The RPG Thread

[Prpl_Mage]

Originally posted by Darrellito
*Walks out on a limb to talk about something other than Final Fantasy*


EarthBound

It's hard to say about Earthbound, except that it's an oddly good game, and I do mean oddly... this game is fairly strange... unlike a lot of rpgs, it's based in modern day... you get unusual battle events (like for example, if you don't call your mother or visit home that often, your character may choose to not fight because he's homesick!)

 As well as various other strange features, like a town where everything is backwards, enemies such as the famous melting clock, and even the 'new age retro hippie'!

Otherwise, this game has features not seen in other rpgs, like the ability to opt out of battles that are below you, and to resist kills by escaping or beating the battle before your life depletes completely... in essence you could be struck with several blows that would each take more than your life span, but if the enemy has one hit left and you finish him off, you'll be fine.

Other than that, this game has one of the wierdest storylines I've ever played.

Earthbound... I played the one on SNES... Big misstake. Had odd and bizare dreams for the following weeks.

A game that is filled with parody and paronoia in the same time... That's Earthbound alright... It's cute and yet dissgusting...
In other words: It's so goddamned fucked that the gods should ban it...
It is darker than most Final fantasy and yet got this cute nintendo style... How could Anyone let this game reach the stores? No wonder it never came out outside Japan...

The beginning? Ufo and starmen... Then your friend kills the guy and all klind of crazy **** happens... The local thugs got this huge killer machine with knives... You beat the crap out of kids with baseball bats... You even have to go to a town where they have been possesed by a statue and created a cult that makes everything blue... And Hippies... O yes, there are hippies... And Hobbo's... And buissniesmen... You go to a store and the light goes out... When the light comes back everyone is gone... And there are these boxes lurking around... And you can't get anywhere and there are aliens lurking behind every corner...
And that gross labb under stoneheige where the ailiens created a clone of the proffessor in order to kidnapp people and do experiements at them... The swamp is fucked and the part where you get the black belt kid and have to sacrifice your hearing, vision, smell, feeling and mind just to pass a test... That was so awful for a young kid to see when I usually just played Super smash and super mario...  And the dungeons are so fucked... And the saturn village is fucked... the bosses are fucked... This game is fucked! I wish I never played it when I was 11...

[Dragonium]

Would anyone who has access to hallucinogenic drugs and a SNES emulator be prepared to play Earthbound while on LSD and tell us what it's like? I would be willing to pay money just for that bit of knowledge.

Hell the game might even make more sense that way.

[Ganocide_of_a_Kingdom]

The problem with Final Fantasy VIII, is that it was one of the easiest FF's.

 Once you get the Junction system, it's a breeze. Draw like a mad man >>> Junction the magic to stats+Trigger >>>Junction GF's >>> You're God. If you never use the magic Junctioned to the stats that count the most (in my opinion: HP, STR, DEF, SPD), then you can have outstanding might early in the game, too early. I'm not exaggerating when saying that to this day, I still haven't seen much of FFVIII's magic animations . That's the only thing I did not like about that system. By the time you get to Ultimecia, she's a freaking joke, not to mention if you have Holy Wars and such, even if a character is weak, if you have got Moomba, anyone can make 9999DMG, even to Ultimecia/Griever, use Holy War >>>Use Moomba like crazy with weak a$$ character>>>9999DMG. Juntion system is a great idea, but the linear pace and lack of combos and dependability, makes it not good enough and because of that it falls short when compared to Materia.

Square should have executed the Junction System in a different, more elaborated manner.

But FFVIII it's not the only FF that in my view, it has a major f*** up in the manner of saying "I can be mighty too early in the game". FFIX also has this flaw and worse then FFVIII. Much worse. If you threw a guess at what I am hinting at and said "Grand Dragons!", you hit the jackpot.
Getting to level 75-80 on the first disk, it's something I don't really find fun. Where's the challenge when you are 25-20 Levels away from the maximum allowed? Nowhere, the only thing that you really have left to make a challenge out of your extremely-over powered charaters, is that you have the skills to learn, and even that it's not much of a challenge, all you need to fight is fight, fight fight for the AP.
While the skill learning system on FFIX is, IMO, pretty fun, the fact that you are allowed to be so powerful that early in the game, seems just not right. Sure, it's yer decision if you want do it or not, but that doesn't change the fact that the game is easy and has virtually no challenge unless you make it a challenge yerself.
Also, Chocobo hot 'n' cold, it's just one of the best sidequest/mini games, it's just awesome, but then, you have the ridiculous Excalibur 2 sidequest...You think "Gosh, what kind of bonuses does that sword have? It must be pretty cool" and yeah, I did it, I got to memoria in under 12 hours, got the sword, and to my surprise, it sucks. It was a total waste of time (or better said, effort). It has nothing especial about it, you can learn a skills from it and  it's not even the most powerful sword in the game, Save the Queen has 122 attack power (considering you use the Attack command, otherwise it's around 25) while Excalibur 2 has only 108 (I believe) and not even much more powerful than Ragnarok with 87 attack.
I really don't know what square was thinking, but the sure weren't thinking about the word, rewarded.

