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Originally posted by GrandyHeh, you talk as if we're any diferent. When was the last time you decided not to eat that steak or BBQ and give it to the poorer guy that's watching it from the street? I never. And, though it pains me to say so, I'll most likely never do that.
Originally posted by AlmeidabooI`m sure that I`m 100% different from politicians. Otherwise, please, kill me, cause I`m a real plague.
Originally posted by Osmosequote:Originally posted by AlmeidabooI`m sure that I`m 100% different from politicians. Otherwise, please, kill me, cause I`m a real plague.You're an anarchist?Benevolent anarchy interspersed with unified democracy for the win.
Originally posted by plightofthepurebloodSorry dren. I wasnt trying to be codescending.Im trying to imagine what the outcome will be in the other countries of the middle east and the terrorist groups, and extremists.I think Sadam is a safer traget than Osama would have been.I think alot more people would be Shouting "jihad" had it been a more religious figure, as opposed to saddam (who is much more aptly labeld a political criminal than a religious extremist.)
Originally posted by charamanquote:Originally posted by Osmosequote:Originally posted by AlmeidabooI`m sure that I`m 100% different from politicians. Otherwise, please, kill me, cause I`m a real plague.You're an anarchist?Benevolent anarchy interspersed with unified democracy for the win.w00t to the final goal of utopian communism!
Originally posted by Glitch*Edit* I wasn't using God to justify anything, I was saying if you want to bring the whole playing God thing into it, you gotta look at the facts. Don't try feeding me that crap that being young means I should want murderers to go free, that I should want a known committer of GENOCIDE to live. That I should want the man that killed my uncle go free. Yeah, that's right, My uncle is dead because of Saddam Hussein. Almei, I realize that you are passionate about not liking Bush, but you don't live in America, you really haven't experienced him first hand. I realize he isn't the best president ever, and he has made some huge mistakes. But calling him a murderer on Saddam's level is a bit uneducated. Yes, Bush did push for the war. No, Bush is not responsible for the war by himself. Yes, some unethical treatment of prisoners has occured. No, Bush did not sit down and order those prisoners to be tortured, that was the order of the commanding officer in that area. Bush put the idea of war up to congress, and in a bipartisan (meaning both republican and democratic senators/reps) movement they decided to pass the declaration of war. Thus sending america to war. Basically, by calling Bush a murderer because of the war, you are calling every senator that voted for the war, and every house rep that voted for it, a murderer. Which means you are calling every voter that voted for them murderers. Do you think all of America is on Saddam's level?Saddam on the other hand, had a totalitarian rule on his country, he decided one day he was going to go murder a butt load of kuwait citizens. He single handedly ordered a genocide. No senate, no house, no votes, his word only. Get your facts straight before you rant. And mid. I realize that it costs more money to kill someone (thanks to the appeals process) than it does to keep them alive. My problem isn't with how much money, it's what my money is being spent on. I don't like the thought that my tax payer money (and yes, I do pay taxes) is supporting the life of a murder. And that is really stupid saying that just because we support the death penalty means we don't care who dies. Things aren't perfect yet, we do still make mistakes, and yes, I feel bad every time someone unjustly dies. But you have to admit we make far less mistakes now than we did. At least now we actually have fair trials, dna evidence, appeals courts, etc...You say eye for an eye and the world goes blind, but what happens when the whole world turns the other cheek?And Plight, I don't know if you realize it or not, but that is the biggest load of uneducated crap I've ever seen towards the bottom there. Do me a favor and leave canda, go to college in America, take political science classes, and research this on your own before you go off spouting what you've heard your parents say for years... And to all the foreign people, please stop blindly assuming everything your government and media tells you is true, you all don't have the slightest idea how American government works, it's alot more simple than the President handing down an order.
Originally posted by GlitchAnd Plight, I don't know if you realize it or not, but that is the biggest load of uneducated crap I've ever seen towards the bottom there. Do me a favor and leave canda, go to college in America, take political science classes, and research this on your own before you go off spouting what you've heard your parents say for years...
Originally posted by plightofthepurebloodI have trouble even trying to relate objectivly to a government that puts secret concentration camps up in My own Country, and denys their existance. I have trouble with an government that imposes global order with its collection of "The biggest supply of NUkes at G.Dubyas Nulcear arms lot!". I have trouble with Governments that fund radical terrorist groups until the groups dont agree with their policies any more.
From WikipediaRobin Cook, former leader of the British House of Commons and Foreign Secretary from 1997-2001, wrote in The Guardian on Friday, July 8, 2005, Osama bin Laden Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.[22] Osama bin LadenHowever, Peter Bergen, a CNN journalist and adjunct professor who is known for conducting the first television interview with Osama bin Laden in 1997, refuted Cook's notion, stating on August 15, 2006, the following: Osama bin Laden The story about bin Laden and the CIA -- that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden -- is simply a folk myth. There's no evidence of this. In fact, there are very few things that bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and the U.S. government agree on. They all agree that they didn't have a relationship in the 1980s. And they wouldn't have needed to. Bin Laden had his own money, he was anti-American and he was operating secretly and independently.The real story here is the CIA didn't really have a clue about who this guy was until 1996 when they set up a unit to really start tracking him.[23] Osama bin LadenIt is more likely that the CIA was concerned and watching Osama bin Laden at least by early 1995 due to the discovery of the Oplan Bojinka plot which in part involved a suicide airplane attack on CIA Headquarters.
