoblade chronicles made it so that you get xp from doing one of million quests. Problem was that when I did all /most quests in the area I was - I usually outleveled even the monsters in the coming area. Upgrading skills on the other hand required SP and for higher levels certain books to unlock. Also there was TP which you used to learn passive boosts. Anyway. Levels made a lot of difference, mostly in this whole "evasion/block vs accuracy" formula that games like WoW have. To summarize it. If you are like 5 levels below a monster's level you'll miss like 90% of the time. If you are 5 levels above the monster they will miss you 90% of the time. So when you outleveled the monsters you barely needed a healer since noone took enough damage.
You guys already mentioned the mario rpgs, especially super star saga is a brilliant game. You can dodge attacks if your timing is right which makes it possible to beat most enemies and bosses without having to grind up 9999hp and 999defense.
Another game by our good nintendo friends is paper mario(at least the GC one) where leveling up gave you a choice of 3 things:hp which increases mario's hp by 5 or something, FP which is basically 5 mana, BP which is you" capacity" for badges that allows you to equip bonuses of different kinds.
Beside they have a similar system like superstar saga only less dynamic. Timing the A button with an enemy attack makes you guard it and take less damage. Pressing B at just right timing makes you counter attacks.
In resonance of fate you level up your weapon skills by using them in battle, all your weapon skill levels added together makes your level. So using handguns, smgs and grenades is beneficial for all characters for the HP increase and weight.
In Valkyria chronicles you level up your classes in one go. You have the scouts, the assault, the lancers, the engineers and the snipers. Spending your earned exp on a class to level it up unlocks new abilities and stats for all characters of that class. Each character have to be used to unlock personal traits / bonuses though. This is a great thing that more tactic games should introduce. Maybe not all at once but that others of the same class gain a percentage at least.
I do like the option to grind though. There are times when playing games when you are matched up with this strong enemy / boss and there's just something that makes you hate it. And there's nothing worse than entering your menu after a game over and realizing that you've reached the level cap for the chapter and there's no shop available so you just have to keep trying until you succeed.
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Grinding serves a well enough purpose, and if its done well,(so as to not feel like grinding) I can dig it. If I am in the mood, I can easily blow away a days worth of grinding in a game and somehow feel like I've done something.
However, If i feel like I am exploiting something within a game engine (not even a bug parse) I feel like I am way better at the game than I am. Fallout3 or The later Elderscrolls comes to mind. Bethesda is obviously not concerned about the 'bug' that lets you climb mountains my patiently jumping. And it makes me think Iam really effing sneaky. Or say Selling my "All" materia once it was at full level for a bajillion dollars in FF7...made me feel like I was exploiting something. But there is a fine line with exploits...you need to make the player feel like he has figured out something AWESOME and hasnt simply broken the game. Like when you fight a boss or some such, and discover there is just a sweet spot in a room you can sit and kill the guy off without having to move at all....that sort of thing ruins the experience for me
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Like when you fight a boss or some such, and discover there is just a sweet spot in a room you can sit and kill the guy off without having to move at all....that sort of thing ruins the experience for me
Ah, those bosses. Position yourself behind this pillar and all the bosses attacks will miss you. Great when you were a kid though and your fingers moved as slow as a sloth on antiseptics.
Speaking of grinding. I'm a grinding kind of guy. People around me don't get how I can spend hours doing something so monotonous like grinding or farming. I do prefer farming over grinding though. And the game that pops into my head directly is Monster hunter.
Lord knows how many times I've gathered a party online and set out to defeat the vicious lagiacrus, break his horns and then capture it in hopes of getting some Horn +. Love games that forces you to gather materials for your upgrades. People really seem to hate items that are random drop from enemies though. But the game is about murdering monsters so why not give us a good reason to do it beside some sort of Kill/death ratio? But it's nice when you can break the monster's horn to increase the chance at least, you get the feeling that you actually can affect your luck. Like you're in control.
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Ah, those bosses. Position yourself behind this pillar and all the bosses attacks will miss you. Great when you were a kid though and your fingers moved as slow as a sloth on antiseptics.
Speaking of grinding. I'm a grinding kind of guy. People around me don't get how I can spend hours doing something so monotonous like grinding or farming. I do prefer farming over grinding though. And the game that pops into my head directly is Monster hunter.
Lord knows how many times I've gathered a party online and set out to defeat the vicious lagiacrus, break his horns and then capture it in hopes of getting some Horn +. Love games that forces you to gather materials for your upgrades. People really seem to hate items that are random drop from enemies though. But the game is about murdering monsters so why not give us a good reason to do it beside some sort of Kill/death ratio? But it's nice when you can break the monster's horn to increase the chance at least, you get the feeling that you actually can affect your luck. Like you're in control.
