NDS emulation.

[Archem]

I could, but I'm too cool for that.

[Apex]

Originally posted by Smokey_locs2006

Originally posted by Apex
The best emulation for DS is the DS itself,

Do I need to tell you what's wrong with this statement?[/B]

Not a thing is wrong with it. Using a flashcart on a DS insures 100% compatibility, 100% of the features and 100% of the speed. Not to mention you are playing the game you would have been if you had bought the game itself. Can you play online with the computer emulators? I doubt it.

[Smokey_locs2006]

Speaking of Pokemon

(you guys will hate me for this...most of you)

[Ben]

Honestly, I love you for it.

[SaiKar]

Smokey, you're a freaking legend.

[j_master]

its kinda wrong but so cool!

[Osmose]

Originally posted by Apex

Originally posted by Smokey_locs2006

Originally posted by Apex
The best emulation for DS is the DS itself,

Do I need to tell you what's wrong with this statement?[/B]

Not a thing is wrong with it. Using a flashcart on a DS insures 100% compatibility, 100% of the features and 100% of the speed. Not to mention you are playing the game you would have been if you had bought the game itself. Can you play online with the computer emulators? I doubt it.[/B]

The part that's wrong with the statement is that playing on the DS itself is not emulation because it *is* the DS, not another medium trying to emulate the DS.

[Smokey_locs2006]

Originally posted by Osmose

Originally posted by Apex

Originally posted by Smokey_locs2006

Originally posted by Apex
The best emulation for DS is the DS itself,

Do I need to tell you what's wrong with this statement?[/B]

Not a thing is wrong with it. Using a flashcart on a DS insures 100% compatibility, 100% of the features and 100% of the speed. Not to mention you are playing the game you would have been if you had bought the game itself. Can you play online with the computer emulators? I doubt it.[/B]

The part that's wrong with the statement is that playing on the DS itself is not emulation because it *is* the DS, not another medium trying to emulate the DS.[/B]

Word

[Razor]

And let us not forget the ethical part of stealing the many weeks and months of hard work from the game developers themselves.

[Archem]

Razor +1



+100

[Apex]

Originally posted by Razor
Last night I downloaded Pearl and Diamond but they run really bad.

And it doesn't help me decide if I want to buy them or not.

Originally posted by Razor
And let us not forget the ethical part of stealing the many weeks and months of hard work from the game developers themselves.

First off, that's a major contradiction, second off, I will guarantee I have bought at least twice as many DS games you have.

Emulation is simulating hardware and firmware of something, to have access to a specific file format, correct? A flash carts reads roms, which are dumped code from games, decrypted. It uses a separate read method that simulates the that of the DS's normal read method, taking patches and file versions into place. If it were direct usage of the DS's hardware and software, there would be no incompatibility issues, that you sometimes see (Which are always corrected in later patches.)

A somewhat good example of this, is virtual PC, an application that for Mac OS X, that emulates a windows XP computer. Windows XP can already be installed on most Mac compatible PCs, so potentially they ARE Windows computers. Although it IS the DS, it's just simply using the provided hardware (Which happens to be the perfect kind, which makes Flashcarts so effective.) with custom software. The DS's do not play games Flashcarts, the DS's hardware is just used, as a computers hardware would be used if the emulation were on a computer.


Archem -100, suck up.

[Razor]

The real thing is much better than the emulation. 33% running time is a drag. It only leaves me with the option to buy it, rather to say "WELL I DON'T REALLY LIKE IT BUT I'LL PLAY IT WHENEVER I WANT, BUT AS LONG AS I DON'T LIKE IT IT'S OKAY TO STEAL IT".  

I don't go around completely promoting the benefits of piracy, playing everything and only buying the games "I feel are worthy" of being bought, while I play and enjoy the games "that aren't worthy" with absolutely no intentions of buying them at all.

Originally posted by Apex
second off, I will guarantee I have pirated at least twice as many games in general you own.

Fixed.

[Apex]

I'm sorry Razor, but when people show general interest in it (And at one point you did, and right now you ARE.) I can't help but make a friendly suggestion that can save you money. Am I a bad person for making a simple suggestion? No, I am a bad person for cheating companies like Wal-Mart and Gamestop. What I said about owning at least double the amount of DS games is true, but your little smart-*** "Fixed" statement is true as well. You get upset with me for pirating on a DS, yet some of you people ignore buying one all together, and emulate on your PC! I have payed a ton of money to Nintendo in the past, and present, so to be preached to by the guy who just downloaded Pokemon to play on his computer and owns a grand total of three DS games (I could be wrong on that, sorry if I am.) is ludicrous!

Ask FFL, if he doesn't want to hear me preach about Flashcarts, then I don't preach about them. He's mature enough to tell me it offends him, and to not block me over a personal belief, which you just totally contradicted.

[Osmose]

Pardon the large post size.

Emulation is simulating hardware and firmware of something, to have access to a specific file format, correct?

You're right up until that last part. It's not about having access to a specific file format, it's about the emulating of the processor and associated hardware.

A flash carts reads roms, which are dumped code from games, decrypted.

I'm not so sure about that decrypted part. As far as I've ever seen, the most that goes on is copy protection that usually involves something physical, like validation that needs to be burned directly into a CD or included on a cartridge. And no, they don't read ROMs, they contain them.