Anyway, I'm not bashing on these two great games at all, they do have other qualities that make them the good games they are, but truth is truth and there's no point in hiding it.

[Roland_Deschain2]

Aren't most JRPGs mind-numbingly easy? Combat is so simple and repetitive! All you do is hit X and move a little arrow up and down on a menu!

[Ganocide_of_a_Kingdom]

No, not all JRPG's are like that. Only the money-seeking-only ones.

[Dragonium]

In my opinion the Junction system was perfectly well balanced out so you couldn't be overpowered early on. For one thing, not all your GFs have the Junction abilities which let you Junction to the stats you need, so you actually have to play on in order to use the system properly. And for another thing, it's not easy to get the good magic you need for Junctioning. It only becomes easy to get Firaga and other such Level 3 magic in late Disc 2/early Disc 3, and even then it's not the best magic you can get. It's designed pretty well to make you need to think about what you're doing; it's not just a case of "put good stuffs on stats, win game".

I'm just sayin'.

[aboutasoandthis]

Originally posted by Roland_Deschain2
Aren't most JRPGs mind-numbingly easy? Combat is so simple and repetitive! All you do is hit X and move a little arrow up and down on a menu!

In western RPGs you either
A: Point and Click
B: Move around in a first-person view and press one button to swing a little sword.

Do NOT talk about us.

I didn't hate the Junction system so much as having the monsters level up with you. By this logic, I didn't level up at all. My characters were at level 10 by the time I got to Ultimecia's castle. There was that one attack though by Griever that automatically dealt 3000+ damage before he dies. That REALLY pissed me off. I had to spend a few days leveling up just to get my HP high enough. Other than that the game was pretty easy.

Come to think of it, all the FFs were easy. The only one I thought was hard was FF4. With no customization Jesus that game was hard...

[coasterkrazy]

Simple answer for me:

Star Ocean 2! It's probably just because a couple of friends and I were super-addicted to it for a couple years a very long time ago.

[Ganocide_of_a_Kingdom]

Originally posted by Dragonium
In my opinion the Junction system was perfectly well balanced out so you couldn't be overpowered early on. For one thing, not all your GFs have the Junction abilities which let you Junction to the stats you need, so you actually have to play on in order to use the system properly. And for another thing, it's not easy to get the good magic you need for Junctioning. It only becomes easy to get Firaga and other such Level 3 magic in late Disc 2/early Disc 3, and even then it's not the best magic you can get. It's designed pretty well to make you need to think about what you're doing; it's not just a case of "put good stuffs on stats, win game".

I'm just sayin'.

Yeah, I believe I expressed myself the wrong way about what I wa trying to say.
I didn't mean all the strong would be available to you so early, how ever some is. And my Squall was pretty strong early in the game, if you draw lots of magic and junction 100 of the stronger magics available, you are powerful, very powerful and early. But I guess not everyone is patient enough to do that. So in that sense, then there could be a little more challenge. It's not nearly as bad as leveling up to Lv 75 on the first disc though. >>

[Roland_Deschain2]

Originally posted by Ganocide_of_a_Kingdom
No, not all JRPG's are like that. Only the money-seeking-only ones.

Hence the "most." FF12 had a different battle system, but am I the only one who hought it was too much like KOTOR?

Originally posted by Aboutasoandthis
In western RPGs you either
A: Point and Click
B: Move around in a first-person view and press one button to swing a little sword.

Do NOT talk about us.

I'm just saying, I'd rather have a more customizable character and a story that doesn't rip off from FF in some way or another. Besides, in most JRPGs, like I said, the battle system is totally unrealistic, compared to, say, Oblivion, where the battles are real-time?

[Almeidaboo]

KOTOR is great, but nothing like FF12.

SO2 was aewsome...SO3's storyline sucked.

Am I the only one that played Suikoden here (I know Grandy did but...)?

[Prpl_Mage]

Originally posted by Roland_Deschain2
I'm just saying, I'd rather have a more customizable character and a story that doesn't rip off from FF in some way or another. Besides, in most JRPGs, like I said, the battle system is totally unrealistic, compared to, say, Oblivion, where the battles are real-time?

Yeah... And that is soooo much fun is it? You play FPS if you want a realistic game. Those games with "realtime battle" such as the elder scrolls& dark mesiah get's boring after a while... There is no challange after you've passed half the game.

That's why JRPG are better since you can't really kill the foe and his band before they reach you... There actually is a battle in those games and not just lame "1hit-ko spells".(Unless you go kill grand dragons/make your GF über.)