I think games like this would benefit highly from some realism... for example, if you kill a dragon, the horns/claws/whatever are always gonna be there. But why are the drops random?
It would make sense to me if you are in a party of 6, then only 2 people would get a horn (if there are two horns). I feel that would be more "in control" than random drop chances. Especially since you could try and solo the dragon if you really wanted for a guaranteed 2 horns.
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But damaged and broken body parts can't be used in armors. So they might have 4 claws but there's only a 10% chance that you can use one of them for equipment.
Everyone get 3 carves(loot) from the monsters and then quest rewards. Also, the dragon can be killed in singleplayer but it's impossible to beat the dragon+ online without at least a party member. Getting all the aggro on your own is an invitation to death.
Still, I like that I have to kill it like 20 times to get what I want. If I got the item the first time I wouldn't have any reasons left to kill it. That's what I'm feeling that people are forgetting these days. When games are about killing stuff you should kill stuff. Most people want to kill 1 stuff and get everything needed. But when you have everything you needed you won't kill any more stuff. Bottom line is; killing stuff is fun and I should have some sort of drive to do it.
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I am godawful at grinding. Because I never seem to do enough of it. I get really bored from it. This is probably why I will never finish a final fantasy game. -_-"
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Personally I prefer taking advantage of the system. I've ran through almost every RPG experience as if it was a low level challenge. I remember doing this the most with Final Fantasy 8. I know the enemies actually change in strength based on your level, but I managed to get all the way to Griever just by playing smartly. I can't remember exactly what I did to beat the game, but I felt I had to go back and gain some levels at that point. Something similar happened with Lost Odyssey. Got to near the end of the fourth disc with my methods.
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I dislike grinding in games like, say, Disgaea, Makai Kingdom, or Scott Pilgrim vs The World.
Because in those games the numbers are so broken, if you grind a little you become way too overpowered for your own good, one-shotting all but the thoughest enemies, and most strategy gets tossed out of the window.
I still love them for different reasons, though.
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Personally I prefer taking advantage of the system. I've ran through almost every RPG experience as if it was a low level challenge. I remember doing this the most with Final Fantasy 8. I know the enemies actually change in strength based on your level, but I managed to get all the way to Griever just by playing smartly. I can't remember exactly what I did to beat the game, but I felt I had to go back and gain some levels at that point. Something similar happened with Lost Odyssey. Got to near the end of the fourth disc with my methods.
Very similar to my gameplay, only I'm not trying to do that. I always end up being incredibly under-leveled late-game. Pokémon is my best example. I always do my thing, then find I need to grind for twenty or thirty levels to beat the Elite Four.
Yes, I get to the Elite Four with level twenty-to-thirty Pokémon, and yes, I've already told this story. A few times. For a few different games. Right now, I'm working on finally beating Leaf Green. Only another ten levels per member, and I'll finally be ready.
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I remember playing FF4 many years ago and running from the harder battles rather than training up. It got ridiculous to the point where I couldn't physically win a single battle and the dark elf guy in the magnetic cave wiped me out every single time. At that point in the game I couldn't even go back to a place where I could train up XD
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I played that game a few times, and all except the final time, I got stuck at the same place. It's not like I ran from battles or anything, but I still managed to be quite under-leveled. It's a curse, I swear.
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Very similar to my gameplay, only I'm not trying to do that. I always end up being incredibly under-leveled late-game. Pokémon is my best example. I always do my thing, then find I need to grind for twenty or thirty levels to beat the Elite Four.
Yes, I get to the Elite Four with level twenty-to-thirty Pokémon, and yes, I've already told this story. A few times. For a few different games. Right now, I'm working on finally beating Leaf Green. Only another ten levels per member, and I'll finally be ready.
Strangely Pokemon is the only game where I don't mind grinding for the Elite Four. I think it's because you can easily travel the world at that point, via Fly, Surf, or otherwise. You can plan how you're going to train. In a lot of other RPGs, it's feels like you're stuck in one place if you don't spend the extra time backtracking. I guess that having that freedom of movement in the game's world makes it easier for me.
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You're right about that. The added mobility options means that you can pick where you want to train (even if the best spot is still right next to the Elite Four), and you can check out the rest of the distractions around the world.
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(even if the best spot is still right next to the Elite Four)
This. If you want efficient training you're probably gonna go where there are strong enemies and exp to be grinded. Going back to veridian city in Leaf green won't exactly pay out.
Can't remember which game made it so that enemies leveled and all their levels were relative. For example - a boss's level was [hero lvl+ 10] and some enemies were [hero lvl- 5] ect ect. That made levels unnecessary beside skill learning.
