Holy CRAP

[Grandy]

Originally posted by I Have a Sandwich
Well, if you keep him alive, thats money that your GIVING to him for his food, water, etc. Are you telling me that you would want the people of Iraq/US to pay to keep Saddam alive? As for 'it's playing God, bible says blah, blah" just remember, the commandment "Do unto others".

 People from Iraq/US are paying to keep lot's of people alive, many of which deservd to be killed. Having one more wouldn't do any diference.

 Or, as a theory: Put Saddam in jail, but all the money used to keep him alive from now on will be HIS money, you know, the money he had before that? I'm pretty sure it must be enough to keep him alive to the rest of his days.

[Apex]

It's insanity.

[Glitch]

A little background info here


1. Saddam was visibly shaken :   I actually watched the video of him being told the news yesterday, when he first said it he looked taken aback, he probably thought he'd be set free considering the old judge was a blatant supporter of him, but that guy was replaced.  After a little while he started yelling and got all defiant again, shouting that the court was the enemy of the people, and that God was great.  

2.  Doesn't justify the death sentence : That is not for us in America to decide, that's up to the thousands of Iraqi citizens, and the judges, who have watched him murder their freinds and family for years. Regardless of if we think hanging isn't right or whatever, that's the way they want to do it. (I for one think he deserves worse).

3. Why spend money to kill him : Ok, it really doesn't take alot of money to buy a rope    

4. WWIII : Umm, I don't know if you realize this, but the whole
Middle East hates itself, Iran hates Iraq, Iraq hates Iran, Isreal hates Iran and Iraq and the Palestinians, the palestinians hate Isreal, like Iran, and hate some other country... You get the picture, I don't think that his death will cause WWIII, as they won't use him as their martyr. Oh, and WWI was started when Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated. Not quite the same situation.



My own two cents. I think he deserves it. A large part of Iraq wants him to die. My arabic friends (I go to school in Dearborn, largest Arab population outside of the middle east). My friend Malak told me about her cousin that managed to get out of Iraq and come to America after his whole family was murdered thanks to an order from Saddam. And the whole death penalty thing, It's not really playing God, if you read the old testament there were many incidents in which God ordered death to people who had done wrong. And the death penalty isn't murder, as murder is killing with malice. The executioner usually has nothing personal against the person to be killed.


ok, well I'm done.

[Cosmos]

No dude, it don't. But it takes a lot of money to keep his *** alive for the time he has left. Extra protection, suicide watch, his own cell, and all that other crap. Sadly I went to a law school for high school, one of our teachers but some guy who was a for the death penalty. He pretty much explained to us the differences between keeping them alive and killing them. I really hate when ppl go omg we're spending so much money to keep him alives, blah blah blah.

And I think the only real issue with jail is the fact that it's like a mini-city in there. Lack of room, and tempers going outta control. Constant fights, and deaths that noone really cares about.

The bible thing contradicts it's self.. thou shall not kill, but do stone a man if he lays with another. Blah blah blah. Even tho god is all forgiven, still kill this murderer's *** so god can send'em to hell.  

[Almeidaboo]

I know I scare y'all, but you gotta try to put yourself in my point of view.

Living in a poor country led me to the following conclusion: people do not care about the others. Here, politicians stuff $100s in their asses when millions starve. And they just pretend not to see it (or, in my opinion, have pleasure on making others suffer).

Same goes for Saddam, he just didn´t care. His bellybutton was the center of the world, and the rest could die that he wouldn´t care.

And Bush's not a inch far from Saddam, cause he claims to make justice, but he sponsors war crimes, and doens´t give a ****.

I do not see why people value human life so much, if it is, in fact, fagile and volatile.

Eye for and eye is perfect justice. Where is it unfair? In a balance, why would death be heavier than death?

[Cosmos]

An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. It seems that you do not value life either almei... The same way those politicans you preach against want death, you do. Whether you like it or not, you are human. Just like them. Not only that, but there are poorer places then were you live. Hell, you have the internet other places don't even have a candle to light.

[Moosetroop11]

Meh, why not. Some people act as though the death penalty is something unnatural and horribly wrong. But hey, he deserves it. They should kill more people ^.^

[Almeidaboo]

Originally posted by Midnight
An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. It seems that you do not value life either almei... The same way those politicans you preach against want death, you do. Whether you like it or not, you are human. Just like them. Not only that, but there are poorer places then were you live. Hell, you have the internet other places don't even have a candle to light.

