The RIAA, DRM, And the ethics/morality of downloading music.

[Uberpwn_w00t]

Okay everybody.

Some guys from a group called SIFE came to my school last week. They did a short presentation on the ethics of downloading music. I am required to write an essay on the subject, and explain my views. I am already pretty heavily set on one side, and I know nothing is going to change my mind now, BUT...

I want to hear what you guys have to say about it.

...Discuss.

[Desimodontidae]

[Ben]

Its up to the Industry to find a way to adapt to this. Not the consumer.

As it stands now, the industry is attacking the consumers, rather then trying to find a way to adapt to a changing industry.
By attacking the consumers as they have been, they do nothing but aleinate more consumers, and perpetuate more downloading.

Jacking up Product Prices, while Pressing lawsuits to set and example to other consumers, shows that they are not willing to adapt.

[Roland_Deschain]

The fact is, downloading music illegally really does little to affect the industry. Musicians are overpaid for what they do, and this is coming from the lead singer of a band. Popular artists shouldn't be paid as much as they are.
As far as the income argument, think of this. Radio stations still buy singles from the music biz, and how many radio stations are in the U.S. alone? That and outside of online imports that are usually overpriced, it's the only way to get a few bands that aren't big in your country. Not to mention indie bands, rare CD's that aren't in local stores or easy to buy.
Some bands even ENCOURAGE downloading their music, case in point: Lovecraaft, a French death metal band. Before MySpace fucked with the way music was set up, they frequently made their songs available for free download.
Basically? I'm against prohibiting it. Regulate, maybe. Prohibit? No.

[fruckert]

Definitely agree with you Roland
Regulating, yes. Prohibiting, no

[Hell Angel]

I pirate like crazy and find little, if nothing, wrong with it. The difference with me is, if I like something enough, I will go buy it. For the casing, art, and to help the band I like. I don't see the point in illegalizing something like that, though. Because as I see it, music is something you can get everywhere. Illegalize radio stations... illegalize music videos... illegalize all that. If a band wants to garner money, concerts do that just fine. Think classical age, beethoven and all them only profited from holding live concerts. It's not like they did it for the rage of money, as most bands would, these days. Not only did they only profit from concerts, but their music was FAR more detailed and higher in quality then modern bands. It shouldn't take four guys to write most of the **** spewing out of the music industry.

My point is, bands should be playing music for the fame and the passion. Not for the dough. If they want money, CDs aren't the way to go anyway. But like I said, if I really like an album, I'll go out and buy it anyway. It's too damn convenient to have the worlds music at your disposal, to just complain about it...

[Prpl_Mage]

Yeah, the music industry need to adapt.
I mean, you can more or less put a Cd in your computer and after some modifications it's stored there and all your friends can share the songs of great mirth.

Think about those old larger CDs , or the tapes. Good luck pirating them.

Music is made in MP3, which can be downloaded and put on MP3 players.
Now, how am I supposed to get any good music on there if I didn't download it? And on the side, a lot of music doesn't even show up here in Sweden unless I travel to some far-off music store 2 hours away, then there might be a possibility to find it.

And really, sites who say "Pay us and download legally" that's just sad. Who the hell pay for downloading a song when you might as well just do a google search and find it for free.
And besides, just as with games: I only download what I can't find.

[DragonBlaze]

I find this really funny. We download music and other stuff illegally, and then we try to put the blame for what we're doing on the music companies (or whoever else). The fact is, if WE are downloading THEIR content illegally, it is OUR fault. Think about it, if you made you're own music track or game, and then decided to sell it, you wouldn't be too happy if you lost 50% of you're revenue to people getting you're stuff illegally. Then if you tried to take measures to make it harder for people to use you're stuff illegally, how would you feel if people started basing you for making you're products harder to use (illegally).

We even go as far as to try and justify ourselves by saying "I wouldn't have bought it anyway, so I did no harm in downloading it". Thats the same as going to the store and stealing a candy bar saying, "I wasn't going to buy the candy bar, so I might as well steal it".

People spend a lot of time and money making the stuff we just simply download illegally, how is this not morally wrong. What is even worse is when people try to blame the companies or other people for their own illegal actions.

[Ben]

dude, thats weak. so weak.

Some companies are adapting to this. (itunes comes to mind)

And some File lawsuits against families whos children download to fill their MP3 players.

If i hear about say, Warner Music Filing suit against a family because of the example mentioned above, I usually decide not to buy the CD.

Sure, its up to the consumer to be ethical about it. Personally I buy albums I like because I want it around. I dont want to re DL it if it gets lost. I buy albums for the Art. To support the group.

As for musicians being overpaid, thats a crock. Some are, yes. Most Professional Musicians Are not. They do things like Play shows at clubs for 500-5000 a pop, which really, dosent cover living expenses and equipment and feed the family, as it were.


Its up to the industry to adapt. Its up to the musicians to Promote and Tour.