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I know ff8 did something like that.
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Oh hey, it's that guy I was totally tsundere for.
Honestly, I get a lot of the complaints about level scaling, but I think it can work. On the subject of FFVIII, of which I admittedly am still a fanboy asshat, I think it's the best incarnation of level scaling I've seen because it works in tandem with the Junction system. Enemy stats scale with your level, but their movesets, and subsequently the magic you can Draw from them, works in level bands (I think it's 0-20/20-50/50+ or something like that). Fight a Bite Bug at level 1 and you can draw Fire from it, come back at level 51 and it'll have Firaga. It keeps the challenge, but at the same time it means you can overtake the enemies, or be overtaken by them, depending on how well you figure out the Junction system. There were even abilities to level enemies up or down in case you wanted to get different things from them.
As a matter of fact, I think level scaling is even necessary sometimes. Somebody mentioned Lost Odyssey? See, I loved that game to the point where, when I hit the inevitable JRPG "point of no return" where you're right before the final boss and the impending apocalypse can wait an arbitrary length of time while you go around finishing sidequests, I went and did all the sidequests. I did the monstrously hard optional dungeons where you have to be status- and damage-proof, I did the entire arena minigame where Kaim has to be an absolute brick shithouse to beat that fucking knight who instantly one-shots you if you don't hit the right kind of attack, I did all of that. When I was done with everything, I decided it was time to finish the game, went through the whole atmospheric last dungeon up to Gongora, and it was time for the epic final conclusion.
I hit him once, and he went into FINAL FORM mode. I hit him again and he died. Needless to say it killed the whole atmosphere of the thing. In my opinion final bosses should always be level-scaled. You need them to be challenging and you can never anticipate how much grinding people will do.
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I did the monstrously hard optional dungeons where you have to be status- and damage-proof, I did the entire arena minigame where Kaim has to be an absolute brick shithouse to beat that fucking knight who instantly one-shots you if you don't hit the right kind of attack, I did all of that. When I was done with everything, I decided it was time to finish the game, went through the whole atmospheric last dungeon up to Gongora, and it was time for the epic final conclusion.
I hit him once, and he went into FINAL FORM mode. I hit him again and he died. Needless to say it killed the whole atmosphere of the thing. In my opinion final bosses should always be level-scaled. You need them to be challenging and you can never anticipate how much grinding people will do.
That's why those "hard raid end game dungeons" Should only be accessible after completing the game. For example that venomous pit of despair in Star ocean till the end of time. When you give people a dungeon with harder enemies than the last dungeon and bosses harder than the last boss iy's only rational to think that the player should play it after defeating named dungeon and boss. Making the final boss give you an item that's needed or that the extra dungeon is only available in new game + is the way to go.
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Level 5 understands that.
Hence why Zelmite Mines and the Ghost Ship are only possible after you beat the game.
**** Rogue Galaxy's final boss though.
~9-in-a-row boss rush, where if you die you have to start all over?
Kiind of fail game design, in my opinion.
...wait, Dark Cloud 2 did that as well, but I didn't care then.
Probs because my wrench/gun were godlike.
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I'll have to agree.
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That's why those "hard raid end game dungeons" Should only be accessible after completing the game. For example that venomous pit of despair in Star ocean till the end of time.
As far as I can remember, each and every boss could be killed by using maria(I think that was her name)'s attack buff move which didn't seem to have an upper limit over and over again and then just shooting a couple of times :p
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I don't mind grinding to a certain extent. For basically all of the final fantasy games (i've beaten 1-9 and most of 10), I found it fun to grind for 30 minutes, then it got tedious. My friend has been grinding on Final Fantasy IV After Years for a long time and he still gets his *** beat by Omega.
Monster Hunter Tri I have spend waaay too much time playing. Addictive as crap. It took me 350 hours to finally get my Eternal Strife weapon -_-. As Purple Mage said before, it would be pointless if you got the materials you wanted right away. The customization possibilities in the game were great, not too little and not too much. I made an armor set that I dubbed my Super Saiyan set. Purple Mage may be the only one that would understand this (sorry to assume), but it has AuL, Adren +2, Fortify, and Stamina. So when I died twice, my attack would be over 1800 hahaha.
The Goldensun series didn't require much level grinding unlesss you wanted to take on the side quests. And Chrono Cross, I don't think you really could level grind. Chrono Trigger... I don't remember grinding in that game at all and if I did, it was for some sidequests. I haven't gotten that far yet in Xenoblade Chronicles. Fire Emblem always makes my heart race when you're watching to see if your men are gonna get killed or luckily dodge. I enjoyed watching Ike never getting hit and then Aethering the hell outta people :)
Now on to pokemon white. I play those because the strategy and variety in the games I believe to be great. I find myself coming up with great strategies and then when I play the Japanese people online, they counter me! And to me, that challenge makes it fun. Those games allow you to grow your own unique team. Level grinding in the game doesn't bother me much because I get to watch my guys grow and it's a satisfying feeling.
