American Politics: Small talk

[drenrin2120]

On the repeal of "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the US military, which restricts gay and lesbian people from serving openly in the US Army. However, it also states that no person can be asked about the sexual identity. Even so, thousands of people have been dismissed from the US Army after admitting they were gay or lesbian since the bill was passed in 1993.

So, I read about this in the newspaper today. And it makes me pretty happy that this went through and it's going to be repealed. Its still shocking to hear what opponent's of it have to say. John McCain called it a "sad day in American History." Ouch, that's pretty rough Mr. McCain.

Still, I think republicans who were more fiercely against this were just hoping to get through to January when they take over the house, that way they wouldn't have to even think about homosexualites in the military for at least another two years. Sneaky bastages.

So, pretty good news in my opinions, despite the fact the DREAM act was not passed and another bill, which would supply health care for 9\11 rescuers who came down with severe or terminal illnesses due to their exposure to various toxicities at ground zero, was again denied... Atleast there's one thing to be happy about.

Oh, and the extension of tax cuts. I can't imagine why one democrat or republican would vote against that, even if they didn't like certain things in it. The time for debate has come and passed, extend this tax cut and debate it later. Jeezum.



BTdubs, these are just my opinions, I don't mean to sound... like I'm right. What I mean to say is, I understand not everyone shares the same views on the above topics as I do.

ALSO, if you have any Anti-American sentiments you'd like to voice, please do so elsewhere, I don't want this thread to become a "**** the US" flame fest.

[SaiKar]

What are we even talking about?

[drenrin2120]

xD

I always forget that there are like two other USians on this forum.

I was talking about repeal of don't ask don't tell. Its a policy that basically says gays can serve in the military, but if they're open about it, they get dismissed (fired).

I had it in the topic headline but I erased it before posting.

[fruckert]

It got repealed, I think.
That means openly gay American's can serve.
Something that other governments have had for a long time.

****ing America.

[drenrin2120]

They can serve openly. And no one can be dismissed for being gay. All the arguments against it are pretty ridiculous. Basically, they amount to, "but if we let the gays in, they'll gay up the place, and their gayness will cause straight soldiers to lose focus and get shot in battle."

[Archem]

I doubt our troops are ****ing in foxholes.


...Note to self: "****ing in Foxholes", perfect for war-themed pornography.

[Ben]

the fact that Americans actually have to spend time, money and energy to both have a rule exluding homos from the army, and fix the rule about homos in the army, speaks volumes about western culture's levels of retard.

[SaiKar]

Basically, they amount to, "but if we let the gays in, they'll gay up the place, and their gayness will cause straight soldiers to lose focus and get shot in battle."

That's a pretty wattered-down version of the argument, but yeah, the overall feeling is that it hurts morale and destroys squad togetherness. It's noooot as unrooted as it might sound. Like it or not, moronic or not, a fair portion of this country is extremely homophobic. Maybe that speaks volumes about our culture's retardness or maybe it doesn't, but it's the facts of today. I think we can all hope that it won't be a big of a deal as some fear it is and we can just collectively move on.

[drenrin2120]

yeeeess, very true. Can't really deny that.

I'm betting it won't be nearly as bad as people say. I find it hard to believe there is really a "good" or "bad" time to do this (politically, now may be the only time for a long while to come, that is, if republicans can maintain a majority rule for the next "x" amount of years).

I've also heard the argument that everyone in the army already knows who is and isn't gay, they just don't talk about it. That's an interesting bit of information to chew on.

I can see this being a problem in the Marines though... But, I'm for it, now or never, better or worse, because this country needs to do some catching up. Something like 14,000 people being dismissed because their gay or lesbian is kind of ridiculous.

[drenrin2120]

The Marines are just uber menly men. And they're generally dumb(no offense to anyone, I know I'm generalizing). But in my opinion, I feel like that group of people will have the hardest time adjusting to openly gay men and women in the army.

I don't think this is a bad thing. It's a good thing. But just like any civil rights kind of act, people fight back against this sort of stuff because they feel threatened. It doesn't matter whether they literally are being threatened. Because, obviously, in this case, there's no real threat. I don't understand homophobia. But to someone who's homophobic, they're genuinely, ignorantly afraid of gay people because of the misconceptions they've come to accept about people who are gay.

btw, the Marines are just hardcore Soldierly guys, the Navy is where the sailors are at.

The bottom line is, disorderly conduct is disorderly conduct. Gay men and women in the army still have to act appropriately, they have to act like soldiers. If they don't, it doesn't matter if they're gay or straight, they receive the same punishment. The point is, gay guys aren't going to start wearing rainbow coats and *** chaps to Monday morning PT.

[Zerlina]

But now what are you going to do when you get to Iraq and change your mind?

[Prpl_Mage]

In Sweden girls serve alongside boys. And gays alongside straights. Dogs alongside.... well nothing. No one likes dogs.

They have the whole boot camp thing together, shooting, eating, sleeping and walking in the forest together. No point in ruling someone out as long as they want to what they came here for.

[Ben]

the whole thing is silly because  there are allready general rules about fraternization in the military. If you get caught making out with a co-soldier, you get charged in a military tribunal or whatevs.

The dont ask dont tell policy was a moot rule to begin with. Soldiers shouldnt be touching eachother like that while serving anyhow...gender aside.
The DADT thing was the governments way of throwing in homophobia to the mix. Saying, "yeah, you fairys can serve, but dont talk about your life unless you are pounding mad vagina"


Soldiers in every military (for the most part) branch are generally NOT encouraged to have sex with eachother. This was simply an issue with poor word choice and feeling the need to slap a "NO HOMO" onto things. Most people are selectively forgetting that when I was younger, and Dont ask dont tell was instated, it was seen as a leap forward in gay rights in the USA. It meant that you wouldnt get thrown in Military Jail, or Discharged for being a suspected homosexual.

This whole thing is just media rhetoric. It reeks of needless news. I find it hard to believe you dudes worry about this, with the slow-drip of international tension this wikileaks thing is bringing you....I guess worrying about gay soldiers keeps everyone from realising Hillary Clinton is lucifer's moronic daughter

[SaiKar]

If you're done ranting... homophobia is a very real, very widespread thing in this country, and it's largely irrational. It's not the kind of thing you can say people are being stupid about and argue against. Even if it was put there by society being stupid and incentive, it's still there and t's part of who people are at this point. Pretending it's not there or bashing people for having it isn't going to make anything any better.

[Zerlina]

Lucas alongside.... well nothing. No one likes Lucas.

Fixed.