What makes an RPGMaker game great?

[Leon_1990]

but...FFVII DOES suck...

It's story wasnt so amazing, it was merely masked under a few interesting characters.

FFVIII and IX both ahd good stories.. (unfortunately, VIII had boring characters...)

[Master Yoda]

.....but i love FFVII *sob sob*

[Dragonium]

Braaawgh!!

I say that cool systems are an added bonus. With them, a good game is even better, and a bad game is still a bad game. Multiply 0 by 2, and you still have 0.

And Draggy is everyone's little bro, so quit bickering.

[DragonBlaze]

Well one aspect won't make a good game, you need a good balence in all the aspects. A CBS won't make a good game, and a good story alone won't make a good game. However a game with a CBS and a good story, will probably be good.

Custom systems adds originallity to the game, playing with the DBS over and over gets dull after a while, and anything new just makes the game more interesting and usually more fun.

[Master Yoda]

Dragonblaze has a valid point

and we love u Draggy

[Red XIII]

Good one for Dragon Blaze, he has a great point. A good game isnīt just a sistem or a story: itīs both things and how they work together what it matters.

[MrMister]

All FF stories are pretty random, just random crap popping up every ten minutes.
Back on topic, fancy systems do make a game fun. I could play a game with no story at all. I'd prefer not to..

You read books to hear stories, and you play games to have fun.

[blaman]

I think that a good story, many unique characters and side-quests. Lots of secrets too. Also, challnging monsters and dungeouns.

[DragonBlaze]

 

You read books to hear stories, and you play games to have fun.

Well said

 

All FF stories are pretty random, just random crap popping up every ten minutes.

It may seem random at first, but it usually all ties together at the end. Its all planned out and connected, theres hardly any  random stuff just thrown in the game for no reason.

[Almeidaboo]

Suikoden = Great Story, great system, original, crappy graphics - awesome
Final Fantasy 10 = Crappy Story, great system, orginal, awesome graphics - crappy game.

Basically, what makes the game, IMO, is the story.

Right now Iīm playing Suikoden Tactics (Rhapsodia) and it has (kinda) bad graphics, but the storyīs so good that it doesnīt matters...

[DragonBlaze]

 

Suikoden = Great Story, great system, original, crappy graphics - awesome
Final Fantasy 10 = Crappy Story, great system, orginal, awesome graphics - crappy game.

Basically, what makes the game, IMO, is the story.

Its more then the story, as you can see, Suikoden had a good system and was original which helped it to be a good game. FFX, had a lot more wrong with it than its story. The main character was a wimp, the story wasn't that original, the gameplay was extremely linear, the dungeons were repedetive.

A good story is only 50% of a game. If all a game has is a good story, its still failing in my book. Too many people think a good story will pull their game through, and then other aspects of their game are lacking and the whole game turns out poorly.

[drenrin2120]

Ok, you all have good points, but the basis of a game IS the storyline, so it would make sense that a good storyline makes a good game. Sure, if a CBS is there, we ALL want to suddenly play it. But even I have to say, the DBS is getting rather annoying. That's why ppl are using different gfx andsuch to try and make it look different. But really, if you have a good story, with a good twist, and interesting characters, the DBS shouldn't even mater.

Especially for idiots like me that can't make a CBS. lol :p

[FFL2and3rocks]

I prefer gameplay above everything else. If the game is fun to play but has a piece-of-crap storyline, I'd still play it.
But for RPG Maker, I'd like to see lots of custom stuff so that all of the RPG Maker games that I've played don't seem the same. I also like games that have things to do after you beat it.  Bonus dungeon, hard-to-reach ultimate equipments, etc.
Puzzles are nice, as well! But as long as there aren't a whole lot of OMG-HOW-THE-HELL-DO-I-SOLVE-THIS !!! puzzles. But those types can be good if there are a few of them; gives a nice sense of accomplishment.

Another thing that I prefer that an RPG has is difficulty. I don't want to kill a boss in two turns. On the other hand, I don't want it to be so tough that I have to go level up for fifteen hours....

[Kilyle]

You read books to hear stories, and you play games to have fun.

I play a game to hear a story.  Period.  Characters and story (and they are intimately linked) are the only things that make a game interesting enough to play from beginning to end.  And sometimes the end dungeon is enough of an endless grind story lull that I give up before the end anyway.

What gets me interested in a game?  Word of mouth is good.  Unusual or intriguing graphics on the back of the box, or on the download page--especially character graphics, but also battle system graphics or scenery.  The description might mention an idea or a world that piques my interest ("Hmm, never thought of that before").

If I somehow get a chance to play the game without any preconceptions, it is the "ooh, what happens next?" factor--and that means STORY.  The Story Factor is absolutely what keeps me going in the game.  A close second is the Han Solo Factor, where I attach to a character (never the main character; this usually happens when the main character bores me, or when a side character seriously outshines him/her).  At this point, the main story becomes filler and I cheerfully fast-forward to the next Han Solo scene, because I want to see what happens to him and how he deals with it.  A major annoyance is those stories in which the interesting side characters do not get enough screen time (what I might call the "Orlando Bloom" factor (ever read FoxTrot?) tho of course this applies mostly to a character and not the actor, altho I couldn't say that hormones weren't involved).