I enjoyed Tales of Symphonia 1 and 2, Tales of the Abyss is all right, but I feel the games are lacking in nonbattle action. I greatly enjoyed Secret of Mana when I figured out how to play correctly lol. Anyways, I've said a lot. I just wanted to state my opinions too haha
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Monster Hunter Tri I have spend waaay too much time playing. Addictive as crap. It took me 350 hours to finally get my Eternal Strife weapon -_-.
As Purple Mage said before, it would be pointless if you got the materials you wanted right away. The customization possibilities in the game were great, not too little and not too much.
I made an armor set that I dubbed my Super Saiyan set. Purple Mage may be the only one that would understand this (sorry to assume), but it has AuL, Adren +2, Fortify, and Stamina.
So when I died twice, my attack would be over 1800 hahaha.
Ah the rust weapons. I loved the sword and shield weapons. Just never got hooked by them. I prefer big blows that actually deal damage since most monsters tend to move around a lot.
And that sounds awesome, too bad that dying twice isn't a safe bet when playing online. People die from the most stupid things sometimes and quests fail the moment you're about to throw tranq bombs.
It's a shame my network got kinda wonky and interrupting my hunts online. I was trying to upgrade my dark switch axe into the black harvest but never succeeded. It's good that hunts are fun to play in the game and that you don't really get too strong for anything but the offline monsters and great jaggi.
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I wouldn't mind hunting with you sometime. I'll use SnS on occasion, but I'm mostly a GS user. I took on a Deviljho by myself. I would've beaten him but he luckily comboed me... Alatreon's are a bitch. Neways, my hunter ID is... K4R9GV
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I don't play Tri (because I don't have a Wii) but Monster Hunter gives me a massive boner. I've played 300+ hours on the PSP ones combined.
I'm not going anywhere with this, that's my whole point.
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Can't really grind (till around level 60 when more powerful enemies can be hit with Melia) or take advantage of the system in xenoblade. Kind of a unique game.
Just beat Last Story for the wii. The game is good (overrated though), but it needs a tad of grinding or a guide to ensure that you do not miss any battles. You can also take advantage of the system in this one by spamming Gather, Hide, Slash, Burst, repeat.
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Can't really grind (till around level 60 when more powerful enemies can be hit with Melia) or take advantage of the system in xenoblade. Kind of a unique game.
Well, doing quest you usually outlevel most enemies without even wanting it. I just wanted the rewards. And when you're some (like 5) levels above enemies they can't hit you. Like never, sometimes from the back but otherwise never. And trying to kill enemies some levels above you results in the opposite. They land everything and you miss everything. Except spells. Get some lightning plus gear, get som aggro reduction, spamm the lightning orb and then unleash three in a row and hopefully one in elemental rage mode and most enemies buckle under.
Just beat Last Story for the wii. The game is good (overrated though), but it needs a tad of grinding or a guide to ensure that you do not miss any battles. You can also take advantage of the system in this one by spamming Gather, Hide, Slash, Burst, repeat.
Yeah things weren't exactly clear in that game. Farming becomes such a common thing in new game+ to get the particles of the outsider that it's silly. Luckily that last cocoon from reptid cave drops 5.
I wouldn't mind hunting with you sometime.
Do you happen to live in Europe? Otherwise that could be an issue.
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Do you happen to live in Europe? Otherwise that could be an issue.
haha no... I'm an American.
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haha no... I'm an American.
The only bad thing I can say about living in Sweden is that most online gamer people seem to be from countries outside Europe.
Playing monster hunter tri online nets you tons of french, italian and german players. Problem is that their preset messages and such are in their own languages. Also item names, and skill names. Communicating gets kinda annoying. And no offense against every other country but I hate the fact that people can't learn english.
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I hate not learning English. It's, like, my favorite language!
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Yeah, English was the first language I learned and the last. That's quite a lot of language learning right there boyo!!!!!
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So is your mother. *snap*
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I learned Spanish, then dubbed it unimportant and forgot about it hahaha
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I learned English with video games and with school, since it's mandatory here.
First, school helped me understand video games. Then, video games helped me get better in English class.
So games helped me more than class. Yeah.
And yeah, I don't like being forced to grind.
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Yeah, grinding English can be a pain.
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Back when I was like 7 or 8 I started learning english because of pokemon. It may sound silly. But kids barely knew that blizzard was an ice based attack until I told them. When playing pokemon most people ran all over the place to find out where to go next in the game. A lot of people never found Erika's gym ect.
