Final Fantasy Fans Come here!!

[rm2k3_rulez]

Polls so far....again lol......
FF1:0
FF2:0
FF5:1
FF6:1
FF7:1
FF8:0
FF9:1
FFX-2:1
FF12:1

[Fisherson]

[Final fnatasy XII is the worst final fantasy released. It was simply FFXI but not online.
It totally slaughtered everything that Final fnatasy stood for and made it into a total mindless and dumb game where you simply put gambits and the characters could clear the entire gameŽon thier own.
I]Originally posted by Prpl_Mage[/I]

!

Final fnatasy XII is the worst final fantasy released. It was simply FFXI but not online.
It totally slaughtered everything that Final fnatasy stood for and made it into a total mindless and dumb game where you simply put gambits and the characters could clear the entire gameŽon thier own.

You know prpl mage if you don't want the characters to do stuff without you
do turn them ON or set them to healer mode with Cure,Stona and Vox
or if you want a real chalange try playing the whole game with just Vaan in
your party.

[Prpl_Mage]

Originally posted by Fisherson
or if you want a real chalange try playing the whole game with just Vaan in
your party.

Yeah, that's the only way to perhaps have some fun with the game and get some chalenge.
There is no other way(except no license board, oh forgot that. The licence board sucked as well)

[Dragonium]

Favourite Version: Final Fantasy VIII (.
Favourite Character: Irvine (FFVIII) or Auron (FFX). I must admit although FFX was kinda middle-of-the-road, Auron's storyline was pretty awesome.
Favourite Spell or Summon: Alexander from FFVIII was pretty awesome. Also Bahamut (FFX).

[aboutasoandthis]

Okay Prpl_Mage we all know you hate FFXII, so it's time to argue again.

Final fnatasy XII is the worst final fantasy released. It was simply FFXI but not online.

This is a bad idea?

It totally slaughtered everything that Final fnatasy stood for and made it into a total mindless and dumb game where you simply put gambits and the characters could clear the entire gameŽon thier own.

What exactly does Final Fantasy stand for? Even Hironobu Sakaguchi liked it, and even said in an interview that he tried to make the exact same game with FFI. If the game is so bad, why did it get a Famitsu 40/40, and a 92 average on Metacritic?

Final fantasy XII is a disgrace in every way to the series...

Everything in the game that isn’t a safe zone (town) is called a dungeon in game design terms. The game was modeled after western dungeon crawlers which do the exact same thing. Everything else you put here is just nitpicking.

And what else? The bosses! Oh **** those bosse. Finaf ******* fantasy xii got the worst ******* bosses ever...

I'll give you this. FFXII's boss fights felt really out of place. A lot of modern JRPGs do this though. Play Lost Odyssey. It happens left and right.

At least they were pretty and fun to play.

What else? Final fantasy XII killed everything that is called character development and storyline...

The game had plenty. You didn't pay attention.

Final fantasy is so boring and lame that I'm the only one out of 5 hardcore Final fantasy players that even bothered clearing the game.

Game Designers really don't like their hardcore fans. It holds them back from innovation. Role-playing games need to evolve, JRPGs especially.

Gambit yapping...

You have to tell me how you did this. Even after reading gambit guides I would still get my *** kicked if I didn't at least watch the screen.

I know every complaint about FFXII because that's what my game is based off of.
-A less character driven story.
-Relentless slaughter of monsters
-Boss design
-Gambit system with no consequences
-Statistic development

These are all comepletely fixable and I wish Squenix would try the game again. Unfortunately they're listening to you people. You'll have your ATB system and your Anime style back when XIII comes out.

[Moosetroop11]

Originally posted by Prpl_Mage
Sai Kar even wrote that in her "boss guide and tips" in the tutorial section.

I just hated Vaan. I just couldn't bring myself to like him. In fact, all of the characters were pretty crappy. I didn't really feel any urge to win the game at all... maybe something interesting would've happened if the good guys had failed.

Add to that the completely awful final battle and it erases most of the good points in the game. There definately were good bits, I remember enjoying it... But the characters and the anticlimaticness let it down loads.

I'm not expecting them to make a good FF again anyway... All the original team has left.

FF6, FF7 and FF8 is the period I remember fondest. FF7 gets my vote.

