Another Chain Game? (Complete)

[Prpl_Mage]

Also, shameless marketing strategy. Could you guys upvote the artwork (screenshots) I uploaded on Steam? At least the awesome title screen,

Also I can upvote them, got a link?

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1278221957
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1274138421
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1274138107
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1274130790

So far only Momeka liked things. I mean seriously our cool stuff needs to reach the top of the page 'cuz right now this RTP cliffside is the most upvoted piece.

[Donut]

Ok, so I've finished my round of bugfix (yay insomnia). I just need to change two pictures (one is a mispell of "Mystery" in the title screen, the other my own Chapter screen), and I'll be good to go. Fixed a few spelling mistakes when I found them.

How do you guys plan the balancing of battles? Do you do it once at the end or does everyone do it on his/her own chapter?

[Prpl_Mage]

How do you guys plan the balancing of battles? Do you do it once at the end or does everyone do it on his/her own chapter?

I image the best result to be if one person does it.

Was there anything particular that crossed your mind? Might be good to know. Just send the game to Moose and Momeka when you are done.

[Donut]

I was just wondering, because for what I remember, Momeka's chapter battles were less well balanced the first time I played, but Fish's are still highly undoable without some very serious grinding (which I think is not so good for one of the first chapters, and considering the length of the game - I ended up just skipping most of them in his chapter). So it seemed like Momeka balanced his chapter but Fish didn't do it for his, so I was confused.

I don't know how you guys usually balance your game. When I do battles, I consider 3 types of monster: weak mob, medium mobs, bosses/special mobs. Weak mobs should take 1 to 2 turns maximum (for the entire party, so if your party is made of only one character then it's equivalent to 2 strikes (3 if the monster is really weak and doesn't deal much damage), 4 if you have 2 characters in your team, etc...). Medium mobs, because they're tougher should take 1-2 extra turns to kill. As for bosses/special mobs, I try, contrary to the others, to make the player use more tactic (so use more the elements, conditions, etc), to make it so that the player has to try different approaches than just bashing the regular attack (of course I apply it as well to the other mobs, but the difference in damages will be less pronounced).

That is well made, IMO, now in Momeka's chapter:  most of the mobs we meet take about 2 turns to defeat, sometimes 3, and they don't deal as much damages as they used to in the first version I played, and sometimes you can be poisoned or paralysed.
In Fish's chapter, I often face 4 to 6 mobs, all able within a turn or two to put in sleep/pork/nomed/paralyse my entire party with almost 100% success rate (outchie). So I die in less than 2 battles. And there are an AWFUL lot of battles in Fish's chapter, which is also why I did not put any in my chapter. Since the messages do not pause the rest of the game, the bad guys have time to gather around you and if you don't escape one battle you're basically dead. Maybe I'm just bad at the game or I just don't have any luck and this concerns only me in this case xD

Aside from that, I thought the game overall was great.

[Prpl_Mage]

I was just wondering, because for what I remember, Momeka's chapter battles were less well balanced the first time I played, but Fish's are still highly undoable without some very serious grinding (which I think is not so good for one of the first chapters, and considering the length of the game - I ended up just skipping most of them in his chapter). So it seemed like Momeka balanced his chapter but Fish didn't do it for his, so I was confused.

I don't know how you guys usually balance your game. When I do battles, I consider 3 types of monster: weak mob, medium mobs, bosses/special mobs. Weak mobs should take 1 to 2 turns maximum (for the entire party, so if your party is made of only one character then it's equivalent to 2 strikes (3 if the monster is really weak and doesn't deal much damage), 4 if you have 2 characters in your team, etc...). Medium mobs, because they're tougher should take 1-2 extra turns to kill. As for bosses/special mobs, I try, contrary to the others, to make the player use more tactic (so use more the elements, conditions, etc), to make it so that the player has to try different approaches than just bashing the regular attack (of course I apply it as well to the other mobs, but the difference in damages will be less pronounced).

That is well made, IMO, now in Momeka's chapter:  most of the mobs we meet take about 2 turns to defeat, sometimes 3, and they don't deal as much damages as they used to in the first version I played, and sometimes you can be poisoned or paralysed.
In Fish's chapter, I often face 4 to 6 mobs, all able within a turn or two to put in sleep/pork/nomed/paralyse my entire party with almost 100% success rate (outchie). So I die in less than 2 battles. And there are an AWFUL lot of battles in Fish's chapter, which is also why I did not put any in my chapter. Since the messages do not pause the rest of the game, the bad guys have time to gather around you and if you don't escape one battle you're basically dead. Maybe I'm just bad at the game or I just don't have any luck and this concerns only me in this case xD

Aside from that, I thought the game overall was great.

I agree with you, parts of the game might need some work. Not sure if that applies for my part as well. If you skip doing the two "side stories" the jump to the sewers might be a bit steep but each city offers new weapons and armors to help you out. As for monsters moving in messages, that can be turned off. The Text Setting command has an option "allow other events to move" that can be used to prevent that from happening.

