Sexism in Gaming

[Zerlina]

Hey wondering what all your thoughts are on this.

I came across this blog:
http://fatuglyorslutty.com/category/jealous/

Is it just a few sex-deprived 15 year olds who dish out homophobic and sexist language? Or is it something else?

I know a lot of people say to just laugh it off and not feed the trolls, but when so much online interaction is dominated by a sometimes violent and almost always offensive environment, is ignoring the problem just making it worse? A lot of my friends will not even go online to game because they know that they're going to be humiliated and harassed.

Sexism in the gaming community can be really subtle, but it seems like it's always there, even when it's not as obvious as the comments posted in that blog.  Some examples from real life- I work at a game store and every day guys come up and ask "So do you actually play games or are you just here to look pretty?" then they're confused when I and my other female employees aren't blushing from their supposedly obvious compliment. They wouldn't ask any of our male coworkers the same question. Sometimes they'll go straight to the male coworker even if I'm closer to them, and ask them for help. On another note, if they ask about a particular game that isn't one I've played (for example, Call of Duty) they'll make some comment like "Oh, well is there someone here who actually plays games and isn't just here to bring in lonely guys?" The other girls I work with get the same flack, meanwhile if one of the guys who works at the store doesn't know about a particular game, it's not a big deal.

Then there's this really weird double standard, where celebrities or politicians are torn apart for being homophobic or racist (as really they should be) but then it's somehow acceptable to say hateful, homophobic things online?


So I guess, yeah- apart from being partly a vent, I really do want to know what the thoughts are on this forum. I feel like all of this sexism and homophobia is both making gaming inhospitable to women (apparently 47% of gamers), and also giving us a bad reputation as a community.

[Meiscool]

lawl.

Ignore it. That stuff happens in games all the time. Sometimes people are pissed because they are losing, sometimes they are trying to troll, but it all rounds down to boredom.
I read a few of those blog posts on your link, and almost all of them have some almighty comment like "I guess they wuz just mad cuz I be killin' em all" or "they bez angry cuz they getz no kills".
The bloggers are just as guilty of slander through the internet as anyone else. Wording and directness are really the only differences. It is just how things happen. What better than a society populated by real people that you never have to interact with personally to lash out at? Can't tease people IRL, internet. Can't talk **** to people IRL, internet. Are you 32 but miss acting like a kid; internet. No one will listen to your silly problems, bored people will read them on the internet.

Leave it be, quit taking things personally, and if someone annoys you there are plenty of blocking options. If they say they are going to come to your house to kill you; just remember that you are more likely to get shot watching Dark Knight Rises than the persona actually putting the controller down and flying their *** somewhere.

Nothing offensive meant, but since this is in the internet someone will undoubtedly read more into it than necessary.

EDIT: As far as the sexism issue goes, whatever. Pout and moan all you want, but I believe the gender gap is accurate when it comes to video games. I know A LOT of girls that play games, but all of them are worse than I am, and barely any of them play FPS. I know a lot of guys that play games, and many are better than me and almost all of them play some type of FPS. I'm sure a lot of guys could quote those last two sentences with complete true.

My argument is that using COD is a bad example. Try Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Zelda, etc. Those series, and many others, seem to not be so 'male oriented'.

[Archem]

It's true that sexism is a huge problem in the gaming community. It has a lot to do with the anonymity thing, and the fact that it's been seen as a male hobby for decades. Women are really starting to get involved these days, and while some people are just dicks, others genuinely feel threatened by females. Emasculation or something. As for not taking women seriously in a video game-related environment, an attractive female seems more artificial than the fat, ugly male that exists in the same environment. That's a compare/contrast issue as well as a "male hobby" issue. That, and the gamers who consider themselves to be "hardcore" are bad with women, and feel uncomfortable with interacting with them.

It's a series of deep-rooted problems, and it's unlikely to improve for years to come. I don't think it should just be ignored, though. I can't stand prejudice of any sort in my community, and vocally express my anger with actions or words that are made to offend someone who isn't a single white male. It's disgusting, even if it is the status-quo. Taking a stand makes a difference. Still, it's hard to win in a stacked game, and as for right now, the assholes of the world have the advantage.

Here's what I suggest: In a non-hostile environment, flaunt the nerdiness and force interaction. With time, this becomes the new normal, and it no longer seems phony or awkward. I have no suggestions for a hostile situation, but I'm not a hostile person. Perhaps finding a group of people to roll with can even the odds if things turn ugly.

[Zerlina]

Archem, that's actually pretty articulate, and I'm really glad it's coming from you. I know here on the community we all like to push boundaries sometimes- you do it, I do it, a lot of us do. But here I feel like we rarely ever push too far- as a community we might haze each other a little but we never really cross the line into harassment. I think it's something that Archem (at least as far as I've seen) you've managed to do pretty well.

Lucas and Jesusisme, do you think maybe saying "It's not a big deal, calm down" is an inappropriate response to people who are experiencing repeated sexual harassment?

[greenraven]

It's not just sexism, but general raging bigotry and stupidity. Just yesterday I was playing CoD and I had some 12 year old call me a motherfucking **** faggot simply for ending his kill streak. It's the internet, people are generally prone to being assholes to one another simply because it's convenient.

But as long as we're on the subject of sex and video games... I am a male yet I have and very much so enjoy Cooking Mama.



People generally give me weird looks when I say I have and enjoy that game. And don't even get me started on Princess Maker.



Yes, I play and thoroughly enjoy Princess Maker and I am a proud owner of a penis.



As Sir Isaac Asimov said "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Quite simply ignore the bigots, their angry words are all they have left at their disposal.