From WikipediaIn 1957, at age 20, Saddam joined the revolutionary pan-Arab Ba'ath Party, of which his uncle was a supporter.Saddam was shot in the leg, but escaped to Tikrit with the help of CIA and Egyptian intelligence agents. Saddam then crossed into Syria and was transferred to Beirut for a brief CIA training course. From there he moved to Cairo where he made frequent visits to the American embassy. During this time the CIA placed him in a upper-class apartment observed by CIA and Egyptian operatives. (UPI 'analysis' article)In 1958, a year after Saddam had joined the Ba'ath party, army officers led by General Abdul Karim Qassim overthrew Faisal II of Iraq. The Ba'athists opposed the new government, and in 1959, Saddam was involved in the attempted United States-backed plot to assassinate Qassim.[12]Concerned about Qassim's growing ties to Communists, the CIA gave assistance to the Ba'ath Party and other regime opponents.[6] Army officers with ties to the Ba'ath Party overthrew Qassim in a coup in 1963. Ba'athist leaders were appointed to the cabinet and Abdul Salam Arif became president. Arif dismissed and arrested the Ba'athist leaders later that year. Saddam returned to Iraq, but was imprisoned in 1964. He escaped prison in 1967 and quickly became a leading member of the party. In 1968, Saddam participated in a bloodless coup led by Ahmad Hassan al-Bakr that overthrew Abdul Rahman Arif. al-Bakr was named president and Saddam was named his deputy. Saddam soon became the regime's strongman. According to biographers, Saddam never forgot the tensions within the first Ba'athist government, which informed his measures to promote Ba'ath party unity as well as his ruthless resolve to maintain power and programs to ensure social stability.Soon after becoming deputy to the president, Saddam demanded and received the rank of four-star general despite his lack of military training.[7]In 1976, Saddam rose to the position of general in the Iraqi armed forces, and rapidly became the strongman of the government. At the time Saddam was considered an enemy of Communism and radical Islamism. Saddam was integral to U.S. policy in the region, a policy which sought to weaken the influence of Iran and the Soviet Union.After Khomeini gained power, skirmishes between Iraq and revolutionary Iran occurred for ten months over the sovereignty of the disputed Arvandrud/Shatt al-Arab waterway, which divides the two countries. During this period, Saddam Hussein continually maintained that it was in Iraq's interest not to engage with Iran, and that it was in the interests of both nations to maintain peaceful relations. However, in a private meeting with Salah Omar Al-Ali, Iraq's permanent ambassador to the United Nations, he revealed that he intended to invade and occupy a large part of Iran within months. Iraq invaded Iran by attacking Mehrabad Airport of Tehran and entering the oil-rich Iranian land of Khuzestan, which also has a sizeable Arab minority, on September 22, 1980 and declared it a new province of Iraq. The United Nations and the United States supported him with artillery and medical supplies during this time.On March 16, 1988, the Kurdish town of Halabja was attacked with a mix of mustard gas and nerve agents, killing 5,000 civilians, and maiming, disfiguring, or seriously debilitating 10,000 more. (see Halabja poison gas attack) [18]. The attack occurred in conjunction with the 1988 al-Anfal campaign designed to reassert central control of the mostly Kurdish population of areas of northern Iraq and defeat the Kurdish peshmerga rebel forces. The United States now maintains that Saddam ordered the attack to terrorize the Kurdish population in northern Iraq ([19]), but Saddam's regime claimed at the time that Iran was responsible for the attack[11] and the US supported the claim until the early 1990s.The Kuwaiti monarchy further angered Saddam by allegedly slant drilling oil out of wells that Iraq considered to be within its disputed border with Kuwait. Given that at the time Iraq was not regarded as a pariah state, Saddam was able to complain about the alleged slant drilling to the U.S. State Department. Although this had continued for years, Saddam now needed oil money to stem a looming economic crisis. Saddam still had an experienced and well-equipped army, which he used to influence regional affairs. He later ordered troops to the Iraq-Kuwait border.As Iraq-Kuwait relations rapidly deteriorated, Saddam was receiving conflicting information about how the U.S. would respond to the prospects of an invasion. For one, Washington had been taking measures to cultivate a constructive relationship with Iraq for roughly a decade. [citation needed] The U.S. also sent billions of dollars to Saddam to keep him from forming a strong alliance with the Soviets. [12]U.S. ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie met with Saddam in an emergency meeting on July 25, 1990, where the Iraqi leader stated his intention to continue talks. U.S. officials attempted to maintain a conciliatory line with Iraq, indicating that while George H. W. Bush and James Baker did not want force used, they would not take any position on the Iraq-Kuwait boundary dispute and did not want to become involved. The transcript, however, does not show any explicit statement of approval of, acceptance of, or foreknowledge of the invasion. Later, Iraq and Kuwait then met for a final negotiation session, which failed. Saddam then sent his troops into Kuwait.Detroit awarded Saddam Hussein a key to the city in 1980, because of contributions to several local Detroit Catholic Churches, in particular a $170,000 donation to a church that was in heavy debt [14][15].