For people not knowing english it was like trial and error to find the right person to talk to because nothing on that screen made sense.
And then I played games like final fantasy, zelda and diablo as well. Also heroes of might and magic. Descriptions on skills and such weren't wall of texts back in those days luckily.
Loot farming is becoming a pretty common element in games these days. Enemies have a chance to drop something nice that some ugly guy wants 4 of. A lot of people are complaining about these kind of things like "OMg random chance drops sucxxor". Sure it can drain some time if you're unlucky but at least you're killing those monsters for a reason. Nothing worse than putting enemies in a place, in a game. And then there's no reason to even poke at them.
Speaking of monsters. Beastairies in games. Love these if they actually supply you with some sort of information. Preferably the monster level, exp gained, gold dropped and items dropped. Also weaknesses are pretty nifty to read up on when it isn't a game than tells you that "it's super effective" when you use the right stuff in combat.
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You didn't have Swedish Pokemon? But yeah, for monster hunter you usually always have a reason to fight a monster. Whether it being materials, a grudge, or just to get that title for killing X amount of times. And as you keep fighting it, you learn about its weaknesses and then you mess with it and beat its ***. I used to have trouble killing Barroth, but now HE has trouble hitting me. Ppl are like why isn't Dave healing!?!?. It's because I went super saiyan kids and Barroth can't beat me. I think Purple Mage will agree with me here... They should've made Rathalos more bad *** by having him fly around the sky shooting a barrage of fire balls. Anyways people like getting awards for accomplishments, sure pride is nice but award addition is better :D
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Swedish pokemon? We only get EA games with swedish subtitles and menu. And that's just these last years. Not worth translating a a game into a language that only 9 million people speak after all.
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Actually, 9 million with only X% of which play games, and a smaller percent interested in each specific game, it does sound like a reasonable business assumption that it's not worth the extra time and money to translate an entire game, especially those wordy RPGs.
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Actually, 9 million with only X% of which play games, and a smaller percent interested in each specific game, it does sound like a reasonable business assumption that it's not worth the extra time and money to translate an entire game, especially those wordy RPGs.
My point exactly. Games are usually just translated into German, French and Spanish. Also sometimes Dutch and Italian. Donno if that's because it's worth it or that those people speak bad english.
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I'm sure there's a bigger reason at hand. I hear that illegal software is pretty overwhelming in Portuguese-speaking countries. This could be related. Maybe not a direct relationship, like "They keep pirating, let's spite them!", but probably something along the lines of very high import tax rates, exchange rates resulting in low income, government policies regarding the software in question, etc.
I should brush up on this stuff so I can offer a better explanation. Simply "Because we don't feel like it" seems like a weak excuse.
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My point exactly. Games are usually just translated into German, French and Spanish. Also sometimes Dutch and Italian. Donno if that's because it's worth it or that those people speak bad english.
Or English. How would it suck if Japanese games weren't?
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Lol this got so off topic. I've always wondered though... Do other languages have slang? Cause English is full of slang and I wear black people (not to sound racist or stereotypical) made their own English sub-language. I'll read things like "Dat bull be winging the jaunt up the curb so sick of it some bull ****." And I'm like uhhh... wtf!? Or maybe they're just poorly educated? America's not as perfect as you may thing ladies and gentlemen! Equality my ***!!
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Every languages have their slang, I'm fairly sure.
Also, I'm fairly sure what you meant is "I hear", unless you actually do wear black people. Like, their skin or something. I'm afraid this might be considered racism, though.
And yeah, off-topicness is sort of common, here.
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Usually we go off topic on like the third post.
It's almost always Archem's fault.
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lol *hear!! i meant hear!! I want Monster Hunter 4 soooooooooo badly....
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It's almost always Archem's fault.
God damn it all.
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I've always wondered though... Do other languages have slang? Cause English is full of slang and I hear black people (not to sound racist or stereotypical) made their own English sub-language. I'll read things like "Dat bull be winging the jaunt up the curb so sick of it some bull ****." And I'm like uhhh... wtf!? Or maybe they're just poorly educated? America's not as perfect as you may thing ladies and gentlemen! Equality my ***!!
Of course every language have slang. It's not just the product of immigration though. Language change over time, otherwise ya'll be speaking oldé English and spell like the Britts. Swedish is one of those languages that changes rapidly. We adapt expressions from many of all the different cultures that becomes a part of sweden at the same time that the difference in accent varies a lot even between the south and northern parts of Sweden. And to make thing even worse - the formal swedish which is usually presented in books and politics is nowhere near how people speak ordinarily.
