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Author Topic: Discussion of Playing Ability  (Read 6733 times)

Offline Crazetex

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Discussion of Playing Ability
« on: September 23, 2009, 03:42:52 PM »
http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=36566

This site forum has the most activity in response to the Visions & Voices overhaul - a high-quality game by the already slacking RM* standards - than other forums. Something Awful is second, followed by Newgrounds. TIG is on par with the entire RM* community's response.

That's right. After five days of release and almost 500 downloads at the time of this topic's creation, the RM* community (outside of the RMN IRC channel, which is an inner circle and is NOT fresh V&V meat) has made a reaction of... two posts, internet-wide.

Two posts.

Discuss.

MODIFY: Okay, some clarification due to other topics. This is not about V&V. I'm only using it as an example. Other games suffer from this - look at kentona in this topic: http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/4918/?post=99041#post99041 . He's thinks it's amazing if people think about maybe downloading Hero's Realm if they are in a good mood on a full moon.

Why do RM* communities bother having feedback forums if all they almost completely consist of developers that don't play other games?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 05:41:45 PM by Crazetex »
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Offline SaiKar

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2009, 08:13:39 PM »
Quote from: Crazetex on September 23, 2009, 03:42:52 PM
Why do RM* communities bother having feedback forums if all they almost completely consist of developers that don't play other games?

Cruel and unusual double standard. We're game designers, not necessarily game players. Every now and then a great-looking game catches my eye, but too many amateur games are annoying to the point of almost being unplayable. One of the biggest offenders is difficulty - amateur games are usually EXTREMELY hard, either by very bad playtesting or because the game designer himself, who knows every little tip and trick for being good at their own game, wants to make something that challenges himself and, consequently, creates challenges that the average, casual gamer doesn't want to deal with. I can't think of a single game (and this includes both the Alpha Force and Carpe Diem, my two favorite Charas games) where I didn't run into some completely impossible enemy that killed me 3 or 4 times before I hacked into the code and reduced it to 1 HP. Pathetically, in the Capre Diem fight, I STILL LOST THIS FIGHT even though the enemy was at 1 HP simply through really shitty bad luck that should have been ironed out long before being released to the public.

I would have given up on RPGMaker programming a long time ago if my own project of close to ten years, Control of Destiny, didn't have a small fanbase for it outside of the community. As it is, I don't even have a thread here on Charas for it anymore despite working on it for hours every day simply because I know that nobody here will actually play it.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2009, 08:15:37 PM by SaiKar »
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Offline Felix-0

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 08:55:50 PM »
Quote from: SaiKar on September 23, 2009, 08:13:39 PM
Cruel and unusual double standard. We're game designers, not necessarily game players. Every now and then a great-looking game catches my eye, but too many amateur games are annoying to the point of almost being unplayable. One of the biggest offenders is difficulty - amateur games are usually EXTREMELY hard, either by very bad playtesting or because the game designer himself, who knows every little tip and trick for being good at their own game, wants to make something that challenges himself and, consequently, creates challenges that the average, casual gamer doesn't want to deal with. I can't think of a single game (and this includes both the Alpha Force and Carpe Diem, my two favorite Charas games) where I didn't run into some completely impossible enemy that killed me 3 or 4 times before I hacked into the code and reduced it to 1 HP. Pathetically, in the Capre Diem fight, I STILL LOST THIS FIGHT even though the enemy was at 1 HP simply through really shitty bad luck that should have been ironed out long before being released to the public.

I would have given up on RPGMaker programming a long time ago if my own project of close to ten years, Control of Destiny, didn't have a small fanbase for it outside of the community. As it is, I don't even have a thread here on Charas for it anymore despite working on it for hours every day simply because I know that nobody here will actually play it.

My heart just bled, I play RPGmaker made games all the time, I'm just too lazy to give a review. Also, to counteract the effects of over challenging myself. I have OTHER's Test the bosses and enemies and puzzles and give me a detail on the difficultly level.
I'm still waiting for Fishersons game, and Muraiko's game. There are a few actual (RPG) RPg maker games that interest me, like the alpha force, and some other game I can never remember the name of. the only RPG game I fully finished though was Death Proclaimed.
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Offline Muraiko

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 09:50:02 PM »
I get what Saikar is saying, and would have to agree. There probably are some really good games out there, but just becasue of all the ameture ones, not many people really get to see them.

I just think you got to keep faith, as in, after you release a demo, keep up with the updates. There probably are some fans out there who would like it, but they just didn't see your project yet.

Quote from: Felix-0 on September 23, 2009, 08:55:50 PM
I'm still waiting for Fishersons game, and Muraiko's game.

Wow, really? That just made my day. Here I was thinking that everyone forgot and didn't care about me anymore.
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Offline Hell Angel

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 02:51:16 AM »
A large portion of this forum's members, though, are people who don't make games any more. And the few who do have already been well explained by SaiKar. They either don't visit these parts of the forum anymore or are so unimpressed by whatever progress you've shown that they simply don't care after their first post. Pretty much everyone on this forum who pays any attention to and posts in game threads has posted in yours, though.