Nonono, that´s COMPLETELY different. When I say death for death is justified I say it because it´ll free the world from one murderous bastard. Saddam dead, no more people dead. Bush dead, no more people dead.

What they do with people here is pure cruelty: they leave people to die of starvation while they drink and eat the best. The leave people ignorant, just so we do not question what they´re doing.

I sincerely do not value SOME lives. I do not value a murderer's life, like Saddam and Bush's. Those who´ve done wrong have got to be punished. And I´ll tell you: they do not change. They need to be eliminated, cause otherwise they´ll do it again.

I´m not complaining about my condition here, absolutely not. But God presented me with something many people do not have: conscience. Responsability. Critical sense. It is my responsability to speak for those people that cannot speak for themselves because murderers, rapists, and specially politicians took away they´re chance to play any kind of role in the world. They´ll live as ****, and die as ****, just to feed a minority's selfishness (made up word?).

Some people have only one remedy: elimination. And I speak cause I´ve just got out of 4 years of open corruption, and the poor and ignorant elected the same bastard for 4 more years of king's life. They do not change, and they do not care. Saddam will kill, Bush will kill, and Lula will steal. Unless they´re dead.

[Cosmos]

Almei, people are people.. everyone is capable of murder even a two year old.. Murder or killing (apparently there is a difference between the two o.o) is something some people can't help. It's an urge they have to resist, we all get it. "Oooooo I would kill this bitch if I could get away with it.." "I hope this bitch dies a horrible death.." Ya know? Cause if that's the case, we should all be put on death row.. even tho, if ya think about it we already are with our limited life span.. and constant running into sharp things, getting run over, falling down stairs, choking on food, ect...... <.<;;

I dunno, to me putting someone on deathrow is just stepping down to their level. Sometimes the person is innocent too...... NO I'M NOT SAYING SADDIE IS INNOCENT, <.<;;. You know people who actually defend the death penalty don't give a **** when they find out the person they wanted dead was innocent after all? They're like, oh well..? It ain't our problem anymore. FIND THE NEXT PERSON! Like come on, whose really heartless? People are.

[Razor]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo

quote:

Originally posted by Midnight An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. It seems that you do not value life either almei... The same way those politicans you preach against want death, you do. Whether you like it or not, you are human. Just like them. Not only that, but there are poorer places then were you live. Hell, you have the internet other places don't even have a candle to light.

Nonono, that´s COMPLETELY different. When I say death for death is justified I say it because it´ll free the world from one murderous bastard. Saddam dead, no more people dead. Bush dead, no more people dead.

What they do with people here is pure cruelty: they leave people to die of starvation while they drink and eat the best. The leave people ignorant, just so we do not question what they´re doing.

I sincerely do not value SOME lives. I do not value a murderer's life, like Saddam and Bush's. Those who´ve done wrong have got to be punished. And I´ll tell you: they do not change. They need to be eliminated, cause otherwise they´ll do it again.

I´m not complaining about my condition here, absolutely not. But God presented me with something many people do not have: conscience. Responsability. Critical sense. It is my responsability to speak for those people that cannot speak for themselves because murderers, rapists, and specially politicians took away they´re chance to play any kind of role in the world. They´ll live as ****, and die as ****, just to feed a minority's selfishness (made up word?).

Some people have only one remedy: elimination. And I speak cause I´ve just got out of 4 years of open corruption, and the poor and ignorant elected the same bastard for 4 more years of king's life. They do not change, and they do not care. Saddam will kill, Bush will kill, and Lula will steal. Unless they´re dead.

I'd like to take the time to mention that Bush is trying to help people but he's really bad at it.

[plightofthepureblood]

Originally posted by Glitch
A little background info here

 if you read the old testament there were many incidents in which God ordered death to people who had done wrong. And the death penalty isn't murder, as murder is killing with malice.


ok, well I'm done.

And this kind of crap is whats feuling the wars. (And oil too)

Gods that "Order death"

Gimme a break man.

Its not playing god. Its not doing the right thing. But honestly, at this point, I dont think there is a "Right" thing.

But I do know what the "Wrong thing" is.

Hanging somebody for 'crimes against Humanity', in public. Im not going to say that sadam was a good guy by anymeans. And Im not gonna shout "Kill bush while youre at it". Im speaking objectivly here.

Do it in private, if you have to. The only reason its being so publicly broadcast is for the intents of propaganda.

