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Author Topic: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.  (Read 20473 times)

Offline Razor

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2008, 09:39:53 PM »
Quote from: Drace on November 18, 2008, 10:05:39 AM
Now I know, downloading is illegal. But asking 15 to 25 euros for a cd, that's a lot in my opinion. I make 5.50 euro an hour, I like over 200 bands. I need to work two till five hours for something I can listen 30 to 50 minutes to. Worth it? Not really.
I'm far too lazy to read the rest of this topic but: FLAWED LOGIC
What you're saying here is wrong. It is implying that you'll listen to a song ONCE and only ONCE.
Music is not candy. You listen to it a LOT. You can get hours and hours and hours and hours and hours out of one album alone.


Quote from: Dragonium on November 18, 2008, 09:36:46 PM
They kind of do, though.

Imagine you're a baker. You are tasked to make a new cake - in fact, the best cake in the world. So, you slave away, night and day, for many months, perfecting your cake recipe. You go through a lot of ingredients getting it right, and since they're only the best, this costs you a lot o money, not to mention the cost of those long hours working hard. Finally, you get it right. It's fantastic. It's the most fabulous cake in the world. You begin baking cakes following the recipe. Finally, your cakes are ready to be put in cake shops.

At this point, someone (who in my imagination looks like a Spy from Team Fortress 2) comes into your bakery, buys a cake, then steals your recipe, and begins producing his own copies of the cake and handing them out to everyone*. Suddenly everyone has your cakes, and you have made virtually no money for all that hard work. A little tear runs down your cheek.

*Assume that in this analogy the Spy has some way of mass-producing cakes for zero cost to himself. It could happen.

Depending on the size of the band, the amount of money they stand to lose varies, but there is always some impact.

It's like littering. There is the mentality of "ehh, if I drop this sweet wrapper on the floor, it's not going to hurt the environment too much". And that's true. The problem is that everyone has that same mentality, and the problem stacks up until it's a real issue.

Ehh. I can't decide which viewpoint I'm coming from.

Oooh I like this analogy too
« Last Edit: November 18, 2008, 09:44:51 PM by Razor »
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Offline Dragonium

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2008, 10:05:34 PM »
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Offline Drace

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2008, 10:06:09 PM »
Quote
And Roland.
Your friend shared his music with you so you could get your own. That's the same thing as piracy.
Someone upload the music. You put it on your computer(download it). But you don't sell it. You just use it for yourself.

Exactly what I meant with that.

Also, Razor, I get your point. But I still find the prices too expensive.
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Offline Razor

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2008, 10:09:01 PM »
Well how much do you pay for games, in comparison to the amount of hours you get out of them?

In before piracy of games



Not that I think any album can match up to Team Fortress 2. That's just one big time-sinkhole...
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Offline Roland_Deschain

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2008, 10:17:25 PM »
Quote from: Dragonium on November 18, 2008, 09:36:46 PM
They kind of do, though.

Imagine you're a baker. You are tasked to make a new cake - in fact, the best cake in the world. So, you slave away, night and day, for many months, perfecting your cake recipe. You go through a lot of ingredients getting it right, and since they're only the best, this costs you a lot of money, not to mention the cost of those long hours working hard. Finally, you get it right. It's fantastic. It's the most fabulous cake in the world. You begin baking cakes following the recipe. Finally, your cakes are ready to be put in cake shops.

At this point, someone (who in my imagination looks like a Spy from Team Fortress 2) comes into your bakery, buys a cake, then steals your recipe, and begins producing his own copies of the cake and handing them out to everyone*. Suddenly everyone has your cakes, and you have made virtually no money for all that hard work. A little tear runs down your cheek.

*Assume that in this analogy the Spy has some way of mass-producing cakes for zero cost to himself. It could happen.

Depending on the size of the band, the amount of money they stand to lose varies, but there is always some impact.

It's like littering. There is the mentality of "ehh, if I drop this sweet wrapper on the floor, it's not going to hurt the environment too much". And that's true. The problem is that everyone has that same mentality, and the problem stacks up until it's a real issue.

Ehh. I can't decide which viewpoint I'm coming from.

If it really WERE like this, that'd basically mean the artists would have to perform the song each time they made a CD. Which they don't. As Grandy said.

Though I admit the rest of your argument is true, I'm for making LEGAL free downloading. As in run by the music industry. As long as they got enough sponsors into it, which they would, it'd work out well and they'd still make money out of the deal, and everyone would be happy.

As far as games go, my stance is the same. LEGAL EMULATORS. I have a whole folder dedicated to illegally downloaded NES games because I can't find them ANYWHERE.
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Offline Desimodontidae

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2008, 10:22:29 PM »
But what about artists who are ridiculously rich already. Kinda like Lars Ulrich, he wanted a gold-plated shark tank bar installed next to his pool, but because of people downloading his music for free, he had to wait a few months. I mean, why do they really care, they are already set for life.

Then there are those who just want to get their music out, and encourage downloading (I mean hell, I'd be fuckin thrilled if you did a search on Frostwire for some of the songs my band did and got results). But you'd think the really famous people wouldn't care.
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Offline Grandy

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2008, 10:29:05 PM »
Quote from: Dragonium on November 18, 2008, 09:36:46 PM
They kind of do, though.

Imagine you're a baker. You are tasked to make a new cake - in fact, the best cake in the world. So, you slave away, night and day, for many months, perfecting your cake recipe. You go through a lot of ingredients getting it right, and since they're only the best, this costs you a lot of money, not to mention the cost of those long hours working hard. Finally, you get it right. It's fantastic. It's the most fabulous cake in the world. You begin baking cakes following the recipe. Finally, your cakes are ready to be put in cake shops.