(I must note that, as a writer, I tend to spin wild yarns about characters and stories as I experience them: what could happen, where this all could end, what kind of a character this guy is, how he could prove to be more noble and useful than anyone ever thought he could be, etc.  This has the effect of sustaining me through a bad story long beyond the point at which my ideas become untenable.  Most of my friends and family members do not do anything like this, and give up on stories much faster than I do.)

At any rate, if a game does not have some measure of "ooh, what comes next?" or "ooh, what happens to him?", then it isn't worth playing.  This is, I think, the reaction that you want to provoke in your audience.


I have found a peculiar habit of mine while watching X-Files.  I prefer, by a huge margin, two major types of scenes (or, for that matter, full episodes).  One is Mulder getting beat up, kidnapped, or tortured (physically or emotionally).  The other is Skinner beating people up (or getting beaten up), going the extra mile to help the team even--especially--at grave risk to himself and his position, or experiencing strong emotions (out in the open, where we can see them).  I even rent DVDs just to fast-forward to those scenes and watch them repeatedly.  In many cases, the rest of the episode doesn't interest me at all.

After taking a good look at my reaction, I believe I have worked out what these scenes mean to me.  Most of the time, we get to see only a mask put on for the public to see--all the inner workings of the character are covered up, hidden.  The character is in control.  He is trying to prove that he is competent (according to cultural and societal norms), and more, he is trying to protect himself from the many ways in which he could be hurt if he reveals more of what he thinks and feels.  It takes a long time to get to a level of trust where that mask can be pulled off, and most people, I would venture, never ever get to that point with even one person during their lives.

Well, these moments of torture, of fear, of emotional strain, of being forced to beg, of being out of one's element and in enemy territory, of using methods and tools one is not comfortable with*--these are the moments in which the mask slips off, and we get to see the person inside, fragile and vulnerable and in so many ways just like us (even if the person isn't at all like us on a day-to-day level).  These are the moments at which we can connect with these characters, and more, come to truly understand them.  And it is these moments in which they seem the most human.  To pull an example from another source, what of those few seconds in which Sherlock Holmes thought that Watson had been shot?  The mask peels away and we see a deep love, an emotion that the logic-driven Holmes has never shown before and never (if I know my Holmes) shows again.

(*Skinner is used to accomplishing things with paperwork, moving within The System, following the rules, approaching people on a very formal and impersonal level.  This is what makes his abnormal scenes effective: He's not the type to beat people into submission, and not the type you would expect to try.)

So a major aim of the story is to get to the point where the mask peels off, where we get to see inside the character, catch him in an unguarded moment, connect with him and come to understand him.  This helps whether the character is hero or villain or anywhere in between*.  And if you can reach this point in a believable way, and write the scene well, you will connect with your audience and provide the sort of emotional fulfillment that they've been hoping for.

(*I love the Villain's Majordomo, that is, the second-in-command, in charge of all those little odds and ends that the Villain shouldn't have to worry about--I love his sense of honor and loyalty, his ability to feel for the victims when the Villain doesn't care (and his ability to steer the Villain away from certain high-casualty courses of action), and the fact that quite often he is reachable, redeemable).)


As for non-story issues...I agree with the "push spacebar to win battle" comment.  Altho I gave up on Brave Fencer Musashi (too taxing for my meager controller skillz), I do prefer what I call "action RPGs" to the traditional "command the troops" battle systems.  While I adore such games as Dragon Warrior III and IV, Final Fantasy IV and VI, and Phantasy Star IV, they have annoying repetitive battles, and only the really major battles are of any interest; the rest is mostly grinding.  But in games such as Zelda: A Link to the Past (I think I'm thinking of the right one), Secret of Mana, and Secret of Evermore, I get to actually participate in the battle, play a character, stay out of reach of the bad guy's fire attack, dart in to hit him from behind, place those bombs where I think he's going to walk over them, etc.  Not to say that these systems aren't at times frustrating (as pointed out, I lack controller skillz), and at times I have to repeat battles many many times, but better to be doing something during the battles than just trying to get thru them.  It's something like driving a stickshift vs. driving an automatic, or so my dad says (I don't drive): an automatic just gets you there, but a stickshift makes the journey fun, or some such.

The main thing that makes me still accept games with a "command the troops" battle system is that soloing an action RPG means you can only command one party member at a time; most seem to leave you with only one member, and the others (like Secret of Mana) have tiny parties with woefully bad AI.  I love having several characters over the course of the game, and there's no good way to have large parties with action RPG battle systems.

Eh, I'd mention a few other points, but this is already too long.

[Shady Ultima]

^ Someone thinks this is a university assignment...

In my opinion, the most important parts in a game, are the story line and how it is presented. A great storyline can be presented poorly, and thus the game will be poor. In my opinion, there should be a deep storyline that unravels as the game goes on, but it should come within short intervals, so you're not playing for 6 hours before you get to the next story scene.