Also, a lot of internet slang is finding it's way into most societies these days. Stuff like "omg", "lol", "brb", "leeching", "tanking", "denying", "o rly?", "nigga stole my bike", "trolling" - you name it.
In an attempt to get back on track.
Grinding can be made good and grinding can be made bad. An example of bad is Soul calibur 5. I've been fighting battles and battles trying to max dat player level and it just takes so many point to get remotely near it.
A little like monster hunter tri when you're trying to level up your rank online to get better quests. You're gonna spend some hours killing the royal ludroth and the rathian unless you find a party of people who can deliver.
FFX sphere grid was something I liked though, I actually find that attribute increasing on choice is a good thing. Just like Diablo 2 when you could place all 5 points into Vitality and gain some more hp to avoid that 1 shot. Problem is that you can usually take advantage of that and make a serious glasscannon that need to stay out of harms way at all costs.
Speaking of diablo 2 and sphere grids. In the shadow of Diablo 3 some people are creating some game called Path of exile. The people developing this game was probably some people upset with the changes blizzard made for the third game and decided to do their own. It looks like diablo 2 and the interface is almost snagged from it. Only that instead of level up you have a the FFX spheregrid(times 5) to place points in.
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I've found that, up until the most recent games, Pokémon's grinding was unbearable. In most games, monsters tend to be of a certain level to reflect your point in the game, and award XP accordingly. Pokémon has had issues with this. The Pokémon you find in the wild are often a good ten or more levels lower than the trainers/gym you're about to face, and the experience payoff is a bit lower than you'd expect, meaning that your grinding can become tedious. Combine this with the fact that, unlike traditional RPGs, you gain experience for one party member at a time, with a maximum of six, versus the typical four, and that any attempt to share experience results in smaller fractions of the original XP, and you get a very hard grind. To make matters worse, there's a good chance that your party isn't properly balanced for what lies ahead, meaning that you have to train some other Pokémon to fill in a role. More than likely, they're also a decent number of levels below your current lineup, so that's another twenty levels of grinding instead of ten. Lastly, only trainer-raised Pokémon offer a good XP reward; wilds often lag behind considerably, despite being the same or even greater levels. The limited nature of trainer fights makes grinding that much more of a hassle. Type advantage can only go so far, but playing that card is vital, so you'll see yourself grinding a team you wouldn't use normally just to get over the hump.
I like that trainers are plentiful (infinite, even) in Black and White, and that Lucky Eggs exist for a 50% XP bonus. I love the inclusion of Audino, especially the rare trainer-owned ones. Easy kill, tons of XP. The last two games really addressed the long-standing issue of the lousy grind the games have had for so long.
And in case anyone forgot, yeah, I have big issues with getting to the end of the game severely underleveled. I'm currently playing Leaf Green, and have been grinding a team up to level 55-60 for the Elite Four, and they started in their 20s (except for Charizard, who was in his 30s from always being in the party). It's been an active issue.
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I like that trainers are plentiful (infinite, even) in Black and White, and that Lucky Eggs exist for a 50% XP bonus. I love the inclusion of Audino, especially the rare trainer-owned ones. Easy kill, tons of XP. The last two games really addressed the long-standing issue of the lousy grind the games have had for so long.
This.
Best thing ever.
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Weirdly, I never, ever had a problem with pokemon. I don't feel like I trained all that much, but no-one has ever been that hard. I usually don't beat the elite four first time, but the exp I get from losing to them a couple of times is sometimes enough :p
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I usually don't beat the elite four first time, but the exp I get from losing to them a couple of times is sometimes enough :p
Waaaaiiiiit...
You lose against the elite four and you don't restart the game? As in, you get all whited out and you let yourself be transported back to the pkmn centre with a loss? I don't get it.
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I would do that too to train my guys lol. Just spend all of your money on stuff so it doesn't matter if you lose. It's the best way to level up to prepare yourself for the elite four!! I didn't do that for black or white though.... I just laid down the smack and got it done. Speaking of pokemon, what's y'all B&W friend codes?? I wanna perhaps battle against somebody other than japanese cuz they beat my butt most of the time lol. They have the blaziken with speed boost... Now that's just not fair lol 1807-1777-7009 Dave
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I would share mine, but my DS is old and the wi-fi doesn't quite work like it used to, so I can't maintain a solid connection. I've tried it with friends, and it's like I'm just standing there, doing nothing.
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Waaaaiiiiit...
You lose against the elite four and you don't restart the game? As in, you get all whited out and you let yourself be transported back to the pkmn centre with a loss? I don't get it.
That's right. You lose a bit of money; big whoop. You get tons of exp from battles before you're beaten. I don't think it detracts from the game immersion; my character's a 'fail once, try again' type guy.