At this point, someone (who in my imagination looks like a Spy from Team Fortress 2) comes into your bakery, buys a cake, then steals your recipe, and begins producing his own copies of the cake and handing them out to everyone*. Suddenly everyone has your cakes, and you have made virtually no money for all that hard work. A little tear runs down your cheek.

*Assume that in this analogy the Spy has some way of mass-producing cakes for zero cost to himself. It could happen.

Depending on the size of the band, the amount of money they stand to lose varies, but there is always some impact.

It's like littering. There is the mentality of "ehh, if I drop this sweet wrapper on the floor, it's not going to hurt the environment too much". And that's true. The problem is that everyone has that same mentality, and the problem stacks up until it's a real issue.

Ehh. I can't decide which viewpoint I'm coming from.

 Poor slave rockstars who have nothing to eat.
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Quote from: Alex
I general I'd say I agree 98% with Grandy's post above.

Offline DragonBlaze

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2008, 10:30:14 PM »
Quote
If it really WERE like this, that'd basically mean the artists would have to perform the song each time they made a CD. Which they don't. As Grandy said.

The only way THAT would be true is if no one who downloaded music illegally would have bought it legally if they could not have obtained it illegally. And this simply is not the case. There are a lot of people out there who simply download music illegally simply because they can for free.

And seriously, who are we to determin how much these artists make?
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Offline Roland_Deschain

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2008, 10:33:09 PM »
Uh, no I'm pretty sure the artists don't have to perform each song from a CD again for every CD they intend to make, they just copy it to a different disc and sell those.
I'm not saying I support illegal downloading, I'm just pointing out a flawed analogy.
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Offline Ben

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2008, 11:04:50 PM »
Bands like metallica got their Start and rise to fame from Bootleg music. Bootleg music is nothing new.

And lets not kid ourselves DB, the companies are still drawing in HUGE amounts of money.

By doing things like releasing more limited edition album releases, DVD album packages, more intricate and interactive Album Art, And touring longer and harder to promote album releases they are encouraging the sales.

The average downloader isnt selling copies of the music to his friends. Back in the day, we made mix tapes after borrowing our friends tapes.

Im not "Stealing" ****. Im sampling it. And if i like the taste, I am always sure to buy it.


However, Im not going to pay 25 bucks to hear one song on an album I like and risk the rest of it being crap. Because lets face it, Making music is not hard work (in the traditional sense). Very few musicians face the workplace dangers and hazzards that say, a construction worker or Oilfield worker does. They are never going to have a malpractice suit for a surgery mistake on their hands. So forgive me for thinking that they dont seserve 6,7 or 8 figure a year.

And as I said before, most bands get their start from bootlegging music. So really dude, a great deal of the record companies revenue is coming in because of the stolen music.

I should also Add that the companies are the one who choose the production value, and coose to spen the stupi amounts of money, when cheap recording software exists, that in many cases sounds just as good as any big money release (given that the sound man had a good ear)

I gots buddies in the industry. And they all download the music too man. Its the high ups that are filing suit. Because 3 million copies isnt enough to sell. they want 4 mill. **** that. Im gonna go download some Immortal technique
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Offline X_marks_the_ed

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2008, 11:11:11 PM »
Quote
However, Im not going to pay 25 bucks to hear one song on an album I like and risk the rest of it being crap. Because lets face it, Making music is not hard work (in the traditional sense). Very few musicians face the workplace dangers and hazzards that say, a construction worker or Oilfield worker does. They are never going to have a malpractice suit for a surgery mistake on their hands. So forgive me for thinking that they dont seserve 6,7 or 8 figure a year.

Holy crap, I'm starting to go gai for u.
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Offline Roland_Deschain

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2008, 11:22:44 PM »
I agree with Gem 1000.9828%. Seriously, how is illegal downloading different from listening to OpenPandora? Sure, it won't save music, but srsly.
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Offline Ben

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2008, 01:05:42 AM »
and really, whats the difference between downloading it, and listening to it on lastfm or some such? I dont distribute the music. Most of what I have on my machine is something Ive either Bought, or Paid to see live.

Actually, Everything on my computer Ive  Bought or Paid to see live. i HAVE NO REMORSE
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Offline ZeroKirbyX

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2008, 02:29:27 AM »
Here's how I see it. I could jump in the car, drive 15-20 miles to a decent record store, buy a shrink wrapped CD, drive back home, use tire rubber, buy gas, encourage the drilling and manufacturing of plastics and gas, pollute the roads, force the companies to produce another CD for the one I bought, and require the production of more materials to make it, or use the bare minimum amount of electricity.

By downloading music, I save the environment.
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Offline Roland_Deschain

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Re: The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2008, 02:36:30 AM »
Quote from: ZeroKirbyX on November 19, 2008, 02:29:27 AM
Here's how I see it. I could jump in the car, drive 15-20 miles to a decent record store, buy a shrink wrapped CD, drive back home, use tire rubber, buy gas, encourage the drilling and manufacturing of plastics and gas, pollute the roads, force the companies to produce another CD for the one I bought, and require the production of more materials to make it, or use the bare minimum amount of electricity.

By downloading music, I save the environment.

Zeek is truly an inspiration to us all. I am humbled by his environment-saving techniques. (Only minor sarcasm there, I seriously never thought of it like that.)


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