Ever notice that since Music Downloading, we get Way more big shows coming to out of the Way venues? Of course not, Because most of you are too young to remember the days when people bought Vinyl and whatnot.


Im gonna full on say DBs argument is BS. And that he would do well getting a job for a record company.



Not to mention, More small and independant bands are getting notoriety and selling the rights to things like TV comercials, and perpetuating ad revenue to TV and Radio Stations.

A professional Musician Should not be in it for "The passion and music". They should be professional About it. And aim to not fail.


Attacking the consumer wont accomplish anything. Im not saying that the downloading is Morally justified (even though I think it is) Im saying that its a consumer trend. Like E books. And its up to the publishers and Professionals to figure out a way to adapt to a changing industry. Music or otherwise.

[Drace]

Bands with big names get enough money. There will always be fans who either want to see them live and are willing to pay 20 bucks to 50 bucks an evening a person for them; or fans who want to have their cd's in their collection.

Now I won't deny, I download music. I download loads of music. A really ****ing lot, actually. But there is one type of artist which I rather buy (read: Buy and rip as MP3) than download and that are underground bands. The unknown ones, the ones who people don't pay enough attention too. Names like Metallica, Papa Roach, System of a Down; they can make enough money. I paid 20 euros for my Serj Tankian ticket. My girlfriend and a friend did the same. That's 60 euros from us. And there was a huge crowd. I mean, at least 200.

Now I know, downloading is illegal. But asking 15 to 25 euros for a cd, that's a lot in my opinion. I make 5.50 euro an hour, I like over 200 bands. I need to work two till five hours for something I can listen 30 to 50 minutes to. Worth it? Not really.

My opinion, bands GET enough money and help the underground bands more than the big ones.

[Roland_Deschain]

Gem, Dragonblaze: I agree with you guys to an extent, however until the music biz does something as far as making downloadable songs/cd's cheaper, people with little money really don't have much of a choice.

Oh and as far as downloading music goes, I don't, not illegally anyway. I listen to a lot of indie bands, many of whom have all their songs on the net for free download legally. As for big name bands, I tend to borrow CD's from my friends and put the songs on my computer. Which is illegal for some reason, though I see no harm in it, the CD was still BOUGHT.
And I use OpenPandora for music lately so there's that.

[Drace]

I tend to borrow CD's from my friends and put the songs on my computer. Which is illegal for some reason, though I see no harm in it, the CD was still BOUGHT.

What you do is still illegal, using stuff someone else bought for your own goods. It is the exact same thing as downloading. The cds I download have all been bought, otherwise they wouldn't exist.

[Prpl_Mage]

What I'm saying is that they need to invent a new kind of either: filetype or media type.

Just making the new CDs in a different shape and fashion so they won't be plugged into a computer (unless you buy something that's made for that purpose for about 70bucks) would prevent it a lot.
And I mostly download old nostalgia music, music that you probably will only find in one of two options:
Garage sales.
If the band ever decides to make a "greatest hits" album(which is really unthinkable).

But I'd buy a CD if I found something worth buying. But I really don't like much of today's music.
And another thing is that I absolutely doesn't like every single song on an album. I can like about 1-3 songs as most and the other songs are just ***-kissery or crap.
So instead of buying a CD for about 20€ I download that one song that I like.
It's not like I'll put on a CD just to listen to one song.

As for games. Last thing I downloaded was Phantasy star online, and that's because I wanted to get acces to those player-hosted servers since SEGA closed theirs. Before that? Ruins of Azagayle and that's Drakiyth's rpgm game. I usually don't download game. I see that as far more serious than music.
There are large companies behind the bands pulling the strings and making them appear on TV and taking their nice pile of money for themselves.

Games on the other hand, that's professional and passion. I'd never download any of today's games if I wanted it. For example. I'm the only person in my class owning a legal copy of Warcraft III and the frozen throne.
So when the class gets together to play; we can't use the battlenet. Because out of 20 people, only 1 can access it.

And besides, I download Nes, Snes and N64 games. Sometimes PS1 games and that's because you really can't find them any more.

[Grandy]

We even go as far as to try and justify ourselves by saying "I wouldn't have bought it anyway, so I did no harm in downloading it". Thats the same as going to the store and stealing a candy bar saying, "I wasn't going to buy the candy bar, so I might as well steal it".

Nope. There is only one bar. One song is infinitelly reproduced after one recording. If the band had to re-perform the song for each single CD copy, I'd agree with you.

[Dominicy]

To some extent I'm ashamed to say that I honestly don't care too much.  I try to put myself in the band's place: I live comfortably, people enjoy my work.  It's a touchy subject, and I realize my views are a bit... self-indulgent?  Dunno if that'd be the right word to use for it, but hey.

As for games, which Prpl brought up, the only games that I honestly see as worth playing these days are pretty much entirely free-ware or abandon-ware, so I can say that I download the majority of what I play.