[Prpl_Mage]

Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
Okay Prpl_Mage we all know you hate FFXII, so it's time to argue again.

Final fnatasy XII is the worst final fantasy released. It was simply FFXI but not online.

This is a bad idea?

It totally slaughtered everything that Final fnatasy stood for and made it into a total mindless and dumb game where you simply put gambits and the characters could clear the entire gameŽon thier own.

What exactly does Final Fantasy stand for? Even Hironobu Sakaguchi liked it, and even said in an interview that he tried to make the exact same game with FFI. If the game is so bad, why did it get a Famitsu 40/40, and a 92 average on Metacritic?

Final fantasy XII is a disgrace in every way to the series...

Everything in the game that isn’t a safe zone (town) is called a dungeon in game design terms. The game was modeled after western dungeon crawlers which do the exact same thing. Everything else you put here is just nitpicking.

And what else? The bosses! Oh **** those bosse. Finaf ******* fantasy xii got the worst ******* bosses ever...

I'll give you this. FFXII's boss fights felt really out of place. A lot of modern JRPGs do this though. Play Lost Odyssey. It happens left and right.

At least they were pretty and fun to play.

What else? Final fantasy XII killed everything that is called character development and storyline...

The game had plenty. You didn't pay attention.

Final fantasy is so boring and lame that I'm the only one out of 5 hardcore Final fantasy players that even bothered clearing the game.

Game Designers really don't like their hardcore fans. It holds them back from innovation. Role-playing games need to evolve, JRPGs especially.

Gambit yapping...

You have to tell me how you did this. Even after reading gambit guides I would still get my *** kicked if I didn't at least watch the screen.
[/B]

Here we go, anti-arguing.

1. Yes, it is a bad idea. The battle system works where you actually cooperate with other players and the world itself are just huge mountain trails, swamps and plains without anything that ties it down to the originality that the previous games actually had.

Large reality-like areas without anything special in them works. When there are a lot of quests to do in the area. FFXII simply had the mosnter hunt.

2. The fact that he liked it is becasue artists like himself could never live to release a failure.
And the ratings mostly comes from the popularity of the series, they know that the readers will be upset if their favourite game get's a bad rating.
That and the graphics, they think that the graphics are good(only thing I really can't argue with) that they put a high rating.

3. Of course it is a disgrace, the game is nothing like it's predecessors, it could just as well been known as "Imperial wars" or "streetkid and princess on a picnic". The only thing that tied it to final fantasy was the reoccuring monsters, the FFTA races and some names. There was no Cactuars in the game, instead there were some fugly **** called cactoids.

And yes, I miss the dungeons. I was mindlessly walking around on plains 80% of the games trying to get from one point to the other for absolutely nothing to happen....

4. Thank you for your understanding.
The main problem I had with it was the fact that most bosses in the game was actually just size and skin-swap on the game's ordinary monsters. The dragons in the cave and the forest, that thing in the temple, the firehorse in the sewers, the golem in the rhidorana cataract. Just random and really lame.

5. It didn't. Vaan's personality is barely moved from 0.1 to 0.5 during the game. The covnerstions was simply out of place. The only thing that seemed to be the cause of a personality would eb when Vaan asked Fran's age.
Ashe? Nothing happens, not a single **** that wasn't expected since the beginning of the game.  Not even after that thing with the gods in Giruvegan.
Balthier; O, I'm a sky pirate looking for shinies... No I'm tagging along to see to it that the princess doesn't abuse the power like my father did... And then I put him out of his misery.
Fran. Just no, nothing happens with her except that part with the forest, and the fact that she is randomly driven into a berserk on the ship... I never saw Venat there...
Basch... Oh Basch... He is the coolest character in the game since he actually says something smart from time to time. Just too bad that it isn't much compared to the others.
Don't let me get started on the rest though.
Character development in the game on a scale of 1 to 10? 1 maybe 2.
There was barely any conversations and they all seemed out of place, like that one at the beach.
And I stick to my previous comment elsewhere where I said that anyone could've gotten together with anyone at the end. Vaan showed just as much affection to her highness as Basch and Balthier