Right now our game has some pretty darn high elemental resistance and weaknesses going on. meaning that most enemies has some sort of weakness.

[Fisherson]

Why does everyone say my battles are unbalanced? I beat my whole chapter on fair at level 8-11. Now if you're talking about the wing wraith's new 'hide' mode? That's meant to be difficult. =P Though if you pay attention I use elemental balance so most are super weak to logically obvious stuff and some are super strong to it. My chapters are somewhat battle heavy I'll admit but this time I did add more puzzles and stuff to balance it out. Feel free to attempt to balance it though.

[Donut]

Sorry Fish xD
As I said, when you face 3 battles in a row with 4-6 monsters able to put to sleep/freeze/nom/... all of your party in a turn, it's very frustrating because you can't do anything other than wait and die. Even though the other chapters can be somewhat challenging, I did not have this problem with them, even at a relatively lower level (since I ended up skipping most battles in your chapter). Once again, if I'm just the only one having trouble there, I should just reassess how good I am at JRPG xD

[Zoltar]

I like the way Donut talks about how mobs are balanced! I don't do that. I usually just make whatever I like and let the player figure it out or have the party and NPC characters give you hints. It's mondo mean I know but most of my enemies are there to give you EXP and Money and look cool. Bosses  Mini Bosses should always be more though. There should be a uniqueness to their battles that either leaves you screaming out their name in frustration or makes you want to do it again. In this maker it can be mega hard to make that though.   

[Moosetroop11]

Why does everyone say my battles are unbalanced?

I'll give you an example, Fish. When the Goblims take your chainsaw parts, each battle can take like a quarter of your time limit so if you don't pick the right groups you're done for :p I had to grind a lot for you chapter even after I went in and made the water enemies weaker. Also I made a way out of your cave because there was originally no exit so once you're in there, if someone dies, you have absolutely no way to bring them back haha

[Momeka]

Sorry for being so inactive, been preoccupied with work. Where is the chain game at right now? Are you done Donut and if so have you passed it along?

Why does everyone say my battles are unbalanced?

Well, it's kinda the whole point of play testing something. You as the creator will always know the best routes and enemies weaknesses etc. Which makes it hard to get an objective view on how difficult it would be for a new player.
And yeah, I spent like half an hour of grinding to be able to get pass the whole item hunt part. Even after that I found all the water battles to still be way too hard, so I never explored that area.

[Fisherson]

I used the chain saw parts timer based on how long it took me to do it. Maybe it should be more than 8 mins? Seemed too easy then but then again. I know where they all are roughly and which skills will cripple Tinheads and which paths will slow you to circumvent the tedious courses.

The water battles were meant to be harder because there's free money vouchers and a unique piece of armor there.

I am pleased nobody complained about Olokun in all of this though XD Nice to design a good challenging but not impossible boss?

[Prpl_Mage]

I used the chain saw parts timer based on how long it took me to do it. Maybe it should be more than 8 mins? Seemed too easy then but then again. I know where they all are roughly and which skills will cripple Tinheads and which paths will slow you to circumvent the tedious courses.

Well that is probably not the case for a new player. And since you suggest the player to save right before that part - big chance that they can't grind and will get stuck as well.
I managed to beat like 2 groups before the time ran out, made the deduction that those boxes will not be the right ones when I reload either. And then moved on.
But the fact that the tinhead archers has a pretty neat chance to freeze 2 out of 3 characters at the start of the battle is kinda annoying.

And like everyone else mentioned, had to grind to stand a chance against everything you said 8-11, I didn't grind that much. Also ended up taking the treasures from the water by escaping.

Well, it's kinda the whole point of play testing something. [...] to get an objective view on how difficult it would be for a new player.

Also this

[Donut]

Sorry for being so inactive, been preoccupied with work. Where is the chain game at right now? Are you done Donut and if so have you passed it along?


Well, it's kinda the whole point of play testing something. You as the creator will always know the best routes and enemies weaknesses etc. Which makes it hard to get an objective view on how difficult it would be for a new player.
And yeah, I spent like half an hour of grinding to be able to get pass the whole item hunt part. Even after that I found all the water battles to still be way too hard, so I never explored that area.

I'm not done yet, I'll finish it tonight, then will upload and send it back to you and Moose tomorrow. I have put the "pause" of messages  so that in Fish's chapter the enemy can't just gather around you while you speak. I can't seem to make my Chapter image better, I should take some drawing courses xD

[Momeka]

I'm not done yet, I'll finish it tonight, then will upload and send it back to you and Moose tomorrow. I have put the "pause" of messages  so that in Fish's chapter the enemy can't just gather around you while you speak. I can't seem to make my Chapter image better, I should take some drawing courses xD

Sounds good!

[Donut]

Just sent it to you guys
Enjoy!