Hollywood Sucks

[Grandy]

"Oh, sorry, Mr. Bob, but Brazil has very very very worse criminals than yours, yeah, I do mean Columbine, so I guess I must kill every single one in a great and overexagerated generalization as the vigilante I am. After all, they know where I live and will  rape my entire family tree up to my grand grand childrem because that's why God put them in the world. I'm a lawyer, I know how things work, sitting in my office reading my pretty books. Remember kids: I'm judge, jury AND executiuoner."
 I wish it was that simple, really I do.

 ...

 No, I don't, it would take away all the greatness of it

 EDIT: Who knows more of a prision? You, who READ about it, or my cousin, who happens to be a prision guard?

[Almeidaboo]

Pavillion 9 had only highly dangerous criminals. I went to Carandiru days before it was demolished and got everything about it. The other pavilions (the religious guys, the I donīt know what guys) didnīt suffer the attack.

There ya go.


EDIT: The word is not "worse" criminals, but "different".

EDIT2: And dude, for real, if you donīt know what it is like, donīt speak about it. You may be really mistaken and even be unfair to yourself. If, god forbid, anything happens to anyone close to you, hating wonīt be the answer. I study what Iīm talking about, and the best answer till now is death penalty.

[charaman]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo

quote:

Originally posted by charaman quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell. I can't believe someone would say that. **** it. I'm done trying to comprehend any of this. Let me just say that the fact that you hold yourself in such a regard as to judge such a situation is really unnerving to me. I'm seeing a lot of insensitive comments in this thread about events, and theories (and opinions being presented as fact) that are making me ashamed to be a part of this discussion. You say you want to honor the dead but "oh only on my terms" or when it's convienient. Does any one here really believe the 9/11 conspiracies beng presented are at all sincerely representing the wishes of the dead? Please, people. reevaluate what you are saying before you try to critisize another person's insensitivity. People are people, whether they are ****** up or whatever, and it is not your job to pass judgement on the value of their lives, dead or alive.

Iīll tell you something, and you keep it for life, even though you donīt agree. If you want to understand my comment:

1) Step out, for one day, of Wonder Land. Step out of it and join the pain of opressing governments and insecurity.

2) Be opressed by someone. And not your parents, that take your videogame away. Be scared, feel fear from someone that has actually nothing to lose, that will kill you if you donīt give them your shoes.

3) Live somewhere, a 3rd world country, where the criminals have THE SAME FREAKING WEAPONS AS THE USA ARMY AND TAKE ON THE POLICE AND MANY TIMES WIN.

4) Step out of Wonder Land.

In Brazil, many of the criminals have no hope. Either they die, either you parents may get killed. Streets can be safe. Or not.
The diff between USA criminals and Brazilīs criminals is that in the USA the perfectness of everything, the routine and the steady life, the suburbs drive people crazy. The get f/cked up of the head and enter school with guns to kill their school mates (instead of trying to find new friends WTF!).

In Brazil they come to you and rob you. They are the law in many places, and most of the time theyīve got no mental problems. They were born in the horror of poverty, and persue the life they couldnīt have in the scared eyes of honest people.

They rob, they kill, they rape, they kidnap. And then walk away with your life.

Most of them HAVE to die (not to mention we waste more money with the penitentiary system than with education WTF v.2.2)

I don't disagree with you. **** life. **** government, **** everything. But please, please don't think that tyranny and violence and corruption and murder are defined by political borders: they happen everywhere and are a cruel reality of the fucked up systems that govern the planet. Sure, this can be more concentrated and prevalent in some places than others, but not everyone is my ****ing country is blind to the truth.

Government's supposed to be above that **** though. That's why many people (not me) place their trust in it. To have a country and penal system run by the same kind of tyrants that it is set up to punish is backwards, can't you see that? It's a system set up for failure.

In my OPINION, what the prisons should do is weed out the worst of the worst, force them to live in the worst, most cramped smallest solitary cells that can be found, and given only the bread an water necesary to sustain some sort of life.



The point here that I am making is not that bad men deserve to be pampered and rehabilitated, because most logical poeple know that won't work for many prisoners. They should not be butchered and killed according to the whims of the prison heirarchy.

[Grandy]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
Pavillion 9 had only highly dangerous criminals. I went to Carandiru days before it was demolished and got everything about it. The other pavilions (the religious guys, the I donīt know what guys) didnīt suffer the attack.

There ya go.


EDIT: The word is not "worse" criminals, but "different".

EDIT2: And dude, for real, if you donīt know what it is like, donīt speak about it. You may be really mistaken and even be unfair to yourself. If, god forbid, anything happens to anyone close to you, hating wonīt be the answer. I study what Iīm talking about, and the best answer till now is death penalty.