And I cant believe that YOUNG people especially, are buying it. The Students, throughout history, and Young adults, have typically been the ones to criticize this kind of thing. The ones to take an Objective look at a situation, and analyze it.

In doing this, it proves that the powers that be have no intrest in learning from the past.

Granted, I live in Canada. Its easy for me to rant about this.
And somebody who lives in say, Brazil, or Cuba, or Argentina, could easily want to jump on board the "Gung ho" band wagon.

But seriously, were moving toward an age of Global integration.
And I dont think repeating things, like killing figureheads for the sake of rallying public support is going to accomplish anything but stirring up the pot of global hostilities.

I agree with Mid. An eye for an Eye makes the whole world blind.

This isnt about god anymore than it is about Oil and economy.

This is about masking whats really going on.

What are they hiding from you, with such a fantastic display of Public condemnation of "evil saddam"?

America is guilty of its own mass murders, and injustices. But the thing is, the american machine, is so overbearing and loud that it drowns this **** out. "Were fightin' terroismists, lets git em!"

I have trouble even trying to relate objectivly to a government that puts secret concentration camps up in My own Country, and denys their existance. I have trouble with an government that imposes global order with its collection of "The biggest supply of NUkes at G.Dubyas Nulcear arms lot!". I have trouble with Governments that fund radical terrorist groups until the groups  dont agree with their policies any more.

I have trouble with this whole thing. And I think Apathy and misanthropy are about the least effective approaches to this global $hitheap.

But for some reason, two wrongs make a right these days.

[Glitch]

*Edit*  I wasn't using God to justify anything, I was saying if you want to bring the whole playing God thing into it, you gotta look at the facts. Don't try feeding me that crap that being young means I should want murderers to go free, that I should want a known committer of GENOCIDE to live. That I should want the man that killed my uncle go free. Yeah, that's right, My uncle is dead because of Saddam Hussein.

Almei, I realize that you are passionate about not liking Bush, but you don't live in America, you really haven't experienced him first hand.

I realize he isn't the best president ever, and he has made some huge mistakes. But calling him a murderer on Saddam's level is a bit uneducated.  Yes, Bush did push for the war. No, Bush is not responsible for the war by himself. Yes, some unethical treatment of prisoners has occured. No, Bush did not sit down and order those prisoners to be tortured, that was the order of the commanding officer in that area.

Bush put the idea of war up to congress, and in a bipartisan (meaning both republican and democratic senators/reps) movement they decided to pass the declaration of war. Thus sending america to war. Basically, by calling Bush a murderer because of the war, you are calling every senator that voted for the war, and every house rep that voted for it, a murderer. Which means you are calling every voter that voted for them murderers. Do you think all of America is on Saddam's level?

Saddam on the other hand, had a totalitarian rule on his country, he decided one day he was going to go murder a butt load of kuwait citizens.  He single handedly ordered a genocide. No senate, no house, no votes, his word only.  Get your facts straight before you rant.

And mid. I realize that it costs more money to kill someone (thanks to the appeals process) than it does to keep them alive. My problem isn't with how much money, it's what my money is being spent on. I don't like the thought that my tax payer money (and yes, I do pay taxes) is supporting the life of a murder. And that is really stupid saying that just because we support the death penalty means we don't care who dies. Things aren't perfect yet, we do still make mistakes, and yes, I feel bad every time someone unjustly dies. But you have to admit we make far less mistakes now than we did. At least now we actually have fair trials, dna evidence, appeals courts, etc...

You say eye for an eye and the world goes blind, but what happens when the whole world turns the other cheek?

And Plight, I don't know if you realize it or not, but that is the biggest load of uneducated crap I've ever seen towards the bottom there.  Do me a favor and leave canda, go to college in America, take political science classes, and research this on your own before you go off spouting what you've heard your parents say for years...

And to all the foreign people, please stop blindly assuming everything your government and media tells you is true, you all don't have the slightest idea how American government works, it's alot more simple than the President handing down an order.

[plightofthepureblood]

Nah....You arent calling Bush or senators a Murderer.

Because they sit at home, and send other people to "Hey, Kill those guys over there"

Call me an ***hole, but Im pretty sure sadam did something very similar. "Hey. Durka Durka. Go Kill those guys over there."

Im positive Sadam Phsically Murdered people. But he did, by no means, single handedly commit GENOCIDE.
And I am Positive that G Dubya, hasnt Pysically Murdered anyone.