Oh and Muraiko. I too loved your game back when the thread was still alive. I'd have to say that if an update came around, I'd be pretty stoked.
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Offline fruckert

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 02:59:28 AM »
I get lazy.
...that's pretty much my excuse.
Oh, and I don't really play RM games that much.
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Offline Bluhman

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 04:18:57 AM »
Quote from: SaiKar on September 23, 2009, 08:13:39 PM
Cruel and unusual double standard. We're game designers, not necessarily game players. Every now and then a great-looking game catches my eye, but too many amateur games are annoying to the point of almost being unplayable. One of the biggest offenders is difficulty - amateur games are usually EXTREMELY hard, either by very bad playtesting or because the game designer himself, who knows every little tip and trick for being good at their own game, wants to make something that challenges himself and, consequently, creates challenges that the average, casual gamer doesn't want to deal with. I can't think of a single game (and this includes both the Alpha Force and Carpe Diem, my two favorite Charas games) where I didn't run into some completely impossible enemy that killed me 3 or 4 times before I hacked into the code and reduced it to 1 HP. Pathetically, in the Capre Diem fight, I STILL LOST THIS FIGHT even though the enemy was at 1 HP simply through really shitty bad luck that should have been ironed out long before being released to the public.

I would have given up on RPGMaker programming a long time ago if my own project of close to ten years, Control of Destiny, didn't have a small fanbase for it outside of the community. As it is, I don't even have a thread here on Charas for it anymore despite working on it for hours every day simply because I know that nobody here will actually play it.

Really? What boss was it in Carpe Diem that you lost to with the one HP thing? XD

And yeah, I might be guilty of the difficulty thing. Even I sometimes fail to beat my own bosses. :P
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Offline SaiKar

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 05:08:19 AM »
Quote from: Bluhman on September 24, 2009, 04:18:57 AM
Really? What boss was it in Carpe Diem that you lost to with the one HP thing? XD
It was one of the bosses you fight as the guy with the crazy pinwheel blade thing and the funky hair. The boss did this berserk + blind status effect move on me that made my character attack uncontrollably with like a 0% hit rate. He would always do it to me at least once so I could never win the battle since I'd lose control of my character and just get beat down. On the time I lost when he had 1 HP, he did it to me as his very first move before I could even act and I just watched my hero die a slow and painful death. It was complete BS. I have no idea how it's beatable with a condition like that and how ANYONE has gotten past him ever, unless there's armor or something that prevents the status, but I could never find anything like that.


Quote
And yeah, I might be guilty of the difficulty thing. Even I sometimes fail to beat my own bosses. :P
I actually did fine in Alpha Force until I got to the part where Bluhman has to fight the boss in that apartment. I didn't have nearly any healing items left over from the tower climb as Akira and so the boss just kind of killed me before I killed him. Wasn't expecting to be thrown into another fight without being able to buy more items, I guess.


I should make a list of common game play balancing mistakes amateurs are prone to making. Actually, that sounds like fun. Could open it to suggestions from the outside too.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 05:10:45 AM by SaiKar »
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Offline Bluhman

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 05:21:45 AM »
Quote from: SaiKar on September 24, 2009, 05:08:19 AM
It was one of the bosses you fight as the guy with the crazy pinwheel blade thing and the funky hair. The boss did this berserk + blind status effect move on me that made my character attack uncontrollably with like a 0% hit rate. He would always do it to me at least once so I could never win the battle since I'd lose control of my character and just get beat down. On the time I lost when he had 1 HP, he did it to me as his very first move before I could even act and I just watched my hero die a slow and painful death. It was complete BS. I have no idea how it's beatable with a condition like that and how ANYONE has gotten past him ever, unless there's armor or something that prevents the status, but I could never find anything like that.

Oh my god, I think It's the exact boss I got stuck on.[spoiler]you, like, fight him/her in a basement or something after chasing him down, right?[/spoiler]
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Offline SaiKar

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2009, 10:41:52 AM »
Yes
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Offline Prpl_Mage

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 06:18:45 AM »
I remember playing one of Bluhman's old game with this guy with a quarterstaff and the first party member tried to steal a horse or something.(My bad if it isn't your game).

I went through the game only to realize that you couldn't backtrack. And since you couldn't backtrack - You couldn't get yourself some healing items. I remember fighting some general in a practise room and I had like 15% health when I entered battle.

Afterwards you get telported to this cave and the boss there killed me.
 It was a shame.
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Oh my god, this was ...10 years ago...

Offline Felix-0

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 10:08:19 AM »
Quote from: Prpl_Mage on September 25, 2009, 06:18:45 AM
I remember playing one of Bluhman's old game with this guy with a quarterstaff and the first party member tried to steal a horse or something.(My bad if it isn't your game).

I went through the game only to realize that you couldn't backtrack. And since you couldn't backtrack - You couldn't get yourself some healing items. I remember fighting some general in a practise room and I had like 15% health when I entered battle.

Afterwards you get telported to this cave and the boss there killed me.
 It was a shame.

Muraiko's game character has a quarter staff
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Offline Muraiko

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 01:52:09 AM »
The game Prpl's talking about isn't mine...

I think he's talking about "Wolf's Gaze". Not sure if that's really the one though... never had a chance to play it.
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Offline Bluhman

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 04:07:18 AM »
Quote from: Muraiko on September 26, 2009, 01:52:09 AM
The game Prpl's talking about isn't mine...

I think he's talking about "Wolf's Gaze". Not sure if that's really the one though... never had a chance to play it.

Nope, yer right. That game had zero backtracking.
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Offline Prpl_Mage

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Re: Discussion of Playing Ability
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2009, 07:23:07 AM »
Quote from: Muraiko on September 26, 2009, 01:52:09 AM
The game Prpl's talking about isn't mine...

I think he's talking about "Wolf's Gaze". Not sure if that's really the one though... never had a chance to play it.

Yepp. That's the one.
Great game. But I should've stocked up on healing items. My cheapness became my doom.
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