The story then?
It's really lame... It's all:
I', Vaan and bored out of my mind. I hate arcadians 'cuz they killed my brother.
I want to play Robin Hood and steal from the castle. Oh mister indie-guy, do I need a sun stone?
So Vaan goes to the desert and runs around and light some sun stones to charge his sun stone. Now you are ready for the castle and the annoying voice of Vaan saying "hey bucket head!"
You sneak your way past and finds the treasury, oddly enough finds a piece of nethercite that two sky pirates want. So they grab it and the arcadians blows part of the castle up since they knew that the rebellion should attack.
You fall down into the sewers and make your way back but finds the cornered princess on the way.
You get your team together and fights a boss battle... Against? 4 flans.
You keep going and reach the exit... What's there? A burning horse! The arcadians appear after you defeat the horse and you are sent to prison.
While going there Balthier gives Penello a hankie so that she won't cry for Vaan's missing.
You try to defend this guy in prison but gets some help from Balthier and then a judge master appears and gives a band of mercenaries a can of woopass for meddling with things beyond their rights. You then make your way after the judge master and finds Basch in a cage. He was frammed for the murder of the king and Reks(Vaan's bro) by his twin brother!
So Vaan hates him and bash the cage, the guards come running but Balthier lowers the cage into the dungeon. Vaan gives Basch a beating but then you have to fight your way through an old mine filled with mimics.
At the end you fight the mimic queen and exits in the desert. Balthier and his gal' heads back to take his airship whil Basch wants to sort somthings out.
You head bakc to find that Penello was kidnapped because the bounty hunters thought that she was Balthier's friend.
You go to Bujerba to find her and party up with a guy I thought was a girl to begin with... You head down into the mine and finds out about Bujerba's currect position in the war.
You head deeper and the kid finds some magecite really interesting. While at it ther bounty hunters appear and you run all the way back. The Arcadians are wating outise and it is revealed that the kid is Larsa, some arcadian noble. He takes Penello with him.
You now have to run around as Vaan and stand "Hey! Basch lives" and "I'm captain Basch von Rosenberg!"

And after that? barely anything. Most of my friends gave up at this point.

6. Aye perhaps but they had nothing against FFX, and most of them have done speedruns and one cahracter runs as well as a couple of "No sphere grids" and such just to be able to enjoy the games again. I was the only one who completed FFXII it was a waste of time and I'm only gonna play it if someone challenges me on a bet or pays me.

And yes, RPG's need to evolve. But not into MMORPG-offline. It's just stupid, don't kill final fantasy, leave it to die in that case. Name the game "Omega warriors" or something and create a new series, one that includes crappy MMORPG based RPGs.

7. The gambits wasn't hard. I had gambits for protect, sheel, bubble and all those boosting spells. Had crossed the licence board with every character about halfway through the game(thanks to that accesory), and Vaan was simply using bravery, haste and berserk on himseld(and a lot of other stufff as well). So one of my characters was simply healing and the thid one was using scourge( I think) over and over unless people needed healing.
I went down, grabbed my sandwich and the boss was charging his Terra-thingy, my characters where at 9999(but higher with the Bubble I think) and the attack did like 4-7k I think.
The healer used Curaja and everyone was fit to go again. I sat there and ate my sandwich. The boss kept spamming me with piercing Holy but the damage was pathetic.
The only time I actually did something was when he switched so he couldn't be damaged by ordinary attacks. I went into Vaan's gambits and repalced the Berserk with "Black shades".

And I thought that Venat would at least escape and start his grand plan at the end of that battle. That the game was finally starting. Imagine my dissapointment when that long AMV started to play.

To end this. You can continue to like FFXII, it might be because of the story but seriously. Hereos of Mana had a better "political storyline" than this game. it would've been better of with the cheesy "love story" at least there would've been a story.
I don't like FFXII, it's the most boring RPG I've played. Rm games made with the makers battle system even appeals to me more than FF Offline.

And I'm done here

[A Forgotten Legend]

I got stuck in the tunnel thing. =/  I still haven't tried to get farther.

Anyway... I liked FFX.  The storyline was very interesting.  It involved every person in the world.  I mean, how many games have a religion that is the main cause of their suffering!  I haven't beaten it yet, but I i know what happens (damn you auganauf99 for showing me the last bit of the game!!!!!!!)