But this is Global 'effin politics. There are subordinates that do the Killing and Raping for the figureheads.

American troops have been known to Kill and rape on occasion too.

By the way to talk, this is suddams morning:
"Weelllllll Ive got to get out of bed, and Singlehandedly kill thousands of people. This is gonna take forEVER, durka durka."

Seriously, sure Hang him then if you gatta. But using this logic, if youre gonna support hanging him, then Bush, Harper, And Blair should be hung too. And Bush Senior. And CLinton. And Regan.
And Every other global leader who has ever had any part in any War whatsoever.


Like I said....two wrongs make a Right, it seems.

And by "youre young dont be snowed" I dont mean, be a hippy and protest everything....I mean "Dont eat the crap they spoon feed you, just because they are convieniently feeding it to you, while you eat a big mac, and watch Lost." Were all victims of Media and Political, an corporate Propaganda. Its your job as a human being to make up your own mind, and relize the difference between fact and fiction.

Were living in the dawn of the information age, and the Blazing hot Afternoon, of the Disinformation age.....And people are pretty lazy these days when it comes to seeding out the DISinformation.

Just because somebody tells you the "Moon is made of Cheese, its official" does not make it true.

[Grandy]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
What they do with people here is pure cruelty: they leave people to die of starvation while they drink and eat the best. The leave people ignorant, just so we do not question what they´re doing.

I sincerely do not value SOME lives. I do not value a murderer's life, like Saddam and Bush's. Those who´ve done wrong have got to be punished. And I´ll tell you: they do not change. They need to be eliminated, cause otherwise they´ll do it again.

 Heh, you talk as if we're any diferent. When was the last time you decided not to eat that steak or BBQ and give it to the poorer guy that's watching it from the street? I never. And, though it pains me to say so, I'll most likely never do that.

 I agree with you at punishing, but let's be frank, even if your logic is correct, killing them won't be half the things they've done to others, thus it won't be as much of a punishment, will it? Keep 'em alive, let they live without having contact with the world, that's a far worse punishment than death, I can surely tell you so.

 What it seems is that people aways need to find a easy way out. It's aways easier to kill someone, even someone evil, and claim that's how it's supposed to be. I believe people like Saddam and Bush will aways be there, and trying to kill all them would be impossible, especially because, who defines what's wrong and whats not? You? Me? That bunch of people who goes to a law court and classifies other bunch of people as culprit or innocent?

 Many times, people find themselves in a situation where they must kill to survive, and I'm not talking about self-defense, either. Think about it: You've lived on the streets, people walk past you, and ignore you, you even try and ask for money, but "You'd probally spend it with booze, anyway.". Very well, one day, you just notice that you are alone in this, you can't expect those people to help you, those very same people who turn their faces away when you go ask for money, then you do what's left for you to do: You steal.
 in your first attempt, you panic, bang, one murder.
 Exactly who's the culprit in this? That could, if you think a little, be classified as Self-Defense, if anyone cared to look at your past, they could see that no, you had no other option. Still, no one cares, you're a murderer, and you'll pay for it. You'll pay for having a rough life, with no help whatsoever, with your life.

 Did you know that a man who was 20-or so year waiting to be executed, was sorry for what he did, and even wrote a book about how what he did was wrong? That man got nominated to the Nobel of Peace, even. Sadly, he was killed.

 Many people change, you just have to actually pay attention to they, instead of the numbers that are shown to you.

[Cosmos]

You didn't understand what I was sayin.. Before in topics like this, people complained that we were wasting money on keeping them alive. Money that could be spent on something useful.. Honestly, we're wasting money on killing them.. Like gawd.... Also, I wasn't trying to imply that every pro-death penalty person didn't care about an innocent person being killed, but do they do anything about it? Course not. Also, if we turn the other cheek least we can still see  :p .

I think, honestly united we fail..(not for every case tho) When we're together it's hard to think, people become a sort of mob.. Every single sensible thought is consumed by the one thought of blood. Public hanging? Like com'on, how does that sound? It's ok to hang someone in the public eye? Doesn't that make you just as bad as the person whose about to be hung? Oh wait, this is justified.. Who are we to say that killin another person is justified? It's in the bible.. it's in the law.. man, whatever. That's all bullshit that's been fed to us by society.  To hide what's really going on right before our very eyes.

There are people straving, and uncurable cures.. and yet everyone is havin an orgasim over someone's hanging. lawl.