 Do you really believe in everything you read? You was saying the justice doesn't works, I say that's mostly because of the news, sensor and turistic guides.

 

and the best answer till now is death penalty.

 And that's the answer I liked to hear, simple, easy to understand, and absurdaly against any morals whatsoever.
 I'll go with an easy sentence as well:
 "You're as good as they are."

[Kijuki_Magazaki]

Originally posted by charaman

quote:

Originally posted by Almeidaboo quote: Originally posted by charaman quote: Originally posted by Almeidaboo About first of: the massacre Grandy is talking about took place in Brazilīs hugest high-security prision, and was ordered by a general (or capitain) because the prisioners were making a big fat mess, destroying everything and killing each other. 111 prisioners were dead. I myself belive that pavilion 9 had no chance to be fixed. The people that were locked up there had no way back to society: they were the most dangerous people in the State, and were unhumanly cruel. Good thing they were all killed. A nice pack of **** to hell. I can't believe someone would say that. **** it. I'm done trying to comprehend any of this. Let me just say that the fact that you hold yourself in such a regard as to judge such a situation is really unnerving to me. I'm seeing a lot of insensitive comments in this thread about events, and theories (and opinions being presented as fact) that are making me ashamed to be a part of this discussion. You say you want to honor the dead but "oh only on my terms" or when it's convienient. Does any one here really believe the 9/11 conspiracies beng presented are at all sincerely representing the wishes of the dead? Please, people. reevaluate what you are saying before you try to critisize another person's insensitivity. People are people, whether they are ****** up or whatever, and it is not your job to pass judgement on the value of their lives, dead or alive. Iīll tell you something, and you keep it for life, even though you donīt agree. If you want to understand my comment: 1) Step out, for one day, of Wonder Land. Step out of it and join the pain of opressing governments and insecurity. 2) Be opressed by someone. And not your parents, that take your videogame away. Be scared, feel fear from someone that has actually nothing to lose, that will kill you if you donīt give them your shoes. 3) Live somewhere, a 3rd world country, where the criminals have THE SAME FREAKING WEAPONS AS THE USA ARMY AND TAKE ON THE POLICE AND MANY TIMES WIN. 4) Step out of Wonder Land. In Brazil, many of the criminals have no hope. Either they die, either you parents may get killed. Streets can be safe. Or not. The diff between USA criminals and Brazilīs criminals is that in the USA the perfectness of everything, the routine and the steady life, the suburbs drive people crazy. The get f/cked up of the head and enter school with guns to kill their school mates (instead of trying to find new friends WTF!). In Brazil they come to you and rob you. They are the law in many places, and most of the time theyīve got no mental problems. They were born in the horror of poverty, and persue the life they couldnīt have in the scared eyes of honest people. They rob, they kill, they rape, they kidnap. And then walk away with your life. Most of them HAVE to die (not to mention we waste more money with the penitentiary system than with education WTF v.2.2)

I don't disagree with you. **** life. **** government, **** everything. But please, please don't think that tyranny and violence and corruption and murder are defined by political borders: they happen everywhere and are a cruel reality of the ****** up systems that govern the planet. Sure, this can be more concentrated and prevalent in some places than others, but not everyone is my ******* country is blind to the truth.

Government's supposed to be above that **** though. That's why many people (not me) place their trust in it. To have a country and penal system run by the same kind of tyrants that it is set up to punish is backwards, can't you see that? It's a system set up for failure.

In my OPINION, what the prisons should do is weed out the worst of the worst, force them to live in the worst, most cramped smallest solitary cells that can be found, and given only the bread an water necesary to sustain some sort of life.



The point here that I am making is not that bad men deserve to be pampered and rehabilitated, because most logical poeple know that won't work for many prisoners. They should not be butchered and killed according to the whims of the prison heirarchy.

i agree with him that i do. i don't think people deserve death at all; there's no happiness to it; there's no productiveness to it. There's no life out of it. I for one understand what charaman say, but understand in a logical and believing manner.


anywho, i advice to derive from this tipoc before the thread turns into death b;ah blah. try to resume your POVs in the next set of posts. we are after all talking about a movie and how it may suck bcause it is too soon.

[Almeidaboo]

I didnīt read it Grandy. I saw it. I belive things I see and things I canīt see.

I get what you say Charaman and youīre right about corruption and violence everywhere. Dude, my country has all that 5 stars!

When I said what I said about 9/11 I meant to say that everything in this world operated in a action-reaction system. You know what caused those events! But the media treats the whole thing and a blind, meaningless and reasonless act, when itīs actually not. The attack was sad, painful, ugly and cowardice. It WAS wrong because any kind of violence if wrong! But it began with a big load of wrong *********! Action and reaction.