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I find myself blowing a ton of cash on stuff in an effort to maintain exact amounts of all items, so losing my already limited supply of cash can be a significant loss.
Just sayin'.
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I spend all my money on nutrients, without fail... I'm always changing my team so I always need more
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That's right. You lose a bit of money; big whoop. You get tons of exp from battles before you're beaten. I don't think it detracts from the game immersion; my character's a 'fail once, try again' type guy.
See, I've always been a "You lose, you fail and don't deserve to live; restart and make it as if that lost never happened" guy.
Also, I love having tons of money for the purpose of having tons of money.
I always level with underlevelled foes, which indeed can take a very long time and make the game boring and too repetitive, which then leads me to stop playing for a while. Yeah.
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See, I've always been a "You lose, you fail and don't deserve to live; restart and make it as if that lost never happened" guy.
Yeah although I would rather put it like "If you lose you restart and do it over and do it right." That's how i play games. I hate the way FFXIII gave me the option to restart battles I lost the moment I lost them. I always clicked "return to main menu" out of principle. I'm kinda stuck like that.
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I'm now leaving the thread because I'm [random offensive adjective] and refuse to even try black and white, so I should also avoid talking about it.
Refusal to try something is one way to really irritate me.
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Grinding is why I stopped playing pokemon. EVs only made grinding even less fun. I like the concept of EVs but implementing them like that it is just bastardly of Gamefreak.
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In regards to the pokemon exp system and not wanting to share exp... several rpgs DO share the exp. Valkyrie profile is one that I can rattle off the top of my head. It will say you earned 4000 exp from the fight, but each of the four members will really only get 1000. The persona/devil summoner series is also another example of this. I believe that .hack GU did something similar to this as well. I know of others too, but can't name them off with complete certainty as to how the exp system works.
I'm not much of a fan of games that give separate EXP to people though. Essentially, you can grind one character for a small while, to the point where they can solo stuff, and proceed through the game with that single character. In typical rpgs you will often be getting 4x experience, enough to keep you over-leveled, and in games like pokemon, you will doubtlessly be strong enough to kill anything you come across. I remember Pokemon Platinum, my piplup took me through the whole game. I don't think I used a single other pokemon besides HM slaves.
@purple: Any real reason for me to do new game+ for Last Story? I beat Zan and you-know-who after him, then quit. Not sure if there was a wedding cutscene in the epilogue or not... kinda stopped caring.
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@purple: Any real reason for me to do new game+ for Last Story? I beat Zan and you-know-who after him, then quit. Not sure if there was a wedding cutscene in the epilogue or not... kinda stopped caring.
Storywise, nothing changes. There are two epilogue dungeons. One by talking to horace in his shop and one by examining the painting in Callista's room. Also there's a certain someone you promised a duel waiting in the castle's tomb thingy.
Pretty much, you can upgrade all equipment to lvl 99, also upgrade weapons such as the zan lance, traive, the online weapons (claw sword, eclipse, dragon fang ect) and all the joke weapons (hoe, chair, pitchfork ect).
Also, all bosses get a huge level boost in new game+, also ogres and reptid gladiators. And replaying a dungeon in new game plus gives all monsters a ridiculous level boost.
So that's about it. You start a new game with all the stuff you had earlier, can upgrade all items further and the enemies are harder.
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I don't like the reliance on a single Pokémon. I did it for Red and Gold, but I don't like doing it these days. It feels cheap, and puts me at a massive risk if my lead gets KOed.
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True that. I always have my party close to each other's levels. I trained my Scizor (I named her Strife) from a low level and it's fun to grind the ones you like (hahahaha no pun intended). Anyways, she's a monster with i think 393 attack at level 100 and has the ability to increase weaker moves so her Bullet Punch is beast. Combined with my Baton Passers, she always makes my opponent quit if things go right lol. Grinding in my opinion isn't an issue if there's a reward for doing it in the end, you know?
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I don't like relying on a single Pokémon either, yet, I don't like grinding levels for all my party. Probably why I grew bored of it...
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I hate relying on my starter. I never pick the water type and I always end up picking the grass. Dammit I make bad decisions lol
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Fire every time. It's how I roll. Coincidentally, the fire starters always look the coolest to me.
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Fire every time. It's how I roll. Coincidentally, the fire starters always look the coolest to me.
Too bad that infernape was such a bad starter. Picking it was a bad decision, torterra and empoleon both kicked his ***.
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Infernape is faster and can one shot both of them though... (Fire and Fighting cover Grass and Steel).
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Never seen an infernape 1 shot any of the other starters. But infernape gets killed by earthquakes and psychics. Big time.