My favorite character has got to be Vivi.  Only because I used Doomsday with (her...?)  the first time I played it and Doomsday is awesome.

Summon wise I like Ixion. dunno why, just do.

[Osmose]

FF12 is too cool for you. Your wall of text doesn't change the fact that FF12 was a great game that took some risks and was better for it. FF11 offline? Hardly(Have you even played? I wasted two months on that game [Looking at you, Sai]). Nothing but hunts? Check the billboards or, heaven forbid, talk to people.

If you really want, we can get a team to hack FF12 and have everyone stand in rows and fight, change Scourge to FIR4, and remove the lush landscapes and replace them with uninteresting cookie cutter dungeons (Ice, Fire, Cave, Castle, Sky, etc). Perhaps that would be more to your liking?

Also, Sai has a penis, FYI.

Oh yes,

I mean, how many games have a religion that is the main cause of their suffering!

FFT, best game evar. Also Tales of Symphonia and Morrowind.

[Apex]

Favorite Version: Duuuuh, I dddddddunnno.
Favorite Character: I like Zidane, Auron, Ramza and Gogo.
Favorite Spell or Summon: Alexander, but I never use Summons unless I'm playing IV, in which I use Bahamut only.

There are too many great aspects to this game series, it honestly has to be my favorite, been playing them since us3 (VI) all the way back in 1995 or so. I'm all set for both Final Fantasy XIII/Versus.

Now, someone bring something else up about Final Fantasy for me to debate.

Also, Breath of Fire 2 involves an evil religion. Not an unheard of plot hook.

[rm2k3_rulez]

As I see we're kinda in a debate between whether or not Final Fantasy 12 is a decent game so for now, I've just stopped taking votes but I'll now let anyone give a reason to why or why not Final Fantasy 12 is a good game or not. You have to give a reason though or it wont be counted as a vote. The votes will now be tallyed up to whether or not FF12 is a good game or not, so start voting  Example Below

My Oppinion:
I think the game sux. It ruins the Final Fantasy fighting style I mean how realistic is pressing triangle or whatever then freezes the game choose your command then wait for the flippin' bar to load just to land the attack. And get this it friken repeats the action unless you cancle it which makes it annoying as He11. So my vote is FF12 is not a good game my reason it ruined the battle system.

Polls so far starting now:
Good Game: 0
Bad Game: 1

[aboutasoandthis]

1. So what you're saying is
- Make the Dungeons wackier?
- Add More Quests?

Both Fixable.

2. Lost Odyssey is getting bad ratings, and in my personal opinion it's disappointing. From your argument it's the true successor to FFX and the FF series, and yet it still sucks. This is the game that Sakaguchi left Square for, pulled most of the prominents team members away for, asked the Shadow Hearts team to design the gameplay, hired a professional novelist to write it, and hired a respected comic book artist to design the characters, and yet is still sucked. Why did he release this game based on your argument?

3. Dude, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Square calls the shots, not an outside-of-nation fanboy. All a Final Fantasy game needs to be a Final Fantasy game is a Chocobo. The game actually had a lot of FF references. Most of them were the boss fights. All they really needed was a bigger fix on the storyline.

4. They had to do this to use the new battle system in the first place. Way back when they were designing your precious X, they wanted the characters and enemies to move around the field with no battle screens. They've been trying to get FFXII's system down for a long time.

They couldn't do this because they had too many enemies with different animations in the game. That's why they used the turn based combat. They tried it again in FFXI and FFX-2. In X-2, they managed to get everyone moving around the field in the battle screen, and they created a prototype of XII with that Gunner's Guantlet minigame and XI.

5. I'm reading a book on writing novels right now, and it says that a character just has to change from his initial personality to his opposite.

Vaan Beginning: I'm a whiny kid who thinks he can do whatever he wants.
Vaan Ending: There are things out there in the world that are greater than I am.
Ashe Beginning: Everything in the world is either good or evil. The empire's wrong, I am right.
Ashe Ending: Nothing can be categorized that way. I understand the empire's intentions.
Balthier Beginning: I can live wherever I want and do what I damn well please. I can even change my name.
Balthier Ending: I can't run from my problems forever. I have to face them and deal with them, even if it means losing something.