A movie about those events could be a really good movie if it showed what makes a bunch of ***********-ups throw planes in big buildings, AND what man is capable of just to make a whole country suffer. As you said, the violence exist everywhere: in the US and in the Al Qaeda.

But what happened is Carandiru is a completely different case. The prisioners hurt someone for no reason and got locked up. Then again, they start hurting others! No one ever hurt them!

I belive in this: whenever you donīt adhere to something, like a strike or a gang, or a government (for example), it shows that you donīt agree with that in some level, and you "declare" not needy of those things.

Same works with human rights. I have the human right of LIFE. As soon as a person offends that right of mine, taking it away, he "declares" that he doesnīt agree with that, and loses the right to have his "human right" preserved! What punishment you be the most fair:

1) Living at the cost of my fatherīs work?

2) Dying, for what HE belived?

I don't belive that any kind of indenization, or he being locked up, will ever erase my mother's sadness.

EDIT: SOrry KM, I didnīt see your post...I was writing mine when you posted...

Keep up the censor work-arounds, Almeidaboo, and I won't edit your post next time, I have to delete it.

[Grandy]

Resume of my opinions:
 Death sentence is murder, only a legal murder, which doesn't change the fact it IS murder.

 

I saw it.

 Of course, you're older than you look and was arrested some days before it, either that or you didn't saw it.

[charaman]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
I belive in this: whenever you donīt adhere to something, like a strike or a gang, or a government (for example), it shows that you donīt agree with that in some level, and you "declare" not needy of those things.

The Social Contract. I agree wholly. But blanket punishment sort of crosses the line, in my opinion. A thief is different than a murderer, but has the potential to cross the line. I dont think he should be treated as a murderer until he becomes one. Am I saying that any one of the 111 killed wasn't a muderer? I really do not have the background to make such a statement, but no one who wasn't there (at the time of the incident) does, either, I don't think.



Ok, I'm done. Sorry KM/mods/admins.

[Almeidaboo]

Originally posted by Grandy
Resume of my opinions:
 Death sentence is murder, only a legal murder, which doesn't change the fact it IS murder.

 

quote:

I saw it.

 Of course, you're older than you look and was arrested some days before it, either that or you didn't saw it.

OK! NOW YOU CROSSED THE LINE!!

I DO NOT LOOK OLDER THAN I AM OK??? THOSE WHITE HAIRS ARE RESULTANT OF TOO MUCH WORK!!!

LOL, sorry, it sounded funny in my head. Anyway, I didn' t mean I saw the massacre, sorry for the weird writing. I mean I saw the  prision system from the inside, the creepy stuff and all.

Charaman: Oh no, Iīm against non proportional punishment too. Thereīs simply no logic in killing a thief, Iīm totally with you in that one.

But as said before, the pavillion 9 was reserved to killers and highly-offensive criminals. (the massacre was a crime and it was cowardice of the policeman, but if we had a fair system, that would have been done anyway. Eye for an eye.)

[charaman]

Originally posted by Almeidaboo
(the massacre was a crime and it was cowardice of the policeman, but if we had a fair system, that would have been done anyway. Eye for an eye.)

Ok. Thats all I was trying to get at.

[Almeidaboo]

Originally posted by charaman

quote:

Originally posted by Almeidaboo (the massacre was a crime and it was cowardice of the policeman, but if we had a fair system, that would have been done anyway. Eye for an eye.)

Ok. Thats all I was trying to get at.

Yay! Iīm glad we could come to good terms. This was a great discussion, no flames and all. Weīre an example, you, me and Grandy!

[Grandy]

An example of not listening to orange names, maybe. *points to Kijuky's post*

[Almeidaboo]

 

Keep up the censor work-arounds, Almeidaboo, and I won't edit your post next time, I have to delete it.

Took me a while to get it, LOL...I was like, I didn't write in bold!

I thought some stuff were censored automatically...but then again I think I had put a ! so that it didnīt get censored...

Anyway, sorry!

*head bobs in Grandy's direction*

[Revolution911]

....Wow. The first time I actually read one of these long *** debates.

Well HERES REV'S SUPER SHORT OPINION:

1) Criminals are bad everywhere. EVERYWHERE. Anyone who says that where they live is a hell hole and criminals are 10x worse needs to get over themselves.

2)Death penalty...meh. I find people are way too optimistic. Well er...good intentions dont always lead to good results. Take that as you wish.

[Kijuki_Magazaki]

Originally posted by Grandy
An example of not listening to orange names, maybe. *points to Kijuky's post*

Subconciously they did, for i said to finish in the next set of posts and so they did.

oh well.