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He'd be beast if you Baton Pass him some defense and special defense lol
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Nah, he doesn't have the HP to warrant baton passing some defense to him. Plus, his best attacks lower his def and cause recoil damage to him, so there would be no point in trying to preserve him. He is pretty much a glass cannon.
Close combat would definitely kill empoleon if infernape had a helpful nature and max atk EVs... not so sure if fire blast/flare blitz would do away with torterra in one hit without life orb (but really... who would run nape without it?), but it could.
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Buddy Jesus, you've got me covered.
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No one can cover Dark/Ghost type :P
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Yeah right, I'm nv going back to classic pokemon. Not fun anymore to be honest. If you give Infernape some level 6 evasion and defenses, he'll be tough to beat. I won't lie though, I've never used him hahaha. If you want to u can give infernape substitute with his stats from baton pass and then his recoil moves will be negated for a bit unless u have leftovers. This is why new pokemon is so much more fun cuz there's way more strategies to use.
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Agreed. Personal skills, newer skills, etc. really give pokemon strategy. Breloom with poison orb? Recover 1/8th HP each round + immunity to status effects, yum. Vaporeon in the rain with Rest and Hydration = Tank with heightened attack power and a full HP recover with no draw backs... plus status immunity. Double Yum.
So many more possibilities than the old games :D
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I would be honored if we could battle one day Jesus lol. 1807-1777-7009
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No one can cover Dark/Ghost type :P
One of the perks of being me.
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I would be honored if we could battle one day Jesus lol. 1807-1777-7009
Maybe, I've never actually done online battle with people I can't physically reach and punch in the face for being a dick.
Do you use non-trio legendaries? If not I'll consider dusting off my ol' pkmn white for a scuffle.
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I hate it when people use legendaries online! They're cheap cuz they can't beat me without them lol
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Can you use items online? Cuz there's nothing I hate more than metagross and bronzomg spammin inner calm and nasty plot, and when I'm finally about to kill it the arse of a trainer pops a full restore and we're now facing a bronzomg with insane stats and full hp. Cue for psychic and EQ spam.
I tend to skip the legendaries, Don't want to mess them up. More of a collectors prize. Only times i used them was back in the B/R, G/S/C days before you actually learned to play the game. Also in White in the final battle after catching it. It and every other poke in that battle were higher than my team so I figured I might as well use it. Dragon electric is one awesome combination.
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No you cannot but you can do something called Wonder Launcher battles that reward you with items to turn the tide. You're welcome to join me and Jesus in battles. As of right now, I'm only a single battle guy cuz I haven't thought of any double or triple battle strategies.
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Jellicant + Metagross is a fun double pair. Water can cover fire/earth for meta, and when meta asplodes, it won't hurt Jelli.
Other than that I can't think of any off the top of my head, except for the obvious Politod/Anything with Rain and Ninetails/Anything with Sun.
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I tend to skip the legendaries [...] (except) [...] in White in the final battle after catching it. It and every other poke in that battle were higher than my team so I figured I might as well use it.
Ditto. I was doing my deeply under-leveled thing again, but I figured I'd run through and see how tough the Elite Four would be this time. Well, my good battle habits just barely squeaked through, so I decided to go for broke and save my game before the final battle(s). Legendary shows up, kicks an *** or two, dies, and I get into the next fight, barely hanging on, and learn that Hydreigon knows everything. Hated that part. After another couple of tries, I finally won, and went off to grind infinitely.
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and learn that Hydreigon knows everything. Hated that part.
Dittos. Frigging dark dragon combo.
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I was all "Oh, a dragon? Where's my ice type?" and he was all "Focus Blast!", so I said "How 'bout dragon?" and he was all "Dragon Pulse", so I threw in a fire type, because why not, and he surfed the hell out of him, and I countered with my grass type, and he said "Fire Blast!", and then I was pissed.
Seriously, run-on sentence aside, what gives him the right to one-hit 2/3 of my team?
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Hahahahaha Archem had a rough time :P And what's the deal with not giving out the pal pad codes?
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Aren't they in that other thread with friend codes and such?
My problem is that I still have a DS lite and not a DSi or 3ds. Well, that's not a problem itself but rather that it can only connect to WEP protected networks. And I don't have a WEP protected network so I can't access the internets with the ds.
Also, speaking of Hydragon, Cynthia's Togekiss in platinum. It had every type covered as well.
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I don't have a WEP protected network so I can't access the internets with the ds.
This. Also, togekiss + air slash + serene heart = boss
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I got comboed by a Steelix. He used Stealth Rock and kept Dragon Tailing my team. I got so unlucky cuz 6 minimizes wasn't enough to avoid it I guess... I love it though the way I get countered!!