I'll give you Fran, Basch, and Penelo, but they acted like real people which NEVER happens in JRPs. Plus Al Cid, Cidolfus, Gabaranth, Larsa, and Vossler kick ***.

The story is slow and full of filler, I'll admit it. It makes up for this by being and actual STORY and not a corny videogame/anime story. Look at X.

-My name's Tidus. I'm a rich celebrity athlete whose still in high school.
-I sleep with a lot of women, but I'm actually sad because my dad yelled at me.
-There's this cool Asian dude who folllows me around. I don't know why he's friends with my dad though.
-A whale destroys my hometown.
-I wake up in an ancient temple. This really nice girl saved me.
-I WOKE UP 1000 YEARS IN THE FUTURE?!?!
-This Jamaican dude saves me. They have Blitzball!
-I walking around to- THAT GIRL IS HOT!
-So she's this really important Summoner girl. Cool
-Her dad is famous. I wonder where he is.
-I can tag along, cool.
-Hey, its that Rikku girl again. I wonder why people hate her.
-That Seymour dude is creepy.
-Hey it's Auron.
-People need to be danced to, otherwise they'll be zombies.
-YUNA'S GOING TO DIE?!?!
-Let's finish the rest of the game. We'll figure something out.
-Seymour hates me, and wants to marry Yuna.
-We rescue her!
-The race of people who use machines decide to help us.
-Yuna is secretly part of this race of people.
-The race of people get attacked.
-Let's head to the final city!
-I DON'T EXIST?!?!?
-I don't exist, and yet my dad who also doesn't exist has turned into the giant whale by befriending Yuna's dad, who is forced to become evil because he's friends with her dad.
-Dad says he loves me in a bunch of home movies he left around the world, even though I'm 1000 years in the future.
-I'm not actually 1000 years in the future. My hometown is just on the otherside of the world.
-My hometown was actually destroyed 1000 years ago. I'm actually a dream kid who lives in a dream town on top of the real one. That's why dad as a whale attacking us and destroying the town makes sense.
-Okay Seymour stop it. We're going to kill you this final time.
-This summoner girl who was a zombie for a thousand years doesn't like us. Le'ts kill her!
-Final dungeon, here we go!
-If we kill dad as a whale, the summoners closest friend will become the whale. So I'm going to be a whale? I thought I didn't exist? The sleeping kids who made me say I'm going to disappear. Maybe if I become the whale I'll fade away and stop?
-Instead of killing the whale, let's kill the bearded dude and the other Aeons!
-Wait, so dad, you're the whale and the bearded dude?
-I hate you dad! Now can I kill you?
-FINAL BATTLE!
-Final Fantasy Fanfare plays.
-So now we have to kill the floating symbol thing, okay.
-High Five Dad!
-I have to disappear forever now Yuna. Goodbye.
-Auron was dead this whole time?

Since the others were Playstation RPGs, X was the only game XII can be comepared to, and I hated that game with a passion. They threw out everything in X and replaced it, and I am completely thankful for that. That's why I love XII.

[Grandy]

Originally posted by aboutasoandthis
1. So what you're saying is
- Make the Dungeons wackier?
- Add More Quests?

Both Fixable.

2. Lost Odyssey is getting bad ratings, and in my personal opinion it's disappointing. From your argument it's the true successor to FFX and the FF series, and yet it still sucks. This is the game that Sakaguchi left Square for, pulled most of the prominents team members away for, asked the Shadow Hearts team to design the gameplay, hired a professional novelist to write it, and hired a respected comic book artist to design the characters, and yet is still sucked. Why did he release this game based on your argument?

3. Dude, I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Square calls the shots, not an outside-of-nation fanboy. All a Final Fantasy game needs to be a Final Fantasy game is a Chocobo. The game actually had a lot of FF references. Most of them were the boss fights. All they really needed was a bigger fix on the storyline.

4. They had to do this to use the new battle system in the first place. Way back when they were designing your precious X, they wanted the characters and enemies to move around the field with no battle screens. They've been trying to get FFXII's system down for a long time.

They couldn't do this because they had too many enemies with different animations in the game. That's why they used the turn based combat. They tried it again in FFXI and FFX-2. In X-2, they managed to get everyone moving around the field in the battle screen, and they created a prototype of XII with that Gunner's Guantlet minigame and XI.