Devil May cry made it intresting though with a 3rd person view and stylish moves that does quite small damage. It makes the battle last longer.

Just saying

And I hate FFXII, worst final fantasy ever... It was worse than FFX-2(it actually had a quite fun battel system with the ordinary+upgrades.) and the characters where lame... I stick with the fact that anyone could've gotten together with anyone in the end... That's how bad the story and character development was.

[Dragonium]

I guess you might be right about it. It really all depends on how patient you are, and whether you have the willpower to spend hours upon hours drawing magic and not progressing with the game. I guess that could really be said about any RPG though; if you can stick out the hundreds of hours you spend levelling up against weak monsters, you can become uber-powerful and never need to spend time training ever again.

[Ganocide_of_a_Kingdom]

Originally posted by Roland_Deschain2

Originally posted by Ganocide_of_a_Kingdom
No, not all JRPG's are like that. Only the money-seeking-only ones.

Hence the "most." FF12 had a different battle system, but am I the only one who hought it was too much like KOTOR?[/B]

There's nothing alike about KOTOR and FFXII.

Originally posted by Roland_Deschain2

I'm just saying, I'd rather have a more customizable character and a story that doesn't rip off from FF in some way or another. Besides, in most JRPGs, like I said, the battle system is totally unrealistic, compared to, say, Oblivion, where the battles are real-time?

JRPGs and the kind of RPG's you talk about both have their advantages and disadvantages.

JRPGs, have less Character customization than RPGs. Most JRPGs do not show when you change yer armor, shoes, accessories, etc. they always have the  same clothes. However, most of'em do show yer weapons.

RPGs have a realtime battle system, which is better than random encounters for MOST people. But in turn, the battle system is rather simplistic and lacks the depth and strategy that most JRPGs have, it also gets tiring after a while, since it's always the same. A lot of JRPGs have random encounters, but that seems like a trend that is starting to die these days. There are lots of JRPGs with active battle systems and not turn based. for a few examples: "Tales of" series never had turn based battle systems, however most of them have random encounters. The "Mana" series, never had random encounters and it has a real-time battle system. As you said FFXII also a real-time battle system. Rogue Galaxy, has random encounters, but a real-time battle system. Those are some examples of non-realtime battle systems on JRPGS. Also, battle systems and the way you encounter enemies chnage from JRPG to JRPG and I find that a good thing instead of the monotony of RPG that always have the same battle system and the same of way encountering enemies. JRPGs real-time battle systems never get as tiring as RPG real-time does, they are also not nearly as monotonous.

RPGs, usually have more realistic graphics the JRPGs. That could be considered a plus for RPGs but it also depends on the person.

Storywise, JRPGs have waaaaay more elaborated storylines than RPGs. Storylines in RPGs are rather cliche and simple, with little left to the mind to wonder and intricate you, while a lot of JRPGs, poses these missing qualities in the RPGs storylines.

Charaters. JRPGs characters have lots of personalities, while RPG characters's personalities are null. This usually because of RPGs always intend to make YOU the main character, while JRPGs most of the time do not do this. Thus, making RPGs a better example of what "Role play" means than most JRPGs (there are exceptions, though).

Party. Well, RPGs usually leave you with the main character alone to control. This, can become extremely tiring and monotonous. JRPGs, they have quite a bit of characters and even so, some JRPGs, have LOTS of them, take for example the Suikoden series and Chrono Cross. Obviously, this breaks the monotony of always having the same character and only main character during the whole game. JRPGs excel at this even more, when yer main character does not talk at all and makes you feel more into the game like RPG do by making the main character talk only when you want him to. JRPGs are also better at this since you can change the main character for any other in yer party.

Character development. Sometimes, RPGs character development is  deeper on RPGs, but that's only from a single-character point of view, but if you think about it, developing a horde of characters to their max, is notshallow task and this is why JRPGs are more in depth the RPGs and sometimes even a single character development in a JRPG is more in depth than on a RPG.

Originally posted by Dragonium
I guess you might be right about it. It really all depends on how patient you are, and whether you have the willpower to spend hours upon hours drawing magic and not progressing with the game. I guess that could really be said about any RPG though; if you can stick out the hundreds of hours you spend levelling up against weak monsters, you can become uber-powerful and never need to spend time training ever again.

That is totally agreeable, indeed. I also believe that depending on the difficulty of the character development, this can be possible on some, since a lot RPGs start giving you less and less EXP as you level up and yet others, level up the monsters as you level up too. FFVIII does this, but this is countered by the Junction system in turn.

[Almeidaboo]

You lose prpl_mage. FF 12 had the coolest secondary character which was Balthier. And I loved the battle system and the skill system too. I disliked the fact the the summons were absolutely useless.