Avoiding Cliches, and Why You Shouldn't

[Daetyrnis]

Originally posted by DragonBlaze
And when sepheroth wanted to destory the world it was cuz it'd basically make him a god and it was the will of jenova.

Wasn't it because he wanted to use the planet as a giant spaceship?  At least, that's what I remember.

Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
Personally I don't like a villian who wants to cause descruction to the world period. I prefer villians who seek political power with good intentions. That's just me.

I agree that the antagonist is often better if their goals are actually good ones.  Whether they're just a different good that the protagonist, or they're being acted out in a bad way.  Politics are good, even just as a stepping stone though.

Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
I think the evil overlord idea comes from who you, the creator, wants as the Final Boss. It's hard to come up with one who isn't pure-evil yet who doesn't come out of nowhere (IX'S NECRON HINT HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!). Luckily, I've managed to come up with one.

I really hate those out-of-nowhere bosses.  I mean, FF IX was really lame on that part.  Necron even had a bit of that shoot your head off to stop the headache mentality.

[Roland_Deschain]

Originally posted by Razor

Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
Personally I don't like a villian who wants to cause descruction to the world period. I prefer villians who seek political power with good intentions. That's just me.

Quick, we gotta stop Senator Walton before he proposes his new children's hospital idea![/B]

LOL

Back on the villain subject, what about a villain out for revenge like the typical hero is, using generally evil ways to achieve it?(coughcoughSEPHIROTHcoughcough) Or a villain who's really just a general in command of an opposing army, thus may seem evil to you but you seem evil to him?
But, destroying the world: Laaaaaaaame. "I hate the hero, why don't I kill everyone, even me, to kill him? Yeah, that could work!"
~Deschain

[DragonBlaze]

Originally posted by Roland_Deschain

Originally posted by Razor

Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
Personally I don't like a villian who wants to cause descruction to the world period. I prefer villians who seek political power with good intentions. That's just me.

Quick, we gotta stop Senator Walton before he proposes his new children's hospital idea![/B]

LOL

Back on the villain subject, what about a villain out for revenge like the typical hero is, using generally evil ways to achieve it?(coughcoughSEPHIROTHcoughcough) Or a villain who's really just a general in command of an opposing army, thus may seem evil to you but you seem evil to him?
But, destroying the world: Laaaaaaaame. "I hate the hero, why don't I kill everyone, even me, to kill him? Yeah, that could work!"
~Deschain[/B]

Hardly any of 'destroy the world' plots out there involve the bad guy dying.

[Roland_Deschain]

Originally posted by DragonBlazeHardly any of 'destroy the world' plots out there involve the bad guy dying.[/B]

Actually, technically, they do since the hero kills him/her before they can accomplish it. Besides that, it's kind of an exaggeration on the usual reasons for destroying the world. And, it's simple logic: If you blow up the world you live in, won't you die too?

[Osmose]

You guys act as if being suicidal or being willing to kill oneself for a greater cause is something unheard of.

[Shady Ultima]

I agree

[Roland_Deschain]

Originally posted by Osmose
You guys act as if being suicidal or being willing to kill oneself for a greater cause is something unheard of.

Good point. But, the point I'm trying to make is....
uh..... Lost to eternity thanks to Dr Pepper. Um.... I suppose it had something to do with "Most suicidal terrorists and stuff, while willing to die, are doing so for the good of the world and not to blow it up," but that doesn't make sense at all.

[DragonBlaze]

Well no, I can think of a lot of games that involve destroying the world but the bad guy lives. Like in FF7, if sepheroth destroyed the world, he would be ok, just everyone else would be dead. And a lot of other times 'destroying' the world means breaking the world where its not blown up, but changed to something 'evil' where the bad guy is all powerfull *coughff6cough*

[Roland_Deschain]

Originally posted by DragonBlaze
Well no, I can think of a lot of games that involve destroying the world but the bad guy lives. Like in FF7, if sepheroth destroyed the world, he would be ok, just everyone else would be dead. And a lot of other times 'destroying' the world means breaking the world where its not blown up, but changed to something 'evil' where the bad guy is all powerfull *coughff6cough*

Not quite destroying the world then, is it?  Oh, and Sephiroth doesn't count. He was completely insane!

[Moosetroop11]

Hahaha, my first proper finished game was so cliche' it's unreal. Right at the end everyone went to' the tree of life' where the main bad guy was just sitting there and said something about becoming all powerful XD

Man though, I've devoted too many years of my life to rm2k3. I still have that game and it's sequel on my harddrive, that's like four or five years work.

[Roland_Deschain]

Ugh, my first game was worse than that. I had this friggin Zelda rip-off talking tree, which made no sense in the game's storyline, that just happened to be the Insta-teleporter to the final boss room, where the main bad guy just stood around, waiting or you, the thirteen year old hero who could be mistaken for a porcupine with a greatsword....
It was a mess. I even used different style sprites and faces.

[Osmose]

You guys do realize that Sephiroth did not want to destroy the world, only create a giant wound? Meteor would've killed millions, but a good part of the world would live. His plan was to create a gigantic wound that would take a humongous amount of Mako to heal. Then he would go to the center of that wound and absorb the Mako being sent there by the Planet to heal it (Technically it's the Lifestream and not Mako, but regardless) so that he would become a living god. I believe there might've been something about leaving into space with Jenova after that, but regardless, he didn't want the world to die, otherwise there'd be no Lifestream to absorb power from.

[ZeroKirbyX]

I think I've said it before, but cliches are all in the presentation. You could easily take the same bad guy with the plan for world conquest, and make one better than the other by using dialogue and imagery.

[Roland_Deschain]

Originally posted by Osmose
You guys do realize that Sephiroth did not want to destroy the world, only create a giant wound? Meteor would've killed millions, but a good part of the world would live. His plan was to create a gigantic wound that would take a humongous amount of Mako to heal. Then he would go to the center of that wound and absorb the Mako being sent there by the Planet to heal it (Technically it's the Lifestream and not Mako, but regardless) so that he would become a living god. I believe there might've been something about leaving into space with Jenova after that, but regardless, he didn't want the world to die, otherwise there'd be no Lifestream to absorb power from.

Sephiroth was still crazy. But, yeah, i guess it's still a partially destroy the world goal. That's worth half credit, right?

Originally posted by ZeroKirbyX
I think I've said it before, but cliches are all in the presentation. You could easily take the same bad guy with the plan for world conquest, and make one better than the other by using dialogue and imagery.

True, but what I think is being addressed here is presentation of cliches. What needs to be avoided is the villain who's evil because he can be.

EDIT: Thanks, Moose.

[Moosetroop11]

On a different note, when I first glanced at this topic title I thought it said "Avoiding chickens, and why you shouldn't" and I came here expecting an inane X marks the Ed thread XD