It uses a separate read method that simulates the that of the DS's normal read method, taking patches and file versions into place. If it were direct usage of the DS's hardware and software, there would be no incompatibility issues, that you sometimes see (Which are always corrected in later patches.)

It *is* direct usage of the DS's hardware and software. It may bypass the initial screen with it's own booting and software, but the flash cart does no emulation - the processor in the DS handles the game code, as does the rest of the hardware. At most a flash cart validates itself, runs some software to let you choose what game it loads up (And possibly apply some patches), then takes that game and throws it at the DS processing unit, which takes over from there. It is not emulation.

And no, the existence of patches doesn't prove this. When you dump a ROM, a whole load of incompatibilities can arise. The game is not meant to be put on a card that holds multiple games and loads them up separately via software. Sometimes the game is a different region and does not work properly with your region - patches can fix this too. But all of those changes to the ROM still do not affect the final product - a game running on DS hardware using DS processing.

A somewhat good example of this, is virtual PC, an application that for Mac OS X, that emulates a windows XP computer. Windows XP can already be installed on most Mac compatible PCs, so potentially they ARE Windows computers. Although it IS the DS, it's just simply using the provided hardware (Which happens to be the perfect kind, which makes Flashcarts so effective.) with custom software. The DS's do not play games Flashcarts, the DS's hardware is just used, as a computers hardware would be used if the emulation were on a computer.

Virtual PC is a bad example for you, and an excellent one for me. Virtual PC emulates the architecture of a PC, not just the Windows Operating System. Virtual PC can, in fact, be used to install Linux. What it does depends on what you run it on.

Virtual PC is used on older Mac systems that run on a PowerPC processor, which cannot be used with Windows - Windows does not support installation on systems running with that type of processor. The program "Emulates" how an x86 processor works, by translating their inputs and outputs into a format a PowerPC processor can understand. In this way it emulates the x86 and can run Windows or other x86 based OSes.

Virtual PC on x86 processors can be used as a virtual environment, useful for things such as testing out programs or other types of activities with minimal risk to your actual system, acting as a sort of sandbox.

There is no version of Virtual PC for Intel (x86 and variants) based Macs, or the "Mac-compatible PCs" that you mentioned. Microsoft decided against it since Mac developed Boot Camp, which makes it easy to run both OS X and Windows on the same machine.

You don't seem to have quite a good grasp of how game consoles work. Game consoles usually don't run a full operating system like a PC does - it does not need one (Dreamcast used Windows CE, and I believe the Xbox Dashboard is classed as an OS). Thus, any software that is on the game system, in our case the DS, is simply for initialization and common things. When a game runs on a console, it is running as the single piece of software - it is issuing commands directly to the DS processor, which is in turn doing what it is told.  That is the reason for emulators in the first place - they take the instructions from the game software that is given to the DS, translate it into a form that it can display it in (a DirectX environment, for example, as you can see as an option in many emulators, along with OpenGL), and then display it and continue running the game software.

An easier way to think of it is this: A game console is like your computer, but different. It starts up, and begins in its version of DOS, and runs the normal routines it needs to prepare to run the software. Sometimes this initial boot system displays options, like the DS, that let you choose what to do. Once you start to play a game, it finishes what it's doing and boots up the main software. On a PC, this is your main Operating System. But on a game system, it reads software from the game that is inserted into it and runs that. There's no intermediary, it is *the* handling code.

This is why DS games have to be compiled to machine code, usually by the use of a development kit, which compiles a programming language like C++. They are run directly on the hardware.

Sorry if I repeated myself a few times, or if I rambled. But hopefully you get the point. Anyone who thinks it is too long to read isn't important enough for me to convince them.

[Darkfox]

In any which case I'm way more interested in PS2 emulation since it is looking far more accurate than DS emulation.

DS emulation is going to be a slow road as it isn't as related to PC as PS2 games are. There is little in the way of a difference between PS2 and PC games as they have a very similar file architecture but when it comes to a cartridge game system like DS things run quite a bit differently and are handled differently. I will admit though that NDS uses a more PC relative style than GBA but it is still noticably different.

DS games use files, they have a move format and sound format. Often there is a file for colors, a frame file, and the main picture data for one graphic. Animation data also exists, kinda like ripping apart a GIF file into it's components. But this is often how a DS game handles it's data rather than it being one whole like most PC and considerably recent CD using games. And that there is no need to dump a CD/DVD run game to a specific ROM format.

PS2 emulation takes bounds but DS emulation will take baby steps. So to conclude: Don't expect a perfect emulator anytime soon for the DS. It takes a bit more to code a program to play them. I will say, however, that DS emulation, even if slow, is looking rather well considering..

The difference to me is, I actually legally own a PS2 and several games for it already without modchipping or downloading any of them. My key interest in PS2 emulation is basically that the PC is a more controlled environment for testing things in. And it offers a different perspective... mmmm... and I do have a PC controller that looks and acts perfectly like a PS2 controller. XD I just need a newer computer is all.

So DS emulation to me I see as interesting but not too interested in playing DS games. Other than perhaps the Castlevanias but thats pretty much it. That would probably be my reason for buying a Nintendo DS.