Pornwall

[Archem]

Zerl, I can relate to a certain degree. While I can't say I understand how it is to be a woman who has to deal with unwanted sexual advances or harassment, I do happen to be a fat, hispanic nerd. Growing up (and even as an adult), these three things were all topics that would affect me deeply, especially when used against me. Kids in school are cruel, and they have no remorse for what they say and do, so I had a very hard time with these three subjects individually. Combined, they're extra-nasty. Now, as time marches forward, the nerd thing has sort of turned into a semi-empowering thing (though the idea of self-proclaimed nerds who are mostly in it for the sudden surge in nerd as a fashion statement pisses me off, mostly because I had to live through the years when it wasn't accepted), and I do a decent job of covering up the hispanic thing (not that I really need to, since racism is starting to thin out). Fat, however, is always a problem. It kills confidence, increases awkwardness, and is still easy to make fun of. I'm not quite the victim I once was (and after conquering my issues with depression, it's not as easy for someone to negatively affect me), I can say that, in a way, I've been there. It's not easy having the world treat you differently for simply being something. It's beyond anyone's control, and it's going to be there for a very long time. I don't want to say that there's any way to deal with it, because there really isn't.

I don't quite know where I'm going with this. I guess I just want to say that I know that feeling, even if I don't know the scenario. I guess I have more to say, but I can't think of a way to say it without sounding preachy or tainting what I'm trying to say, so it's kind of staying put where it is (in my head).

[Dr. Ace]

Prpl:
Rape of men exists as well.

Zerlina:
Fine, act upon your misandry all you want. You're clearly blinded with anger. I'm out.

[greenraven]

This is not about personally attacking you,

Maybe that's how you see it...

This is particular true for you, Greenraven. I don't care what you've been through, NOTHING should EVER give you the free pass to be a dick to others or to pretend that their struggles are lesser than yours.

The way you're being a dick is by exploiting childhood trauma and a "friend" of your's personal experiences to try to win an argument on the fucking internet.
You fuck.

...that seemed awfully personal to me.

Oh and thanks for unfriending me, both of you, real mature.

The atmosphere in this topic is becoming dangerously toxic.

[DragonBlaze]

Can we all just get along, now?

This.

Zerlina, you are completely right. Sadly as guys, it is not easy for us to put ourselves in your shoes because the issues you face are so different than the issue we face.  While I can't speak for everyone, I'm sure most of us have a great deal of respect for you, even if we expressed it poorly. I highly respect you for standing firm to you beliefs.

I like to think of Charas as one of the few places left on the internet that is civilized enough to have these discussions without breaking out into another flame war. There aren't many of us left, so let's stick together.

[greenraven]

You wanna talk about growing up? How about you do some of that yourself. You're an admin, start acting like one, it's your job to reply to people's PMs as long as it's within reason. Was I yelling at you? Did I call you rude names? No. You called me a dick and I politely asked you to explain yourself. It's a little thing called manners, kinda important for an admin to have.

And how often did I sent you them? Let me quickly check... I sent you a total of 3 PMs, one at 5, one at 6, and one at 9. Yes, I was clearly bombarding you with them.

And for the love of god stop thinking that everything with Zerlina's name attached to it is meant to be insulting to her. You're obsessed with this weird notion that everything that's being said her way is offensive. What kind of twisted mentality are you in right now? You're raging hate at an alarming rate that's totally uncalled for what this situation is.

I don't know what bizarre grudge you have against me, but I suggest you get off your morally righteous condescending high horse. I'm being polite so far.

[Zerlina]

This.

Zerlina, you are completely right. Sadly as guys, it is not easy for us to put ourselves in your shoes because the issues you face are so different than the issue we face.  While I can't speak for everyone, I'm sure most of us have a great deal of respect for you, even if we expressed it poorly. I highly respect you for standing firm to you beliefs.

I like to think of Charas as one of the few places left on the internet that is civilized enough to have these discussions without breaking out into another flame war. There aren't many of us left, so let's stick together.

Thanks DB.

And I think for the most part we are still a civilized community (albeit a very small civilization now). And I really do think most of the members here are pretty upstanding and respectful. I think for a couple members it just might be hard to hear that their worldview might not be as PC as they think, which is understandable.

Fine, act upon your misandry all you want. You're clearly blinded with anger. I'm out.

I'm so blinded with anger I can't argue properly. I am so angry, and hysterical and irrational. How could I hope to argue with you when logic eludes me due to my emotions? Wait a second...

Prpl:
Rape of men exists as well.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

Zerlina:
Fine, act upon your misandry all you want. You're clearly blinded with anger. I'm out.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Attacks#Circumstantial

No hate, dislike or distrust of women. Poorly worded, I'd agree. Misogyny? No.

Generalisation, not hate of women.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29

Wikipedia: "Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women."
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny

Since when does looking at someone need consent?

"Invasion of Space
This type of sexual violence is perpetrated by violating a person's sense of safety in a sexual context. This may include: jokes/cat calls, obscene phone calls, leering at a sexual body part, "accidentally" rubbing up against someone, and voyeurism."
source: https://www.altoona.psu.edu/sexualassault/

So men shouldn't go to a straight beach if they don't want women leering at them? Ok, gotcha.

Fallacy, Appeal to Equality: "where an assertion is deemed true or false based on an assumed pretense of equality."
source: http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/b-list-fallacies

And because of the above-
Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_analogy

Rape? Because ugly people get raped too.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

Attention? Ugliness comes with a price, so does prettiness.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9
Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy
Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi

Stop trying to find hate where there is none.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Attacks
Fallacy: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

I see miscommunication, poor wording and phrasing, but not hatred.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy
Fallacy: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity

If you see hatred here, I suggest you reread what's been written another time of day when you've cooled down.

Fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Attacks
Fallacy: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well



Thanks for showing me how emotional and illogical I am, though!

[Archem]

In closing: Can't have a semi-political topic without things taking a turn for the worst. Also in closing: This thread. It's just too far out of control, and I regret not locking it sooner. I noticed it was locked briefly earlier, but I guess whoever made that decision felt the same as me in that it could still be recovered.

LOCKED