5. I'm reading a book on writing novels right now, and it says that a character just has to change from his initial personality to his opposite.

Vaan Beginning: I'm a whiny kid who thinks he can do whatever he wants.
Vaan Ending: There are things out there in the world that are greater than I am.
Ashe Beginning: Everything in the world is either good or evil. The empire's wrong, I am right.
Ashe Ending: Nothing can be categorized that way. I understand the empire's intentions.
Balthier Beginning: I can live wherever I want and do what I damn well please. I can even change my name.
Balthier Ending: I can't run from my problems forever. I have to face them and deal with them, even if it means losing something.

I'll give you Fran, Basch, and Penelo, but they acted like real people which NEVER happens in JRPs. Plus Al Cid, Cidolfus, Gabaranth, Larsa, and Vossler kick ***.

The story is slow and full of filler, I'll admit it. It makes up for this by being and actual STORY and not a corny videogame/anime story. Look at X.

-My name's Tidus. I'm a rich celebrity athlete whose still in high school.
-I sleep with a lot of women, but I'm actually sad because my dad yelled at me.
-There's this cool Asian dude who folllows me around. I don't know why he's friends with my dad though.
-A whale destroys my hometown.
-I wake up in an ancient temple. This really nice girl saved me.
-I WOKE UP 1000 YEARS IN THE FUTURE?!?!
-This Jamaican dude saves me. They have Blitzball!
-I walking around to- THAT GIRL IS HOT!
-So she's this really important Summoner girl. Cool
-Her dad is famous. I wonder where he is.
-I can tag along, cool.
-Hey, its that Rikku girl again. I wonder why people hate her.
-That Seymour dude is creepy.
-Hey it's Auron.
-People need to be danced to, otherwise they'll be zombies.
-YUNA'S GOING TO DIE?!?!
-Let's finish the rest of the game. We'll figure something out.
-Seymour hates me, and wants to marry Yuna.
-We rescue her!
-The race of people who use machines decide to help us.
-Yuna is secretly part of this race of people.
-The race of people get attacked.
-Let's head to the final city!
-I DON'T EXIST?!?!?
-I don't exist, and yet my dad who also doesn't exist has turned into the giant whale by befriending Yuna's dad, who is forced to become evil because he's friends with her dad.
-Dad says he loves me in a bunch of home movies he left around the world, even though I'm 1000 years in the future.
-I'm not actually 1000 years in the future. My hometown is just on the otherside of the world.
-My hometown was actually destroyed 1000 years ago. I'm actually a dream kid who lives in a dream town on top of the real one. That's why dad as a whale attacking us and destroying the town makes sense.
-Okay Seymour stop it. We're going to kill you this final time.
-This summoner girl who was a zombie for a thousand years doesn't like us. Le'ts kill her!
-Final dungeon, here we go!
-If we kill dad as a whale, the summoners closest friend will become the whale. So I'm going to be a whale? I thought I didn't exist? The sleeping kids who made me say I'm going to disappear. Maybe if I become the whale I'll fade away and stop?
-Instead of killing the whale, let's kill the bearded dude and the other Aeons!
-Wait, so dad, you're the whale and the bearded dude?
-I hate you dad! Now can I kill you?
-FINAL BATTLE!
-Final Fantasy Fanfare plays.
-So now we have to kill the floating symbol thing, okay.
-High Five Dad!
-I have to disappear forever now Yuna. Goodbye.
-Auron was dead this whole time?

Since the others were Playstation RPGs, X was the only game XII can be comepared to, and I hated that game with a passion. They threw out everything in X and replaced it, and I am completely thankful for that. That's why I love XII.

 I see you take notes like I do.

[aboutasoandthis]

Wikipedia helps.

[Fisherson]

The game i hated most was FF5 it was horrible ,sure it had fair class
system but come on the story is horrible that if i didn't know it was SquireEnix
i would think a total noob from this site made it.also thank you aboutasoandthis and osmose
for defending FF12.You both should get a medal for that in my opion and any
body who is a fan of final fantasy,the game ht got me into RPG making in the
begining,is a freind to Fisherson.
Bye the way does Kingdom Hearts count as final fatasy?I only ask
becuase the FF characters apear there and all.