Now then... tits or gtfo!

[Archem]

I don't like ignoring a problem and pretending it doesn't exist. It doesn't do anything to help make things better or actually put an end to the problem. If playing a game online as a female leads to repeated and aggressive sexual harassment, isn't that a problem to address? It's not as big a deal as other issues that deserve recognition, like the things Lucas referenced, but it's still a problem and deserves people's attention all the same. Lucas, you've claimed to be tired, so I can forgive your comment until tomorrow. Have something good written up by then. MIC, I'm slightly disappointed in your approach. You go straight for the tired "ignore it" option, leaving the problem there. Sweeping it under the rug works in the short term, but eventually there's going to be some massive lumps under that rug that are drawing some serious attention. I'm sure we all know that focusing on something is the best way to try and change it. I am completely fine with telling all of you (repeatedly if necessary) to change your game and be vocal about the issue. I hate it, I want you to hate it, and I want it to become a socially unacceptable stance, even in this culture.

Last-minute addition to address Greenraven's undercutting post: There's nothing wrong with liking something that isn't immediately masculine; I do so rather frequently. The end result is increased popularity by way of being different. Love something, don't hide that love, and make damn sure that the world knows it. Some people will poke fun at first, but then the world accepts it. Everyone loves me despite (or because of) my quirks, online and off, and that's because of confidence and never letting the worst of the world get to me. Haters will hate, but when public opinion inevitably swings in my favor, they either keep that hate private or change their views. Unpopular opinions don't stand for very long if you make sure to show that they have no reason to exist.

Zerl, you should be taking notes. I think I'm suddenly on a soap box or something.

[fruckert]

I thoroughly believe the "People are dicks, live with it" argument is complete and utter bull.
The fact that people are still such dicks about things, in this day and age, is exactly the reason why we should do something about it.
Make a scene, raise awareness, etc.

And regarding Greenraven: I direct you to my avatar.

[Meiscool]

Lucas and Jesusisme, do you think maybe saying "It's not a big deal, calm down" is an inappropriate response to people who are experiencing repeated sexual harassment?

Nah. I mean, if you wanna take things personally that a person who doesn't know you personally said to you, whatever; more power to you.
A long time ago, I remember posting on here looking for help with my erectile dysfuction issue. I got made fun of for it, but I didn't really give much of a **** because no one here actually knows me. Hell, short of a few people, no one even knows my name.
So yeah, "Its not a big deal" is pretty accurate, considering someone random sending you a PSN message saying "i'm gonna fuk ur **** bitch nigga" is lower than someone telling you that you are smelly in person.

[Archem]

It's more of a matter of dealing with it frequently, not of taking the comments to heart. No person should have to put up with the constant stream of harassment because of a single chromosome.

[Zerlina]

Yeah, seriously, Archem. I don't think I've ever seen you do this before XD.  It shall go down in charas history.

Fruck, I posted the same link on my facebook and one girl commented "Saying "it happens all the time" or that "boys will be boys" takes away all accountibility for thier actions. It vilifies the victims making them seem overly sensitive. " which I think plays into the argument that you're making

I feel like it's sometimes impossible for men to stand up for respect (as you and Archem have done) because it opens the defending men up to vilification. The old insult "White Knight" is often used, implying the guy just wants to get laid by the girl he's defending.

What I think is really important is reclaiming the term and turning it into something positive- a joint effort to say a "Fine, I'm a White Knight. No, that doesn't mean I'm out to cyber. It means I'm someone who believes in respect for those with whom we share a community." If the stigma from defending victims of sexual harassment can be removed, then more men will step up to the plate. If more men step up to the plate, then it becomes clear that not only women find it socially unacceptable but "the boys" do too.

[greenraven]

I can't speak for everyone else, but my reason for "just ignore it" is simply because it's just not worth the hassle. Rarely if ever anything fruitful gets accomplished. More often than not reporting offensive players will get them banned, only to create a new account.



Let's face it, most trolls/haters are attention whores, if you ignore them they go away.


@Zerlina, I've never heard "White Knight" used in a derogatory fashion before. O_O

[HackersTotalMassLaser]

Men stand for respect, their fellow men, think of them as weak. And many times their fellow females too.

Is easier to be a douche bag online, than being nice. This mentality not only can grow to be an instinct but it start to feels natural (which is about the same thing) as people or "friends" approve of it.

Social consensus.

It's the internet. It. Won't. Change.

[Meiscool]

I do have an issue with some peoples here throwing terms like bigot and such around, purely because it is hypocritical that people are tolerant of others are intolerant of those who express intolerance. The rally to generalize people is also sickening too, but yeah...  keep on lookin down on humanity. It isn't like the people ya'll be complaining about are doing that or anything.

[Zerlina]

Saying "it won't change so don't try" might seems true in an over-arching sense, but individuals can make changes in small ways. If a girl is being harassed by a bunch of guys calling her a dirty slut and telling her they're going to rape her with their rifle, and nobody steps in, the girl will think that everyone thinks this behaviour is okay. It means a lot to someone who is being harassed when someone else steps up to the plate and says what's happening is wrong. So even if in a broader sense there isn't widespread change, you can make a difference for one person at a time.

[Meiscool]

If a girl is being harassed by a bunch of guys calling her a dirty slut and telling her they're going to rape her with their rifle,

Now, is this a message being sent to you by a person on a mic 300 miles away, or in person to your face?

The later is a whole other deal, and I like to believe that anyone decent would stand up and help. The first... just tolerate it. You never know why a person is upset when you can't see them.